Show me one TTA or Grand National regularly raced with 100,000 miles on it that hasn't had lots of work done to it! I keep hearing about these inexpensive turbo mods. Alot of people try to rewrite history when it comes to 60's cars. They repeat what they heard or read when they were not there. Go to the dragstrip and see what the most popular engine in fast drag cars is. I can guarantee you it is the BIG BLOCK Chevy engine and for good reasons. If you want a fine Fbod drop a BB in it. If you want to try and keep a one year model the TTA that is fine too. They are fast, but they are by no means the fastest drag car street or strip. And from what I saw at the strip they are very inconsistent. Where's the technology involved in a 6cylinder firebird that weighs as much or more than a big block chevelle or a 60's GTO.

 

Dude, you're smoking crack if you think that it would take $12k for a 12 second car.

 

OK Heres 1.


http://home.swbell.net/gjaws/

and heres a TTA

http://www.hi-psi.com/11secTTA1.mpg

NOW you show me 1 60's BB with over 100K running 11's!!!

 

Who said that TTA was an all out drag car? Show me a BBC that can drive to the track(i HATE trailer queens) rip off a few 11 second runs...and drive home from the track, getting around 20 MPG, sure isn't gonna be a BBC(well MABYE a few but few and far between)

 

What is your problem fly89gta? A few post back you accused me of calling you stupid when in fact I never made any comment on this post mentioning you or with you in mind, but if the shoe fits. I asked for a TTA with 100,000 miles of regular drag racing on it that hadn't been worked on and I am shown an 11 sec. TTA. LOL. How is it running 11sec. 1/4 if it hadn't had any work done on it. Most Indy pace car turbo trans ams are sitting in garages waiting for a sunday stroll. They are afraid to run them hard because they are expensive to repair.

 

Its running 11 sec 1/4 with a stock motor, thats doesnt include bolt on upgrades!!!

Please tell me where you get your facts??

MOST are NOT sitting in garages. They arent Daily drivers but the get drivien and raced just as often as any other collectable car, mine gets run way more than most of your collectible BB 60's cars!!!


How are they expensive to repair?? The 3.8 motor has been around for years and parts are readily available, no more expensive than anyother car.

 

I like how you take a HIGHLY modified car and try to compare it to something that is stock.
and this junkyard 350 that you keep talking about is it really just some junkyard motor or something that was also worked on quite a bit?
can you see someone who is putting all the time and effort to put a V8 in a 280z just put some cheap SBC in there. I know I wouldn't I would want to work the crap out of it and make it run good.
and how much N2O is this guy running also?


ok since you seem to like that 280z hybrid car can you tell us how fast it even ran? and even if the car did win against a TTA does that mean the car sux? I doubt it. if so that would mean that most of your cars suck b/c my modified (not even as much as your 280z) can hang with a TTA and beat your thirdgen cars even your 4th gen cars would have gone down.

that little six banger not last long? my ***
I can easily see that car pull over 150k miles without any major work to it. that BBC running the same speed would prolly have to be rebuilt a lot more often or have many other problems.

the whole cheap thing. you really have no idea how cheap it is to turn up the boost of a turbo car do you? when I had my car up and running I loved home depot it was way too easy for me to get the boost up on my car and to free up power.


show me a BBC chevelle or GTO that runs with 100k miles on it raced all the time that hasn't had a lot of work done to it

ppl try to rewrite history? I dont think so. what they try to do is move on from the past and make things better and more efficient.


and also for the TTA not beng the fastest street or drag car out there. like your BBC is the fastest?
how about oh my a 6 cyl supra running a 9 second 1/4 then turn the A/C on and run his *** home.
can your BBC do that ?
maybe so but it would be a stripped car and nothing you can drive on the street

where is that tech?
do you know how much R&D that has to go into a turbo motor?
it is not just "ok gee lets put this big hairdryer on and lets see how this diggity dog thing runs"
and if that TTA weighs more then the GTO and the chevelle as you made it sound I would say it is doing a lot better since the GTO is what a low 15 high 14 second car running with a BBC and the TTA is only a 6 running low 13's.

 

i thought this was directed towards me...if it wasn't then sorry, but i still don't agree with anything you say lol

 

*** TTAs are amazing. How much money would they usually run for?

 

TTA's are expensive, it all depends on how many miles they have. I've seen one with less then 1,000 miles going for about 35,000$. Thats way outta my price range. Im looking for a 3rd gen, but i have one problem. Maybe some one could help me out here. I can't decide between a TPI 305 5 speed, or a L98 350 auto? Any suggestions?

 

Depending on how long your willing to wait, how fast you want to go and how much you can spend, mine will most likely be coming up for sale in the near future........non turbo'd most likely.

 

Depends on what you want. I prefer 5 speed but from what I heard L98s are faster then 305s. I always think 5 speed makes us look good to the ladies Maybe thats just me tho.

 

I dont want to really get into this pissing contest but I just gotta say that even though the 3.8 in the early 80's to '87 received a bullet proof bottom end, it's the turbo that causes the wear and tear. In all honesty, the BBC's from the 60s were bullet proof too, the 396's in SS cars had forged parts and moly rings. They were tough engines and they did last past 100k.

 

hehe,,,
I dont know where you all r from,,,but here in ohio a 350/350
is absolutely hard to find in a junkyard anyway!!

 

man some people are still stuck on big cubes and the good ol' days. wheres the tech in a big heavy car? are you for real? lets see....intercooled turbocharging for one, dis electronic ignition, sequential fuel injection..do i need to continue? oh and lets not forget air conditioning, overdrive, four wheel disc brakes....how can you compare a bb chevelle to a tta? and most peoples points here is that a helluva lot of gn's/tta's are running hard in the 12 and 11s on stock blocks, never having the valve covers off. i know, i've done it myself. oh and turbos dont cause wear and tear...it soemthing called detonation that can really hurt a turbo car. turbos are know for being easy on parts compared to no2 and super chargers. where do you people get your facts from?

 

Not sure where you got that price but some very LOW mile examples went for LOW mid 20's recently, theres 59K car on Ebay right now for 9K, 10K buy it now!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

And MANY can be found in the 10K-13K range,40-60K miles.

 

I stay away from the hard drugs myself... If you read my post key word R E A D my post you would have seen why I quoted high numbers like that. If you want to run a 150 shot of N2O that junkyard engine is gonna fall apart after a bit... you need to beef that thing up if you plan on keeping the engine for any amount of time... you're not going to find a new engine just sitting in the junkyard.... it's gonna need a rebuild at the very least and to run such a charge it would require some forged internals and you'd probably want to run at least a slightly lower compression... new heads etc etc... I didn't even touch the whole exhaust issue... you'd probably want some nice long tube headers and a true dual exhaust for this 12 second or lower car... $12,000 is a pretty reasonable figure if you want a nice stable N2O prepped 12 second 280z... and it could still have room for improvement at that cost... I don't see anybody else disagreeing here.

I don't know where the 150 shot came from I guess that just popped into my mind, but if you figure 250-300 HP being generated purely by engine, adding a 150 shot just about puts you into the 400 - 450 Hp range...

 

I looked in summit, jegs, and competition products catalogs and I don't see many TTA parts. I do see many SB and BB chevy parts. RX7speed if you ever race a 65GTO or similiar car then you can talk about them, obviously you know nothing about them if you think they are high 14 second cars. Mine ran 13.90 with G60-14 tires easing out of the hole on one two barrel and then easing the other two two barrels open. Next you will be telling me how crappy 3X2 bbls. were because you read it somewhere. 67 chevelle ss 396 only needed headers and slicks to run low 12's.

 

just a little FYI for every SBC part you see there is a TTA/GN part, its just that Summit or Jegs doesn't stock them...there are PLENTY of turbo 3.8 part catalogs.

 

Giovanhalen, IMO you are a close minded ignorant @$$hole. You're comparing something that has almost 2X the cubes to something w/ 1/2 the cubes and you're still getting beat. A TTA is awesome in my book and yes a 60's model Chevelle or Camaro w/ a BBC is granted my respect. I guarantee you however if you look at total cost of maintenance including gas, the TTA will own you, not to mention if you get lost on some backroad somewhere and decide to try to beat it in the corners. Have you ever driven a Chevelle w/ a big block around a corner?

 

How did I miss all of this?Any way you know the answer to your question.

A few more examples of 3.8 motors lasting are Mike(TTA89)and his 11.25@121mph 107K miles bone stock motor(never pulled the throttle body)with just a turbo,injector,intercooler and my friend Ed's(ULYCYC on turbobuick)12.0@115mph on drag radials 145K miles bone stock motor with just a set of bluetops(36#)injectors and a TA-49 turbo.Both have scince had their motors rebuilt for increased performance but I think they prove the point.

And Tony,as for the TTA vs. GNX magazine it's the July 1989 issue of Muscle Car Review.I have a copy,you can look at it next time your here.

Steve

 

low 12's with headers and slicks?!?!?! ha ha ha ha thats funny man. a 396 put down what 200 hp to the rear wheels. your not gonna run low 12 with that kinda power. maybe a 454 0r 427 ho.

 

:rockon::rockon::rockon::rockon:

 

OVRCLCK 350 you are a moderator? More like a namecaller. You are real bad dude calling names on the internet. I am not the one who claimed the TTA was the fastest dragster on the street , I just pointed out it wasn't. The answer to the original question is TTA if both are stock. So how does any of what I said make me closeminded? Matt 87 it only takes a 396 to do it. Maybe you didn't know there were more than one horsepower rating on the 396 and they were only ratings. Like I said a 67 chevelle SS 396 rated at 375hp would run 12's with headers and slicks. Never claimed it would get good gas mileage or out corner a thirdgen.

 

TTA 850 rebuilding the engine is included in woking on the car. I asked for a regularly drag raced TTA with 100,000 miles on it that hadn't been worked on. That includes rearends and trannies. I didn't claim any other car would do it. But some people seem to think a TTA will. I didn't realize there were specialty catalogs with LOW prices like competition products or jegs,just for turbo 3.8's. And I guess they have complete crate engines in them for $3000. How much would a complete 750hp version cost?

 

And thats exactly what I gave you.Mikes car was totally untouched(other than the turbo/intercooler/injectors needed to go 11.2@121mph).His car lasted 104K miles with the original rear/tranny/motor with over 200 mid 11 secong passes before the trans let go.And the motor continued another 3-4K miles and countless passes in the low 11 second range before it started to show signs of wear.

I'm not saying it's the only car that can do this,as I'm sure there are others.I'm just proving you wrong when you say it can't do it.

Steve

 

That's exactly what my friend with a "modded" Civic said before I kicked his ***

I dont know if your post, matt87, was directed at me but I was just trying to stop any rumors before they started which was that BBC from the 60s couldnt go over 100k without a rebuild. Its just not true. I'm not saying that either one is faster than the other one.

The 375hp rating on the 396's was of the gross variable which roughly would be in the 290-310 range. Those BBC cars with their relatively lightweight and reasonable horsepower were good for mid 13's on slicks. I know the 427 Camaros (COPO, Berger, etc.) were 12 second cars.

 

no iroc22 that statement wasnt directed to you, sorry if you thought so. i've come to learn that the 60's and 70's musclecars hp was a little overated and misleading. i've seen with my own eyes many 396's dyno around 200-250 at the rear wheels. even the higher output ones. i dont think a chevelle is gonna run low 12's with only headers and slicks, sorry.

 

Alright I was just making sure. With the gross ratings you can take roughly about 80hp off of that # for the net rating. And I dont doubt that some tested 200rwhp, and not I dont think that a 396 Chevelle will break out of the 13's even with slicks and maybe some traction bars. The 396 is just too small; think of it as a 305.

 

I simply stated my opinon of you. I never saw anyone claim it's the fastest dragster on the street, and you forget street racing is different from drag racing. You say that a Chevelle will run 12's with Headers and slicks. Well, you just made the car illegal on the street, at least around here. You can't run slicks here on the street, plus you just spent some $$$ on that car stock.....not just a lil, but a lot. From what I hear (not personal experience) the TTA's were in the 12's w/ a simple $30 adjustable boost controller. Spend less than 1000 and they were in the high 11's. Street racing is a hell of a lot different than the strip anyday. I see you sitting here bashing the TTA's and defending the 60's muscle cars, and I see you as close-minded. I feel you're just mad b/c a car w/ 1/2 the cubes and STOCK no less is beating your precious Chevelle......

Moderator or not, I still have my opinions of people and it is rare that I express them in a negative manner, but you, sir, I feel are a complete @$$.

 

let me get my turbo running
I only have a motor the size of a metro
lets see how that will hold up to a BBC.
hell I will even remove half my plug wires and turn my A/C on and I should still be able to pull a low 13 pass

 

I ran a GTO in my rx7 once in a freeway race. he just edged on me but not by much. I was running a 15.2 avg at that time with a best of 14.8
he didn't even have a full car one me. and by the time we hit 90 I was starting to gain on him

now you go about talking about how your cars are so great cause more cubes means more power
well he just about got beat by someone running ONLY 80ci. now big cubes help yeah, but does that mean they are the only way to win a race?

and as for you running a 13.9 what did you have slicks on, or some other mods? most ppl I hear about with the GTO seem to run only 14's if you are using street tires stock. now if they put mos on them that is another thing.
and hey again I say let me get my turbo working again I can run prolly high to mid 11's with some more boost and better tires then 205/60/15's
so much for your chevelle with slicks and headers.

 

ok, I had some clever material, but my damned ISP decided otherwise. I'll clear the air a little though. I said earlier, that "as a rule of tumb" the TTA will beat just about anything in a street race. This is as I said a rule of thumb, which means that if you have a question like: which will win? a TTA or (name a car)... you can keep the question to yourself unless the car you want to compare it to is extremely fast. I think a bunch of us remember Hi-Po-Ny... he had a low 16 second mustang II and thought he could take a TTA... not worth asking!!

So, giovanhalen was obviously trying to instigate a fight, because he was not reading what I said how I said it, rather how he thought he could interpret it so as to **** some people off and start a good old internet brawl. We all like Muscle cars on this site... there is no reason for us to fight... I think you've overstayed your welcome giovanhalen, either get a new name and don't ever tell us it's you or just leave us alone.

 

ChillPhillCat you stated it would beat anything on the street except for $40k cars. I never put down the TTA but there are many cars racing on the streets cheaper than $40k that can beat it. When it comes to street racing nowdays you better bring something real fast. Too many people running Nos and aftermarket superchargers. I don't race on the streets anymore ,what is the point? Fastest car wins period. I bracket race where the driver has alot to do with who wins and run on wednesdays just for the feeling. Also race on motorcity online, though I just started. When you street race no one cares how big your engine is, what gas mileage you get, how many miles it will last, or how much you spent on your car. You win, that is the end of the story. I didn't try to instigate a fight but it ain't hard with the pride some people have over a certain car. I am not narrow minded enough to worship one car. RX7 the rotary is a whole different animal and you can't compare cubes with a reciprocating engine. Multiply the size by 3 and it might be close though. I don't consider a freeway race to be a dragrace it is a good way to get in an accident though. And chillphillcat no snotnose kid will tell me when I am through using this website. It is only used for amusement right now, but when I had a thirdgen it was useful. Never know when I might buy another one, although I probably won't.

 

High Performance Pontiac just ran a nostalgia article in which they drag tested a then new 1969 GTO, and it went low 14s. then, they played with the carb and got some high 13s out of it. The car was a four speed manual and had good factory gearing.

 

Yes and the 69 is heavier than a 65, mine weighed 3540 lbs.

 

Well not enough for that much difference!!!!!


NOW where are your examples, I provided you with 2 , 1 T type and 1 vid of a TTA.

Look we all like the older muscle cars but they arent all that. I owned a 68 GS with a 455 moderately built and my TTA would dust it at the track period and on the street.

L8R