What do you think about an LB9 vs. an LT1 ?

A guy I work with has a '97 Z28 and I think my LB9 can beat his LT1 in a 0-60mph race. I'm sure to get waxed in the quarter but what about a 0 to 60 between my '91 Formula and his '97 Z28 ????

His only mod sofar is a cold-air kit that works surprisingly well (I'll have to spray it with my wife's hair-spray before the race eh ?).

Sofar he has made a sub 14 run at St. Thomas. I haven't made any runs at St. Thomas. My mods are cold air, some porting, and pullies (and a Jacobs ignition if I can ever get the freaking wiring worked out). He has a 6-stick and 3.42, I have a 5-stick and 3.42.
His factory power numbers are 285/325 mine are 230/300 (gulp).

So he figures he'll wax my butt. I figured we'd have a race where he'd have to pass me and we'll clock the speed I am going when I get passed. Do you think I'll get to 60mph before I get passed ?

Comments ?

RP.

 

aren't 4th gens lighter than our 3rd gens? So more power, less weight... I think you will lose, not by much though. Do you have exhaust on your car yet palric?

 

I have to go look at the door sticker to be sure about the weight -- it seems to be when I bought the car I remember seeing 3150lbs on a document which really surprised me. I know the '91 Formula is one of the lightest f-bodies for your performance buck. I am pretty sure the Z28 is in around 3500lbs.

The T-56 in the '97 Z28 weights about 350-375lbs. My T-5 weighs roughly 70lbs. I have no cladding and hollow sway bars. My rear fin is made of carbon fiber -- if you lean on it it will crack.

My exhaust is factory dual cat with 3 inch outside diameter which is suposedly 2.75 inside ? Low mileage I think the cats are not yet clogged up (I make sure to light them up atleast once per trip... if you know what I mean ?).

Mine is a lighter car and has the right gears. The car is in top tune and pulls 5500rpm no problem making power all the way. Fresh injectors too. I think that with the Jacobs system installed (the wiring harness is supposedly on the way) and the other stuff I am going to make about 320lbs torque. Might make it a race after all eh ?

I've driven the Z28. It still pulls hard where the 305 starts to fall off at about 60-70mph. Up until then I think my Formula pulls about as hard.

RP.

 

my money is on the 4th gen. dont forget i could only run 14.4 at st thomas. how well could you keep up with me

 

I've been talking about racing a whole lot more than I've doing any racing, atleast lately. I have no idea how I'd do -- I've read that my factory time is 14.65. Have to have everything go right on that trip eh ?

Keep in mind I am trying for 0-60 not 0-95 or 100 ? I think I'd need trick heads, headers and an aggressive chip to take on a 4th gen in the 1/4. I've seen mid-13 NA 305s before. It can be done but I'd have to say it is hard on a stock the bottom end. Better to B&B the rotating assembly which begs the question why not upgrade to a 350 instead ?

About your 14.4 -- I think there is something wrong with the setup. Your motor shakes at idle and I've seen TPIs running as much as 222 degrees at .050 on the intake that did not shake. My '88 had 217 degrees on a 305 and it didn't shake even with 12 inches of vacuum, had reasonable overlap/LCA numbers as well.

If you are at 300hp and 350lbs torque and that should be easy for your setup (see yah on dyno day) and if your car hooks up you should be trapping around 13.9x times.

In other words if your car is running right -- and I am not convinced that it is -- you should have half a second on me ?

RP.

 

14.65 stock eh? I'll have to check that number out... seems a little low.

 

thanks palric... now if you could tell me what the problem is, you could save me a lot of time. I too think that my time are too slow. and i have a bad detination problem. so bad that i have base timing set to 0. i am still working out the bugs. but if you want to lend a hand come on over

 

Better get that detonation problem fixed.. or you will be doing another engine rebuild by next year. Have you checked you knock sensor functionality?

 

well if i have to do it again i will deffinitly go 383.

the only way i can think of testing the knock is with a laptop or scaner. I got all my parts to make a cable for my laptop to read it so i should be able to do it later this week. Is there another way to test the knock?

 

I don't know the sensor parameters, I just take my car to the dealer for diagnosis. You may want to check in the PROM board, or even the TPI board, and ask what the knock sensor is supposed to do.

The way the engine was running at idle, it seems like it has a miss... Should've came to the drive in last weekend, Chris had his laptop and plug there, you could've checked it then..

 

He brought the laptop for me. so we could do a scan...but somthing came up and i was not able to make it out

 

Seems abit low to me too. Picked the number up off either a tech article on the BIG board or theformulasite. Can't remember which. I would have thought 14.7'ish. Doesn't matter to me, the car pulls whatever it pulls next time I am at St. Thomas I'll find out and that will be my 'time'.


RP.

 

Ok, my apologies talk is cheap. I can't make it out to your shop for a few weekends yet either. Here are some thoughts....

1) I'd want to test the manifold pressure at idle. I am wondering if you are running low on inches ? Maybe 11 or 12 ? That is alot of cam and we would need to find out the LCA, overlap etc, and x-ref this with the manifold pressure @ idle test results. If the MAP is low then you need to talk to Ed Wright or somebody who has dealt with this before and might be able to burn a solution in a prom. If this is the case then your MAF is the reason your car still drives -- my SD system would fall flat on it's face you went too far outside the calibration map.

Does the motor shake when cold (open loop) ? Does it get worse during closed loop ? THis test points to a prom issue. If you do a WOT run when cold (open loop) does it accelerate well then when hot (closed loop) does it like to surge (prom can't find the right co-ordinates, block learn is failing) ?

2) can you test the EGR ? I have some pinging under load and WOT and I have been told by the shop that this is my EGR -- everything else checked out ok so they want me to spend $90 to test their theory. It makes sense though. If your MAP is now lower than before it may be exaggerating a faulty EGR ? In my case the engine does not shake.

3) try posting on the TPI board fore anyone who has done your cam/compression/head combo. Maybe someone has been there and done that already -- just have to ask to find out ?

4) have you dome a thorough visual on the engine bay ? Are you sure there is nothing amiss ? When my injectors were going bad the engine ran rough and behaved poorly at part throttle. The ECM was firing properly but was receiving WAY TOO much fuel and didn't know what to do so retared the timing then advanced it then tried to lean it then enrich, etc.

Bottom line is your engine is a big performer on paper -- just have to iron out the kinks. When are you doing your next troubleshooting day ? I can try to meet up.

RP.

 

i made a post on the big bord it is what i got https://www.thirdgen.org/techbb2/sho...hreadid=111163

i am still looking into what nate said about the knock sensor. i would discribe the shack but it would be a lot better is you just seen it. i dont see any dif. if the engine is cold or warm. but pulls better when its cold. i just passed the etest by a mile and i have not codes say that there is a egr problem. i dont think that is the problem

 

I read the stuff on the link. Most of them are pointing to the CAL map. It is likely just that but I would still do a complete review of the system even vacuum leak testing -- unlikely as it is. Guess I am trying to say make sure it isn't some simple mechanical issue before you start pouring money into it again.

I'd like to help with the scan+prom dump when you get setup.

RP.

 

[QUOTE]Originally posted by trigger GTA
i made a post on the big bord it is what i got https://www.thirdgen.org/techbb2/sho...hreadid=111163

i am still looking into what nate said about the knock sensor. i would discribe the shack but it would be a lot better is you just seen it. i dont see any dif. if the engine is cold or warm. but pulls better when its cold. i just passed the etest by a mile and i have not codes say that there is a egr problem. i dont think that is the problem [/QUOT

How much knock count and retard do you get??Is the IAC set correctly?When does the shaking occur?If you need your car scanned let me know..I have the laptop,cable and Moates software up and running..FYI My cam is bigger than that and it doesnt shake..
Daz

 

i dont know what knock count and retard i am getting i still have not scaned it.
the shake is at idle. it does not seem to idle very well. i have not changed the IAC setting

Daz where do you live. if we could get to gether and run a scan that would be great.

 

Im in mississauga... i suggest adjust minimum air(IAC) then go rom there..(usually comes with a TPS setting change too)..

Daz

 

Hey Daz, can you post the specs on your cam and the cube size or your motor ? Also, any idea what manifold pressure is at idle ? Did yours run great outta the box (idle, driveability) or did you have to burn your own stuff to make it work right ? This info will help me as I plan my engine build.

thx,
Richard.

 

I still have to check my manifold pressure is at..My cam is the Comp Cams 08-305-8 220/230 dur .510/.510 lift at .05 and 114 separation..Its only this week that Im using a custom PROM..Ive been running the stock chip even with bigger injectors(SVO) and 9th injector blocked..I was getting a MAF error before but gutting the screens seemed to have fixed it..Im still new at scanning and burning..I shouldve done it even before my mods though..

The Moates software,Dell P233MMX laptop and AKM cable worked out of the box
Daz
87 IROC L98
3.27 Auto MAF

Daz