Ok, first I was told that I would get tested at 1980 standards cause I'm having a fresh 383 replacing my 5.0. Now he tells me that i'll be tested as regular. how can the justify that? He says cause its still a 350 block and they came with a 350 in 1987.
But a 383 is not a 350, by any means. I took pictures of all of the internals and have receipts and documentation. Does anybody have any dealings with such things as this? I need opinions even if it is just .02 cents worth. Also I'm near Ottawa and we're just starting E-testing, is there any shops around T.O. that you guys deal with that give you a break on visual inspection, i mean i have nothing left from the original TPI, but the Cat. And now I'm carb.

 

I'm totally guess here, but I don't think it has anything to do with the block itself. "Hot Rod" status, at least from my understanding, was anything that differ from the original displacement. Therefore a 383 should qualify. Perhaps the guy up there is unfamiliar with the finer details.

 

I don't know anymore. Its this guy thats taking the e-test course for his co-op, but i hope he's wrong. I would have to pretty much put my TPI and all the E stuff back on the 383, which I would rather not.

 

I'm pretty sure if you have hot-rod status you can get by the whole e-test. Now as for testing, its based off your VIN number and that is what the car is meant to test against so you can't win on that point. Your only hope is to get it to qualify under hot-rod status. So I'd do a bit of research as to see what defines hot-rod status in Ontario and ensure your car fits that bill.

I just did a quick search here's the official definition

"Hot Rod" means a motor vehicle in which the original motor has been replaced with a motor of a type not installed by the manufacturer on that model of motor vehicle for the model year designated for the motor vehicle by the manufacturer."

That is so vague that the only interpretation thus far is put in a different block that isn't the same as the model year. As far as the arguments go that would mean a 350 in a 305 would count, but then again if that year had 350's available to it that year, it wouldn't count. Now this is confusing...

 

I seriously doubt most places will be **** enough to check and confirm casting numbers on your block. This is just based off what I know about shops here in town. Tell them its a 383 and should be a hot rod as a 383 was not offered for that year. I bet 95% of the places out there will take your word and test it at 80's levels. If not, tell them its a 400, 307, 283 or 327 etc.

I had my 86 TA tested, and I told them it had a 350 installed in place of the 305. It still had the stock LG4 305 in it, but they ran it as a 350 anyways. The levels for the LG4 were actually higher than the 80 Hot Rod 350, so it would have been easier to pass if i let them test it as the stock motor. However, I was missing emission parts, so I needed the hot rod status to pass the visual. This was at the Chev dealer in Brantford.

 

Kevin,

you said that LG4 levels were higher than the 1980 "Hot rod" 350. do you have info as to what the passing level for emissions tests are for different motors and different years?

any help would be appreciated.

 

Slade1's definition is accurate.

Problem is- who's to say you have a 383 in the vehicle? If they want to check a casting number it's still a 350 block. Bring your rebuild receipts to exemplify the point that it is no longer a 'factory' offered engine- but a totally different animal in the same casing.

"type" becomes the debatable term- i.e. in an '81-up smallblock- the oil dipstick was relocated to the passenger side of the engine- pre-81s had the dipstick on the driver side. Does this mean that you have a non-factory "type" engine if you put an older 350 block in your 198x vehicle that offered a 350?

These interpretive terms used in the wording are intentional- and how they are interpreted depends on the shop you are dealing with.

As an example- in Toronto now (where the testing started 3 years ago)- an e-test is much like a vehicle certification- 50% of it is 'interpreted' by the mechanic/inspector. I.e. a number of the items on a vehicle certification are a matter of opinion where there is no definable 'minimum standard' for wear/tear- i.e. a ball joint has a wear indicator- if it's bad-it's bad, a tie-rod does not have an indicator and relies mainly on the mechanic's opinion of what is 'too much play'. As well- even when a part related to a certification is in question- i.e. a balljoint is 'near' the throw away point but not technically 100% 'bad'- many mechanics will still refuse to certify the vehicle. The amount of interpretation that goes on in a vehicle certification is both shocking and surprising when you look at it.

Emissions testing is the same thing- test agent has to decide the 'strictness' of his interpretation as to what is 'stock' or 'hot rod'. When testing- will they advance your timing or lean out your idle to give you a pass? Or tell you the excess HCs must be eliminated by rebulding your carb? Interpretation, interpretation, interpretation.

Most legitimate shops in Toronto now, 3 years later, have grown comfortable with their ability to 'interpret' and may not be very strict unless they really want to 'stick it to you'- where initially most 'interpreted' things very much against the vehicle owner. Crooked shops of course, always try to 'stick it to you' because they have an excuse, just like on vehicle certifications.

In summary, if your local guys won't 'interpret' things the way you'd like- go somewhere else. If necessary- get the testing done in another locale (ie Toronto) where the shops are more 'comfortable' now that they have 3 years of experience in this...be sure to point out though that you have a $200.00 cap as your car is registered in the Ottawa area.

 

I guess that's the key. I wouldn't go to crappy tire due to its inherantly by the book nature. Besides, the one near me is run by people I went to high school with in auto class. Now that's a scary thought. Back then I was top of that class, but didn't pursue it. Now they work there as licensed mechanics??? I have nightmare's about leaving my car to them.

I personally have a midas shop nearby who's tester is damn well dedicated to making your car pass. Well considering I purchased a dynomax cat from midas (albeit when I was in California), they really are proud of the work of all their stores. I've watched him go through the sequence, and he's gone over some of his definitions of hot rod status and kit car and standard and will test on your word or with significant documentation receipts etc. I was amazed that when done right, my test pulled off less than half the standard required for my vin. Testing at GM got me a conditional only and I paid for 2 tests. The guys at the midas did the test twice for free after getting a good look at the setup and seeing my bill for new o2 sensor, injector cleaning and test at GM which still failed. find a shop that does testing and has your trust.

Some key points to remember.

The cat must be fired up real hot or readings will crap out on you.
take her out for a blast or leave her idle for like 20 mins befor test.
The engine must be hot, so fans on at 170 will f you over.
The engine must be in its most optimal condition (debatable)
I passed my test with 6 month old stock wires, distributor cap and 3 days just after an oil change with 94 octane fuel.

 

dont even bother with the door ***** just take it to someone that will test it as a hot rod. I had no trouble when i took mine in. you should also be able to pass with out any problems as a 350 if
your engine is new

also you will be well over your $200 cap with all your work that WILL count. so by alright you dont even need to pass the test

 

I can't remember the levels exactly. When i bought the car in Feb01, the shop could not get it to pass. They gave me one of the results and after I did some work to the car and got it to pass, I compared the LG4 test and hot rod 350 test. The LG4 was allowed to have slightly higher emissions output than the hot rod 350.

A shop that does emissions testing may be able to pull up the levels required to pass for an LG4 car and a hot rod 350 car if you were to ask.

Also I have a question for everyone else. I'll need to retest my car inorder to get a sticker for it when its running again. Since i just put a new exhaust system and headers, can I use those reciepts for the $200 conditional pass? I'm not sure if it's going to pass with the motor thats in there now, so if i know I can get the conditional with these bills, it would be one less thing i'll have to worry about.

 

The don't think that will count, but I think you can get a mechanic to slide it. If all else fails, do a test at GM and "encourage" them that the cat needs to be replaced... that alone is a $500 part charge and gets an immediate conditional pass

 

Ok guys, here's the thing. This guy i know works for a shop starting to do E-tests, so they sent him to the e-test course. Before he said that I would get Hotrod status. Now he says that cause its a 350 casting on the block, no matter what the internals are it's still a 350 block and will be tested as so...stock. I think that is total BS and am not going to his shop because of it. What do you guys think? What kind of argument could i put up. And I do have full documentation of all internals and of pre 70' block.

If worse comes to worst, maybe you guys have a friend in T.O. who performs these tests. I would be willing to drive the 5 hours if I could find a shop that would help me out(not in an illegal way, but legit). I still have my CAT, but I cut off and removed the tube that heats it up, will my CAT not work now, or will I just have to run it longer to work?

 

-Just a note- there seems to be some confusion here:

The 'caps' ONLY APPLY if the work is done at a licensed/approved emissions test&repair (test AND repair- not test only- there is a difference) facility.

-You can dump a million dollars into your car in your driveway- and not one cent of it will count towards the 'cap'.

SOME shops will install parts you provide (i.e. an EGR, Cat. whatever) and bill you for labour- the labour counts towards the 'cap'. SO if you've been thinking about a new intake manifold and EGR- go buy them, take them to the test/repair centre and make sure they're clear that they have to run the initial test (which presumably you will fail) and then they can do the $200.00 worth of labour (they must also enter pricing for the parts- which may not have been provided by them) do a retest and then you meet your 'cap'. Note- this is, for the most part, also a discretionary thing.

Think of one of the main purposes of this testing as being an excuse for a garage to get the 'cap' amount out of you if you will not pass legitimately without extensive modifications/rebuilds- you determine how you will pay the 'cap'- useless parts that won't affect the end result significantly or engine/fuel/ignition upgrades you have been meaning to do anyways and pay them labour for install...