The car is done! Everything is hooked up and IT WON'T FLIPPING START!! I've got good spark - new cap, rotor, pick-up coil, plugs, ignition module and remote coil. It'll spark to ground all day long.
Here's the fun part - I put some new Accel 24 lb. injectors on and the rear-most injector on the passenger side is pissing gas everywhere! I put the fuel-pressure guage on and I had to turn the AFPR down to about 45 psi but the fuel rail won't hold any pressure. As soon as I quit turning it over the pressure slowly drops to zero - in about 15-20 seconds. It looks like I have a leaky injector!

So what do I do? Put the 19 lb injectors back in or is there something I can do to get this 24 lb injector to work? I'm still running the 305 prom but I have a 350 prom on the way. I just wanted to get the ***** started so I could set the TPS, IAC and timing.

I get it put together after 2 years and now it looks like I have to tear the SuperRam out to get to those STOOPID injectors!

TPI really pisses me off sometimes!!

 

The fuel rail will take moocho pressurer. Put a few drops of Dexron (with eyedropper if necessary to get to the fuel rail locations) into the injector seets and rotate injectors. After 2 years the "O"rings may have dryed out. This should stop the "pissing". If it's taken 2 years, use some of that patience. Probably something very simple.

 

Am I supposed to lose pressure like that?

Has anyone else experienced this crap with aftermarket injectors?

 

Is it visably pissing gas everywhere?

Or do you mean leaky injector as in the pintle isn't closing?


The fuel rail should hold pressure for quite a long time.

I know mine has for more than 2 hours

 

As much as it sucks sounds like you have to take the pizza box back off and fool around with the injectors. i tend to think its an o-ring leaking as well. Ive had that problem. One thing you might do though is when you have the box off, get your injectors plugged in and then turn the key as if your getting ready to start it that way it will prime the rail and you can check for leaks that way without putting it all together and finding it happen again.

Be careful you dont snag an o-ring on the fuel rail and tear it. ive had that happen too.

Good luck.

 

That's sounds like a great idea!

Thanks!

 

If you pull the box (plenum) you will need new gaskets top and bottom. You can prime the pump with the ignition key on and rotate the injectors with a drop of oil as stated above. Cheap and dirty, but usually works without removing the "box". Why spend the money for gaskets when you may not need to? The rail holds only a couple spoon fulls of fuel. ONE pissing injector can relieve pressure very fast. Once get get the leak fixed, have someone try cranking while you slowly rotate the distributor in both directions. Hopefully it'll start and you can get everything adjusted. Be prudent!

 

http://www.actron.com/cgi-bin/web_st...=8158569_14129

some other people might want to get ahold of one of these, its a fuel injector/harness tester, it makes testing the injectors easy once you have them out, normally its a 100 tool in their garage sale its only 20 takes em about a week to get stuff to ya, I had to get a new pickup for my timing light (freakn headers! and plastic pickup) saw the garage sale stuff and figured why not, may come in handy some time, when you get the fuel rail off you can turn the key on to get the FP primed and with the tool you can test each injector, MAKE sure you have a cup or something under each one, especially if you think one is leaking,
HTH

 

I am running the Accel 24# injectors and they work great. If you have gas comming out of the engine at that injector you either have a cut or shrunken O-ring. If you can't swell it with a little ATF or even mineral spirits, then the only other thing to do is yank the top back off.

~M~

 

Monte-ss thanks for the heads up on the tester I just ordered one.

 

I just ordered one too.

 

Anybody actually use this paticular tool yet?

 

I have used one similar to it before, havent had a chance to use this one yet.

 

Any tool that will help my present situation would be great. I'm going to get new o-rings for my injectors. I know they're brand new but I'm not getting a good seal on these.

 

I'll definately be getting one of those injector testers. Injectors have always been kinda of a mystery. How many times have we suspected a bad injector, but had no way of testing them without sending them off.
Looks like a well spent $100.
Anyone got $100?

 

if you look at the listing one page previous to the injector tester they have a MAF tester as well, dont remember how much it goes for

 

A friend just bought accel 36 lb injectors from summit, and you could blow air through on of them straight through. He had to send them all back and get another set. I've heard this from more than one person, but before seeing it, couldn't believe it.

Pull the offender off and see if you can blow air through it with your mouth. That's all the help I can give, besides checking the o-rings and the injector boss for the correct size.

 

Well, the car has to be parked for a week anyway. I have to go up to Fayetteville to do some work on Bragg and Pope and be there all week. Hopefully the tester will be here by the time I get back. I'll pick up some GM o-rings too - I've heard that they are actually bigger than the ones on the Accel injectors. Might as well pick up some new c-clips for the injectors since I'm still using the stock ones and I want to eliminate as much crap as I can.

 

Hey Poppa, make sure you coat the new "O"rings with a small amount of Dexron transmission fluid before installing. Makes them a lot easier to install and minimizes the chance of tearing them. You may get a small puff of smoke when you fire it up but it's worth it.

 

A common problem with the Accel injectors is plastic casting flash underneath the o-rings.
I heard about it and when I got mine I checked, and sure enough there was some.
Pull the o-rings off and look where the yellow plastic meets the metal ends and see if there is some flash extending under where the o-rings sit.
I just used my fingernail to scrape it off, and had zero leaks or problems with mine.
Hope this helps.

 

Thanks! G O D, I love this site.

 

Okay, here's an update! I was out of town for 2 weeks and the car sat until this last weekend. I yanked the 22 lb injectors and the o-rings were all chewed up. I put the 19 lb ones back in and re-assembled the possessed IROC. Good fuel pressure - 44 psi. Doesn't drop off at all. I have lots of spark. But it still won't start.

Question - Is there some way to pull codes without a scanner? I want to say that there is a way to paperclip the ALDL and have the engine light flash codes for you. Anyone know??

I just don't understand why she won't start now. Is it still possible that it might be flooded from 2 weeks ago??

 

yeah paper clip from A to B on the ALDL connector, to make sure I think I remember seeing a post about it in the tech articles, but as the ALDL is mounted with the to "ears" that point out the sides if those are on top then its the 2 top left most pins

 

WERD!

Thanks, Monte!

 

although without it having actually ran yet I dont think you will get any kind of codes out of it other than say if you had the MAF and it wasnt connected I think it reads that right away but only after it actually started and ran for a few seconds

 

Are the injectors pulsing? Try this.
Disconnect one of the injectors and put a 12v test light across the connectors of the harness and crank the engine. The light should flash as you crank. Then check each of the terminals to ground with the light, it should be on with both terminals.

If the injectors aren't pulsing the ECM may not be seeing the ref pulse from the dist.

~M~

 

I don't wanna sound like I'm stating the obvious here, but, I had the very same problem when I did my engine swap.
My motor would start with a shot of starting fluid, but would quit when the fluid was burned up.

Turned out to be a loose plug on the back of the distributor.

There are 2 plugs back there, the 2 wire plug goes to the coil, the 4 wire plug goes into the ecm harness, this is the plug that controls the referance pulse for the fuel injectors.

If both these plugs are seated and tight try swapping in an ignition module that you know is good.

I only mention this because those plugs are very easy to overlook, I tore my hair out for an entire weekend before I stumbled on the loose plug.


Hope this helps

John

 

That's a great idea, in fact it could be better to try to spray some gas through the injector. It should only open when grounded by the ecm, so if anything squirts through you'd know it was bad. You could just connect the fuel lines to the pump, turn the key to pressurize the lines with the injectors not inside the intake, and watch for drips.

Poppa,
When you put the injectors into the intake and into the fuel rail, coat the o-rings with motor oil. This will allow them to slip in easier, so they don't get torn up likes your ones did before. It also helps them seal. How did you set the timing?

 

Pulled the valve covers and rotated the crank (PITA) until neither the intake or exhaust valve moved at 0* TDC. I indexed the distributor and screwed the dist. cap back on. I started turning it over and adjusting the timing and I couldn't get poop out of it. I thought maybe it was 180* out but it's not. This is aggravating.

 

Okay, people, what about the ESC or the knock sensor - what if they were bad? Would I be having these problems? Is there a way to safely bypass the knock sensor? I tried to find a new ESC module locally but NO ONE had any in stock. The dealer her blows - they never have anything I need.

Still have 45 psi of fuel pressure.
Still have spark.
Still turns over with no hitches.
Still won't fire up.

 

if your getting fire then the ESC should be fine, the knock sensor should only change things once its running which all it changes is the actuall ammount of timing, with all that you have said you should be getting a running engine, have you tried a little of the starting fluid down the intake to see if that gets it to fire off or do a compression check, if your not getting any compression then maybe the valves are a little too tight. I would think by now all the other mechanical things like cam timing all have been rechecked more than once, sounds like just take a breather recheck the basic things and go from there
\Good luck

 

Make yourself a Noid light. Take a 6 volt flashlight bulb and solder
wires to the center and outside then hook the two wires to an
injector connector. Hook a wire to the purple wire comming from
the module in the distributor and tap it on the positive battery
terminal. This will cause the coil to shoot spark and the noid light
to flash. If you get spark but no flash from the noid light, check for
12 volts on one of the injector wires. The injectors are hot with
the ignition on and the ECM pulses them to ground.

If the noid light don't flash and there is power at the injector
connector the ECM may be bad

 

Also, the TPS and IAC are not set. I was under the impression that the car would need to be running before they could be tuned. Is this right or am I shooting myself in the foot??

 

tps can be adjusted without the car running, and if you do a search on exactly how to adjust the IAC I think the car has to be running to get it set, but the IAC would have to be way off to not get it to work, and the TPS may cause problems but Im not sure, unless its reading less than .5 volt at idle, or closed throttle

 

If the TPS isn't set properly the car won't start. Ask me how I know! Get it set and try it again, may not be your problem. Do like the rest of the guys said and make sure the injectors are firing too.

 

Poppa Chubby is HAPPY!

Found out why the car would just turn over and never catch - I set the valve lash wrong!
I overtightened every rocker and had poor compression. I had a friend help and we reset the valve lash and it started right up - and then died. Started then died. Started then died. It did this for about 10 minutes as we adjusted the distributor. Then I got a wild idea and pulled my MAF out. The car started right up and idled. My MAF is bad! But I don't care because the car runs! At the end of the night I was able to pull the car back into the garage under it's own power!

Question - the Wells(?) MAF sensor - does anyone have the part #, prices and a retailer that sells them? I need a new one SOON so I can start tuning the *****-ROC!

G0D this feels great!!! 2 years and 34 days since this car last ran!

 

WOOOOOOOOOOO HOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I know that has to feel awesome!! if you have the MAF unplugged it should run still, the computer sets to a base setting and will run like in a limp home mode but still runs decent enough as long as its unplugged so before you go buy one Id double check everything else again! for the 90th time like you already had haha

way to go, now just get it tuned and you'll have to let us know!

 

Pick your MAF here.

http://webepc.com/cgi-bin/sewse?/hom...pc10.cmm+world
~M~

 

W00T!!

Thanks Morley! $166 and it will be here within 4 days! I can't wait!

 

 

What's the angry face for? SHE is one! Takes all my money, gives me a few moments of pleasure but she won't hold me afterwards. And my wife is SO jealous of the time I spend with her.

I found out that I didn't press the new power steering pulley on far enough. It needs to be pressed about 1/8 inch more. The belt jumps a groove on that pulley. No big deal. Get my new MAF in and I'll set the timing and mess with the fuel pressure and she should be running. Then I have to register it again - tags have been expired for 2 years now and she's still wearing Guam plates.

I need to get my wheel spacers so I can slap on the new rims and tires. The top needs a little massaging as well. About another 2 weeks and she'll looking and running good.

 

Okay, the car is running and I have the new MAF in. It still revs when I start it and then dies. I disconnected the MAF burn-off(?) relay and the car idles fine after starting. WTH is this problem??
With the car idling I have re-connected the relay and then the car revs to a high idle and then dies. Has anyone else run into to this problem??
WHAT'S WRONG WITH MY CAR?!?

 

There is a wiring problem with the relay. There is a wire shorted
to ground or power. Check the wires as far back as you can.

Did you do anything with the wiring when it was apart?

 

No, but the car IS 13 years old so who knows how well the wiring has held up. I guess I'll start tracing wires tonite and see how lucky I get . . .

 

First try swapping the relay with a known good one. IF the
problem continues then check for shorts.

 

That's where I am at right now. I got a brand new relay and swapped it in and no change. I shorted A and B on the ALDL and it popped up with a Code 33 - MAF sensor. I'm going to pull out the Haynes and Chiltons tomorrow and grab my multimeter and start tracing wires. What a pain!

 

weeeeeeeeee.

 

I posted this a while back for someone else. Run through it and it
will find your problem. There is a section that verifies the MAF
burnoff relay.

Code 33 tests.

First check air ducts for cracks, holes and tighten clamps.

With the ignition off, unplug the MAF and apply power to ALDL terminal
"G". Check the red wire on the MAF connector for power. If no power,
verify 12v on relay connector orange and white/tan wires. Verify the
connector black/white wire is grounded. Verify black wire from MAF
connector terminal B to ECM connector A11 with an ohm meter. Verify
red wire from relay connector to MAF connector with an ohm meter.
If all is good replace MAF power relay.

If not---

Turn ignition on, Check MAF connector dark blue wire for 12v, if so,
unplug MAF burn off relay and check again. If so, check relay
connector black wire for ground. If so, the black wire is shorted to
ground or the ECM is bad. If not, replace MAF burn off relay.

If the dark blue wire at the start of the above test had no voltage,
check the MAF connector dark green wire with ignition on for a 5v
reference signal. If so, and all connectors are good, replace MAF.
If no 5v reference on dark green wire, verify it from the MAF connector
to ECM connector B12 with an ohm meter. If the wire is good replace the
ECM. If the dark green wire has 12v on it, turn ignition off and unplug
the ECM connectors. Turn ignition back on and check again, if so,
it is shorted to power somewhere. If not, and all connectors and
grounds are good replace ECM.

This test will also repair code 34

 

Swapmaster, you rule. I found that post when I did a "search" late last night and printed it out along with a post that Vader made. Do you know of anyone that has a GOOD under-hood relay diagram - there aren't any in the Chiltons or Haynes and I'm kinda guessing on what's what. Also, I've been reading about people adjusting the voltage levels on their TPS to accomodate the change in MAF and TB. I'm running the Wells MAF and a 52mm TB - from what I've seen this is going to cause "low flow" to be seen at the MAF and it'll then send out a code 33. Is this right? Should I turn up my TPS level a little to account for the change in air flow?

 

I know nothing about the Wells MAF or what problems it causes.

The Chilton repair manual I bought has all the wiring diagrams
for third gens. The book is for 82-92 Firebirds, I think I got it from
Napa or Big A.

I could try to take a picture of a schematic and post it up tonight,
don't know if that would work very well or not, guess it's worth
a try.

You need to get with someone who was a Wells installed and
see what problems they had to work out to get it to run right.

I may be possibe that the Wells is causing a false code 33.