305sbc

iTrader: (3)

What were the other intake pieces on your 406?
anything else stock like the TB?

DannyT

I don't think your headers are holding you back either. You've see my results and I'm running the Edelbrock TES headers which are even smaller.

BuckeyeROC

Ditto.

Raiden

I too am having lack of HP problems for my set up. My settup is very similar to Buckeyeroc. I ahve the stock intake ported lower and plentum and the slp large tube runners and a zz3 cam. My Z ran ok for 3 weeks after the rebuild, then it opened up like BAM. Almost as if i had a loose ground or something in the exhaust poped out??? I blew a head gasket a few months later after I put my supercharger back on After I replaced the head gasket, the car runs fine, jsut lacks power again??????? I'm stumped! tomorrow, I'm checking to see if the timing chain was installed correclty? A builder built my short block adn I didn't check it. After I verify that my cam has not jumped a tooth, it's wide band time? I have no idea but will keep you informed if I come up with any results

Paul Riccioli Jr

iTrader: (1)

Yeah keep us posted...could be interesting

305sbc

iTrader: (3)

Get some diacom or scanner data of a run and see how your fuel and timing are doing.

86irocL98

you need the wideband readings to know for sure whats going on...i would say more ignition, blaster 2 coil, 6al, get the superconductor wires, all the air and fuel can be dumped in but without a good spark its not gonna do a whole lot, you need those widebands it is definitely a tuning issue...

DannyT

Do you have roller rockers? I know it's not a cure all but they'll help. Your heads should have upgraded valve springs (or double valve springs?) to allow for a good set of 1.6 RRs.

Paul Riccioli Jr

iTrader: (1)

I've got 1.52 roller tip rockers.

MikeH

iTrader: (10)

305sbc....The car had a 58mm TB, Stock SuperRam base, plenum and runners. I did have problems with the heads and exhaust. I think when i go back I would like to try a pull without the air box.

I did have a blocked exhaust (melted cats) adding more air into the intake side wont help if it doesnt breath on the exhaust.

Bort62

You know, I am a little late on this one and Im not gonna bother to read the whole thread, But I will say one thing.


MAF RULES!

lol

Your probrably making bout the power my Lg4 does

Raiden

I've pretty much tried everything. I have a laptop with CM software...shows nothing out of the ordinary. Revomved Aircleaner, nothing. I have a crane hi6s with retard. Tried it with a new coil and without,,,nothing! Wide band time once I verify that my timming mark is on tonight!

pennylessz28

Here is a happy thought, maybe the same guys that dyno'ed me, who are dumb asses, dynoed you...



That cam seems a bit small to me

Paul Riccioli Jr

iTrader: (1)

Ok so I talked to the guys are CarTek today and this is what one of them suggested:
More chip tuning
Different cam....224/230 .502/.510 (higher with 1.6's) 110 LSA
Port and then Extrude Hone Runners and Baseplate
Port and maybe Mill Cylinder Heads

What do you guys think of that cam for this setup? Other than that everything else makes sense to me.

BadSS

LOL - stir it up Ian - dude has problems and it's not because it's a MAF car.

Paul, don't change a fricken thing on the car until you get what you've got right. You'll just **** away even more money making changes that you may or may not need.

Absolutely - do a compression leak-down check,, I know it's a new engine, but they can have problems too. If you've got alot of variance between the cylinders or more leak down than you should,, then nothing you could do will put the power where it should be without correct that first.

If that checks out OK - Take the car to someone that knows what they're doing and pay them to find the problem,, but don't let them sell you anything else until you see the numbers you should be seeing----- OK,,, if you have the dual outlet Flowmaster,,, change that,,, but nothing else - lol.

Der91Z

iTrader: (1)

for future reference, I would get the CC306 cam if i you got a 383, that is if you're staying NA. I prefer to stay with a 112LSA for a tpi car.

Raiden

Something is up!! we have similar problems. AFR rated my setup at aprox 450 fly wheel hp. I am not seeing anything close to that! When my Z opend up that one time prior to my head gasket blowing, it was running F A S T. Have no idea whats up? my timming gear checked out a ok? relashed the valves. No change??? Wide band time, which should tell a lot......I hope. Please keep me infomed of what you find!

IROCZ1989

iTrader: (1)

I bult a motor a coule of years ago Paul,and I can tell you its in the tuning,dont throw any more money in parts into this motor.Here was my setup:
355
9.1 compression
Afr 195 heads
Comp cams 305(same as yours)
1.6 rollers.
Forged Gm crank ,Eagle rods and TRW dished pistons

Dyno:was on carb,but shows the potential of the motor

400hp at 5500 rpm
410lbft at 4500
was still pulling hp when it was shut down.Was built at procells in TX.
You have a great setup,that cam makes great power and the idle it not as ratty as the 306,as big as I would go for street driven.Its in the tuning,or you have some vacume leaks to work out.Got a bigger intank?This is just my opinion but maybe you should consider a DFI or Fast,playing around with chips can be frustrating and not to metion could wash the rings right out of a new motor like yours if not broken in properly with a motor not running efficently.I know there are some cars running good on stock computers,but it is much easier in the long run with a aftermarket system.

Raiden

What ever the problem is, I would bet my paycheck that we have the same problem! One other symptom i have had is that in stop and go traffic, my car slowly gets hot..HOT>>>HOT? It creeps up from 220 deg and up when it is 80deg plus outside and in rush hour traffic. It's fine if it's not hot out in rush hr. traffic? But I did vierify that my cam is set corectly, thought the valve timing might be off. NOPE! My next venture is to the dyno shop to have a wide band test under load. Probally next week or two? Keep ya posted Paul!

Paul Riccioli Jr

iTrader: (1)

It's quite possible that we have similar problems, however my temp has rarely seen above 180 even in the summer.

89Formula350WS6

What about the fact that some dynos always give lower numbers?
(Flowbenches too!)
They say you can't really compare numbers from one to another without testing on both.
I've seen numbers be off by over 50 HP at the flywheel on race BBC engines that were ran on 2 different engine dynos. I bet that chassis dyno numbers can vary even more.

Jekyll & Hyde

Double

Raiden

Naw, I have yet to dyno and i KNOW my HP is way down from where it should be! I'm sure Paul is in the same boat! Or similar car

Paul Riccioli Jr

iTrader: (1)

Yeah I knew from the onset that my car felt slow. I was just hoping it was a figment of my imagination.

TheWraith

paul, i'm not sure if you're aware of this, and i didn't even read the post thoroughly to look into it, but GMHTP magazine has a very similar buildup to yours. Theirs is a 396 stroker with the AFR 190's and a superram. They are running ACCEL DFI.

They are running a lot more cam than you are. Don't have it in front of me but it was a lot more duration, like 226/236 iirc correctly, about .536 lift, and 114lsa. I'm also guessing they have the slp 1 3/4" headers.

so you clearly could have gotten away with a lot more cam than you went with.

Their car is currently making 337.7hp and 445 lb-ft at the rear wheels.

Of note though is that they dynoed the car with the stock intake tract and the MAF in place even though it wasn't hooked up because of the DFI setup, and they had 323 horsepower. They dynoed again with an open throttle body and they made 354 horsepower. The 337.7 hp is with a ram air setup they made with a big cone filter and a custom bent piece of 4" exhaust pipe from the cone underneath the car to the TB. So theres 31 horsepower tied up in the MAF air intake tract.

I have all the back issues so i'll take a look and see if there's anything else of note, like if they dynoed with the maf harness, etc.
But i figured their buildup might be a good frame of reference

TheWraith

ok, i dug up all the articles, and found some info that might be of interest to you.

The cam specs are:
.536/.544 lift with 1.6 rr's
duration at .006 is 276/281
duration at .050 is 224/230

the lsa is 114.

they are running SLP 1 3/4" headers.

they got it running and dynoed with a stock MAF computer and a custom chip and made a whopping 226 rwhp.

They switched to ACCEL DFI 7, and a few hours later with some tweaking were making 323 rwhp, and like i said in my last post that was with all the stock air intake stuff and a MAF inline even. They went to open throttle body and jumped up to 354 rwhp.

so they uncovered 50% more horsepower by ditching the stock computer and air intake.

No doubt they could have gotten a good portion of the 97 hp back with a bunch of trial and error chips, but is it worth it? i have a used accel dfi setup i got for $500.

let me know if you want me to scan the articles for you paul.

GofasterFirebird

iTrader: (3)

Yeah, that is true if DFI tunes itself. I just dont see the "trial and error" chips being that much worse. Finding a used DFI for 500 is not typical of what most people could find either. I do not think that Magnum TPI is a good example because it runs worse than the sum of its' parts.

Paul Riccioli Jr

iTrader: (1)

I could live with those kind of numbers. I'll definately have to do some tuning and I'm also going to keep my eyes open for a Wells MAF since they are supposed to flow more than stock.
Does anyone know if they are the only aftermarket MAF's that flow more air than the stock ones?

TheWraith

well yeah, there's the tuning issue, but then again what are you gonna pay someone to do a bunch of custom chips trial and error way? If you have the prom tuning stuff yourself, then i'd definitely say it's more than worth it to play around with the stock stuff. There are a lot of people with more than 300 rwhp doing just fine on stock computers.

I'd personally recommend going speed density though vs maf, because there's no way around the 255 cap on the maf reading period. But if you're gonna pay someone to do custom chips, vs doing the DFI and paying someone once to dyno tune it, i'd pick the dfi, and then playing with the DFI further is only a matter of hooking up a laptop, and playing with values, and you can very easily go back to another program if you mess up.

And yeah you're right about Magnum TPI. I personally think even 350rwhp on something that desktop dynoed out to be over 400rwhp is pretty crappy.

But Paul is right there too.. His setup is not doing what it should be either.

oh and as for cheap setups:
there's a DFI 6 for $650 in the classieds here with a laptop, the map sensor for boost and a laptop to run it all even

and there's a dfi computer with jumper harness for a thirdgen in the camaroz28.com classifieds for $400.

and there's one up on ebay for $500 with not too much time left.

they are out there now, the older harnesses especially since everyone is so anxious to go to dfi 7 and FAST because of the windows interfaces, etc.

TheWraith

nothing that can't be run without a costly signal adapter, which i'm not even sure anyone is making signal adapters for TPI cars in the first place. I know they're out there for turbo buick cars.

MikeH

iTrader: (10)

Hey Paul....I just got the April issue of CHP. Is that your white IROC in the show place section?

Paul Riccioli Jr

iTrader: (1)

Not sure...my issue is at home and I'm at school. I'll have to call home later and find out...it would be sweet!! What's in the background of the picture??

MikeH

iTrader: (10)

Thats your car! I was just looking at your website, Its the same picture thats on the front page of your website.

Congratulations... The white paint looks so clean, hottest car in the whole issue. That SuperRam would look so good if it was polished.

Paul Riccioli Jr

iTrader: (1)

SWEET!!!! My copy is at home but now I guess I'll have to go to the local Quick Check tonight to pick up a copy or two. How big is the picture and what page is it on if you don't mind helping me out?

MikeH

iTrader: (10)

Page...123, there are two pictures, the body shot is about a 3x5. One of the larger pictures in the section, the under hood shot is smaller.

Are those 17" rims on your car?

Paul Riccioli Jr

iTrader: (1)

Yes they are 17's as a matter of fact.

I'm very pissed though....I went to 8 different stores trying to find the magazine and nobody had it.....and it's snowing like crazy here. I had to borrow a friend's VW and I almost wrecked it!! Tomorrow I will have to check out Barnes and Noble.

Paul Riccioli Jr

iTrader: (1)

Ok well after searching my entire local area I can't find the magazine anywhere. I'm guessing maybe the April issue won't hit news stands for a few weeks???
If anyone has a good digital camera or scanner can you send me a file with the article and pictures??

MikeH

iTrader: (10)

That sucks...I was wondering if it would be on the stands yet. IM at work right now, but when I get home I can send you something.

Paul Riccioli Jr

iTrader: (1)

Thanks

85TPI400

I saw your car in the issue too! Looks great, I think it should have been featured instead of the 91 Camaro that starts on page 54, I guess I am not a big fan of TBI cars with nice stereos!
Also they made a typo and said you have AFR 180s, and forgot to mention you were dissapointed with the dyno#s. (just kidding)!
Tony

bigals87z28

paul, im gettin a copy of it, can u sign it for me? hehehehe good job on the CHP mag man... keep it going... wait i just thought.. my dad sent me up a bunch of mags. in my package up to school...omg i gotta go... peace!

Paul Riccioli Jr

iTrader: (1)

hahahah yeah but you're more concerned with looking for all the porno mags in that package.

As far as the disappointing dyno results, I'm just waiting for March. Another guy I talked to picked up 150 hp with a dyno tuned chip. I know I won't get that much out of mine, but 1/3 to 1/2 that would be great!

I still haven't found the mag anywhere.

D's89IROCZ

WOOOOOHOOOOOO .... congrats man !!:rockon:

how the heck did you get your car in that MAG !? It totally should have been the featured ride !!!!!!! I can't wait to get the 17" wheels !!!!!


:rockon: WTG

Raiden

Paul,

did you figure you lack of HP problem out? I don't buy magizines anymore..except it they show females neked :P JK! I purchased CHP in honnor of another Z28 brotha! I'm changing my plug wires today and then making an appointment for my Z to go on the dyno and wide band. Will keep you updated asap!

C

Paul Riccioli Jr

iTrader: (1)

Raiden unfortunately being at school kills my time for working on the car. I will not be able to touch it until the first weekend of March. Let me know how your dyno results turn out though.

Raiden

Paul,

Forgot to add,

NICE RIDE!

Raiden

Well, Paul and I are having similar problems. I would not be stressing so much, however, my car did open up asif a ground contacted or something expelled from the exhaust suddenly. I have checked everything. I went to the dyno and had a wide band done. perfect air fuel! I just changed the distributor, NOthing changed! What next?

Paul Riccioli Jr

iTrader: (1)

Raiden can you repost your numbers and your engine specs again??
Thanks

Raiden

Slp intake runners ported intake plentum and base to match, Ford 24lb svo injectors, ADFP, AFR 190 heads, ZZ3 cam, Forged internals 355 CU, edlebroc tes headers, 3in cat back flowmaster kit, crane hi 6s ignition. I have a supercharger on but decided to get the car running right before i put it back on...smart move!

MikeH

iTrader: (10)

Raiden....Have you done a compression check? Too see if you are having any problems with the head gaskets/rings sealing? Are you having problems with detonation? What caused the head gasket to blow? Are you loosing any coolant?

What about the exhaust have you checked to see if there is a restriction somewhere?

Both my cats melted and blocked the exhaust. My car would surge really bad under power.