A Few Tpi/vette Questions
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Joined: Jan 2003
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From: st. louis missouri
Car: 88 S-Dime
Engine: 388
Transmission: 700r4
A Few Tpi/vette Questions
i am in the process of doing the lt1 intake swap. i was told that i can re-use my afpr from my original tpi set-up. this doesnt make sense to me- i think i need one for an lt1 correct?
also- i have the 113 casting vette heads and the magnesium valve covers from an '88 vette (i think thats what year they are from). what roller rockers can i use without having to do any grinding on the underside of the valve covers for clearnance?
i dont have a throttle body from an lt1- should i find a stocker from an lt1 or get an aftermarket 52mm- i am assuming the 58 would be a little large for my 383.
also- i have the 113 casting vette heads and the magnesium valve covers from an '88 vette (i think thats what year they are from). what roller rockers can i use without having to do any grinding on the underside of the valve covers for clearnance?
i dont have a throttle body from an lt1- should i find a stocker from an lt1 or get an aftermarket 52mm- i am assuming the 58 would be a little large for my 383.
For the LT1 intake questions...go to www.lt1intake.com
I believe his name is John Millican. Should answer those questions.
You can get some narrow bodied roller rockers from Crane. I think they are expensive. Some people don't grind with the Comp Cams Pro Magnums. What's wrong with a little grinding anyway?
I believe his name is John Millican. Should answer those questions.
You can get some narrow bodied roller rockers from Crane. I think they are expensive. Some people don't grind with the Comp Cams Pro Magnums. What's wrong with a little grinding anyway?
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 244
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From: st. louis missouri
Car: 88 S-Dime
Engine: 388
Transmission: 700r4
grinding in some aspects of the word is completely ok
however after the money i spent to keep the corvette theme going in my s-10- to get these damn valve covers- i dont wanna take a grinder to them.
ok- got my rocker question figured out- going to buy the crane gold rockers. also got my afpr figured out- bought one for an lt-1.
now my final question- 52mm or 58mm? i am thinking 52mm. the i have done a little porting on the intake and heads- nothing radical. and as i mentioned before- its a 383- rather than 350. i have never read or heard of many streetable cars that needed or saw the benefits (*SP?) of a 58mm. and i think in order to keep the engine looking as stock as possible- i will send my 48mm to tpis or something of the sort and have it bored. any thoughs or suggestions?
however after the money i spent to keep the corvette theme going in my s-10- to get these damn valve covers- i dont wanna take a grinder to them.
ok- got my rocker question figured out- going to buy the crane gold rockers. also got my afpr figured out- bought one for an lt-1.
now my final question- 52mm or 58mm? i am thinking 52mm. the i have done a little porting on the intake and heads- nothing radical. and as i mentioned before- its a 383- rather than 350. i have never read or heard of many streetable cars that needed or saw the benefits (*SP?) of a 58mm. and i think in order to keep the engine looking as stock as possible- i will send my 48mm to tpis or something of the sort and have it bored. any thoughs or suggestions?
As far as looking stock, that's a personal preference.
Also, some will boast of the 502 Crate motor coming with a 48mm throttle body and still making a lot of power. I believe Mike Crews went from a 52 to 58 mm throttle body on his LTR 383 TPI system and gained .2 seconds. Maybe he went to 58 from a 48, I don't recall without doing a search. Anyway, if you go Aftermarket, I would recommend the 58mm. It won't hurt performance if the bigger bores aren't needed (From what I have read), but be sure to port match it to the LT1 intake.
Also, some will boast of the 502 Crate motor coming with a 48mm throttle body and still making a lot of power. I believe Mike Crews went from a 52 to 58 mm throttle body on his LTR 383 TPI system and gained .2 seconds. Maybe he went to 58 from a 48, I don't recall without doing a search. Anyway, if you go Aftermarket, I would recommend the 58mm. It won't hurt performance if the bigger bores aren't needed (From what I have read), but be sure to port match it to the LT1 intake.
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Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 552
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From: Annapolis MD
Car: 87 Vette 85 TA 82 Z/28
Engine: 3 - 350's 388 400
Transmission: 2-700R4's 1 T56 Setup!
Axle/Gears: 2.59's 3.42's 3.73's
Originally posted by smithtc
As far as looking stock, that's a personal preference.
Also, some will boast of the 502 Crate motor coming with a 48mm throttle body and still making a lot of power. I believe Mike Crews went from a 52 to 58 mm throttle body on his LTR 383 TPI system and gained .2 seconds. Maybe he went to 58 from a 48, I don't recall without doing a search. Anyway, if you go Aftermarket, I would recommend the 58mm. It won't hurt performance if the bigger bores aren't needed (From what I have read), but be sure to port match it to the LT1 intake.
As far as looking stock, that's a personal preference.
Also, some will boast of the 502 Crate motor coming with a 48mm throttle body and still making a lot of power. I believe Mike Crews went from a 52 to 58 mm throttle body on his LTR 383 TPI system and gained .2 seconds. Maybe he went to 58 from a 48, I don't recall without doing a search. Anyway, if you go Aftermarket, I would recommend the 58mm. It won't hurt performance if the bigger bores aren't needed (From what I have read), but be sure to port match it to the LT1 intake.
there is a forum member and moderator named 69myway on www.corvetteactioncenter.com that is doing this mod now on his 85 383 stroked vette that you might want to read and pick his brain while this is fresh. just do a search for him or on this topic. LT1 intake on a L98 Engine
here is the link to the thread...
http://www.corvetteactioncenter.com/...threadid=33127
good luck!
Just some related info on the topic...
Posted by grumpyvette from another post:
Posted by grumpyvette from another post:
DO I NEED A 58mm OR 52MM THROTTLE BODY on my TPI 350 to get better performance"
I get this question about once a week in my E-MAIl
ok time for a math lesson, please try to follow along,(yes Im well aware some of you know even more than I do, but this is for the new guys)the stock throttle body flows about 670cfm,
your 350 in the vette has a stock cam that has about 210 dur and lets be even more generous and say the heads flow 210cfm and your TPI intake also flows 210 cfm (to keep things simple, trust me, your stock heads, intake and cam don,t flow that well combined) now that means that at a steady flow rate with all the ports open at max cam lift for 360 degress of engine rotation that possiable durring the intake stroke your flowing 210cfm per intake port, correct (again being very generous) now in a standard stock engine theres 360 degees available in an intake cycle if the valve never closes (bad for the compression stroke) so about the most those ports can flow if the valves open instantly and stay open the full 210 degs at max lift is 210cfm/360 degs x 210degs the cams open or about 122.5 cfm x 8 cylinders=980cfm but since those valves open and shut durring the cycle your only able tp flow at about 65% of the max for a flow rate of about637cfmthat well under the stock throttle bodys flow,
lets look at it from a second angle, your TPI 350 spinning at about 5500rpm (where it starts to run out of airflow big time) if the cylinders fill completely on every intake stroke(which remember is every 2nd stroke)is 350cid x 5500/2=962500 cubic inches or divided by 1728 to get cfm=557 cfm
now even if we add a 30% better flow due to exhaust scavageing, and ram tuning the intake pressure waves and a more realistic 35% reduction in intake flow due to the valve needing to open and close ,(not being instantly fully open the whole time)thats still an average of (557+637=1194cfm+10%=1313/2=656cfm ,is about max the engine can useand in the real world its slightly less in a stock engine, and thats not counting for airflow volume losses due to heat expansion or restrictive losses due to the screens on your M.A.F if you still have them and are not running a speed density TPI or the air filter restrictions or the catalitic converters partly screwing up the exhaust scavageing.
now for the good news,unlike a carb system that relies on air flow to carry the fuel air mix, EFI can and does run better with a max possiable intake pressure behind that intake valve, adding a 52mm or 58mm throttle body will effectively add slightly to your potential air flow and reduce the systems airflow restrictions and unlike a carbed system its extremely difficult to add a throttle body thats so large that it screws things up,so if you want to add a larger throttle body ,go right ahead, it may not help (on a stock engine) but its almost never going to hurt either, but after much testing Ive got to say, if your talking about a stock engine spend your money on a 383 stroker kit, better heads,a better flowing intake manifold, headers, and a larger cam in the 220-230 durration range before worrying about a throttle body restricting your hp!
I get this question about once a week in my E-MAIl
ok time for a math lesson, please try to follow along,(yes Im well aware some of you know even more than I do, but this is for the new guys)the stock throttle body flows about 670cfm,
your 350 in the vette has a stock cam that has about 210 dur and lets be even more generous and say the heads flow 210cfm and your TPI intake also flows 210 cfm (to keep things simple, trust me, your stock heads, intake and cam don,t flow that well combined) now that means that at a steady flow rate with all the ports open at max cam lift for 360 degress of engine rotation that possiable durring the intake stroke your flowing 210cfm per intake port, correct (again being very generous) now in a standard stock engine theres 360 degees available in an intake cycle if the valve never closes (bad for the compression stroke) so about the most those ports can flow if the valves open instantly and stay open the full 210 degs at max lift is 210cfm/360 degs x 210degs the cams open or about 122.5 cfm x 8 cylinders=980cfm but since those valves open and shut durring the cycle your only able tp flow at about 65% of the max for a flow rate of about637cfmthat well under the stock throttle bodys flow,
lets look at it from a second angle, your TPI 350 spinning at about 5500rpm (where it starts to run out of airflow big time) if the cylinders fill completely on every intake stroke(which remember is every 2nd stroke)is 350cid x 5500/2=962500 cubic inches or divided by 1728 to get cfm=557 cfm
now even if we add a 30% better flow due to exhaust scavageing, and ram tuning the intake pressure waves and a more realistic 35% reduction in intake flow due to the valve needing to open and close ,(not being instantly fully open the whole time)thats still an average of (557+637=1194cfm+10%=1313/2=656cfm ,is about max the engine can useand in the real world its slightly less in a stock engine, and thats not counting for airflow volume losses due to heat expansion or restrictive losses due to the screens on your M.A.F if you still have them and are not running a speed density TPI or the air filter restrictions or the catalitic converters partly screwing up the exhaust scavageing.
now for the good news,unlike a carb system that relies on air flow to carry the fuel air mix, EFI can and does run better with a max possiable intake pressure behind that intake valve, adding a 52mm or 58mm throttle body will effectively add slightly to your potential air flow and reduce the systems airflow restrictions and unlike a carbed system its extremely difficult to add a throttle body thats so large that it screws things up,so if you want to add a larger throttle body ,go right ahead, it may not help (on a stock engine) but its almost never going to hurt either, but after much testing Ive got to say, if your talking about a stock engine spend your money on a 383 stroker kit, better heads,a better flowing intake manifold, headers, and a larger cam in the 220-230 durration range before worrying about a throttle body restricting your hp!
Senior Member
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 552
Likes: 0
From: Annapolis MD
Car: 87 Vette 85 TA 82 Z/28
Engine: 3 - 350's 388 400
Transmission: 2-700R4's 1 T56 Setup!
Axle/Gears: 2.59's 3.42's 3.73's
i know grump from www.corvetteactioncenter.com
he is very knowledgable. BUT some have said after switching from a 48 mm to a 58 mm tb throttle response isn't as crisp as it was with the 48. look at www.TPiS.com and call them up and ask what TB to use on a stock motor. they'll say 52
he is very knowledgable. BUT some have said after switching from a 48 mm to a 58 mm tb throttle response isn't as crisp as it was with the 48. look at www.TPiS.com and call them up and ask what TB to use on a stock motor. they'll say 52
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Thread Starter
Member
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 244
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From: st. louis missouri
Car: 88 S-Dime
Engine: 388
Transmission: 700r4
i found a descent price on an LPE cam- but i am thinking it may be a little much for my set-up, what do you all think- its LPE# 74219
Engine Type 86-92 L98
Camshaft 74219
Intake Exhaust
Lobe Lift .350" .350"
Dur @ .050 219 219
Lift 1.5 ratio .525" .525"
Separation 112 112
Engine Type 86-92 L98
Camshaft 74219
Intake Exhaust
Lobe Lift .350" .350"
Dur @ .050 219 219
Lift 1.5 ratio .525" .525"
Separation 112 112
Last edited by TPIs-10; Sep 25, 2003 at 12:41 PM.
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