TPI Tuned Port Injection discussion and questions. LB9 and L98 tech, porting, tuning, and bolt-on aftermarket products.
Sponsored by:
Sponsored by:

Got new motor running, weird TPS problem now...

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old Sep 15, 2004 | 07:05 PM
  #1  
92blue's Avatar
Thread Starter
Former Sponsor
iTrader: (1)
 
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 1,081
Likes: 3
From: Florida
Car: 1992 Camaro RS
Engine: Yet another 350 TPI
Transmission: Borg Warner 6 spd
Axle/Gears: 3.73
Got new motor running, weird TPS problem now...

I sorted out my no start problem with everyones help about a week ago. School started, and I've been busy, but I made some time this afternoon to work on the car. I found a bin from someone with a very similar setup to mine, and reworked my bin to come closer to the one I found. Not a copy of that one, just a middle ground in values between it and the stock AUJP. I basically took some fuel out of the lower VE table, and added some timing. The difference in fuel was quite significant by the way.

Turned the key, and the car started right up, idling super nice at 1200 rpm. It was alot smoother than I had ever expected to come right off the bat. I went to set timing (had the timing light set up already), and I was pretty close. Timing was at 12 deg(tan wire disconnected, A&B ALDL terminals jumped), whereas the chip has the base timing set to 10. I set the timing to 10 degrees, disconnected the timing light and killed the engine. Started picking up a couple of things, as I had a mess of tools everywhere, and then went to start the car again.

This time, it was running rough, and wouldn't idle on its own. Whereas before it stayed at a constant 1200 rpm, now it was trying to run at about 1000, but would die. It threw a code 22, for low tps voltage, as well as 43, but thats a separate post.

So heres the problem...Grey wire to TPS has 5 volts, Black wire is properly grounded. However, with the key on (verified that 5 volts are being supplied to the TPS sensor again), there is nothing on the blue wire. It reads 0 volts all the time. I moved the tps around quite a bit, and it remains zero. Checked the connection at the ECM with a wiring diagram and they matched. If I recall correctly, its at F13. Now here is the weird thing. I can get the blue wire, and supply current from the battery lets say, and it will read 12 volts, so there is a closed circuit. After I did this, I realized that it may not have been a good idea, since the ecm only sees 5 volts, and I just fed it 12.

From what I understand, it seemed like the sensor was bad. Since I have three TPI setups lying around, I tried another tps sensor. Same thing. I tried a third one, and it did the same exact thing. No voltage on the blue wire. What do hell is going on?
Reply
Old Sep 16, 2004 | 08:18 AM
  #2  
bobsroc's Avatar
Member
 
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 179
Likes: 0
From: Whitehouse, Ohio
Car: 1987 IROCZ
Engine: 305 TPI
Transmission: 700r4
First thing I would do it the basics, your car is idleing way to high for a couple of reasons for sure. Look over all vacuum connections/hoses for cracks/leaks. Also insure they are routed to the correct locations and are all there. Next check/adjust your fuel pressure, ball park numbers here, 48-50 PSI with vacuum off, then check the pressure with vacuum on should drop to around 42-43 PSI. If it does not, you have an issue.

How check/adjust IAC and TPS:

Idle Air Control
Tools needed:
Torx bit # T-20
Paper Clip
Small Punch
Take the paper clip and open it up and form it into a big "U" shape. Insert the clip ends into the ALDL in the 'A' and 'B' pins.
Turn on the ignition, but don't start the engine. Wait 30 seconds. Now, go remove the connector from the IAC. Remove Jumper Start engine, Put jumper back in A-B. You are now going to adjust "minimum air". There is a Torx screw on the side of the throttle body. This is what needs to be turned to adjust minimum air, or more commonly known as "idle speed". It comes from the factory with a protective metal cap over it. If the cap is still there, use a small punch to knock it out. Set the idle speed to 450 rpm, rotating the Torx screw clockwise to raise rpm, and counter-clockwise to lower rpm. Once the idle rpm is set, turn off the engine. Re-connect the connector onto the IAC. Start engine. Idle speed is now once again governed by the ECM, but your idle should be smooth and steady, approximately 600 rpm in Drive

Throttle Position Switch (TPS)

Tools needed:
Digital Volt-Ohm-Meter (VOM)
Jumper Wires (make your own)

With VOM wires: Read voltage acrossed the top and middle wires in the TPS connector. at idle position with key in RUN position, it should read .54vdc.If out of spec, loosen the two screws holding the TPS to the throttle body, and slightly rotate the TPS up or down, reading the voltage until it comes into specification .54vdc. Tighten screws. Using the throttle lever, rotate the throttle to WOT (wide open throttle). The TPS voltage should be over 4.0 volts. Close the throttle again, and then slowly open it to WOT, observing the voltage reading. It should increase progressively and in a linear fashion. If it sticks or jumps or falls off at all while doing this check, that could mean a bad TPS switch and could be a cause of stumbling and driveability problems. After setting the correct voltage, turn off ignition switch.

Now set base timing, normally recommend to stay between 0-6*, remove the ESC connector during this process so ECM is out of the picture. Note, you want the timing set as low as possible, closest to TDC as you can and still maintain is decent idle. Shut off car, reconnect the ESC connector. If you set an SES light by having the IAC?ESC connector disconnected, then after shutting down the engine, disconnect the negative battery terminal. Wait 5 minutes. This will clear the ECM of all trouble codes. Re-connect the battery and drive the car for 20 minutes to allow the ECM to relearn your driving style.

All this will get you in the ball park if all sensors and injectors, etc. are in working order. Remember, these are ball park, you might need to tweak them for best proformance and your motor combo. Hope this gives you a leg up on your troubles.

Last edited by bobsroc; Sep 16, 2004 at 08:26 AM.
Reply
Old Sep 16, 2004 | 04:49 PM
  #3  
92blue's Avatar
Thread Starter
Former Sponsor
iTrader: (1)
 
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 1,081
Likes: 3
From: Florida
Car: 1992 Camaro RS
Engine: Yet another 350 TPI
Transmission: Borg Warner 6 spd
Axle/Gears: 3.73
I think you misunderstood the post. Thats partly my fault, as now that I read my post again, I failed to mention this is a new engine, and the tune is pretty far off I'm sure. The issue I am having is that there is no signal coming out of the blue wire from the TPS. I have tried 3 different TPS sensors, and the same thing happens. I have reapeatedly verified with the key on that I have 5 volts to the grey wire, and the black wire is properly grounded. I can't set the TPS to the given voltage in the prom because it always reads zero.

As far as the idling high, the engine was cold when I started it, and so it ran at about 1200 rpm. As it warmed up, it started going down just slightly. I haven't set minimum air yet because I need to have the engine at operating temperature, and thats not happening, as it only idles temporarily.

Vacuum lines are all new, and I have checked them several times already. Fuel pressure is at 46, and holds for quite a while after.

The whole TPS thing is making no sense to me. The connector to the TPS is in great shape, no cracks, plugs right in smoothly, and the contacts aren't corroded or damaged.
Reply
Old Sep 16, 2004 | 06:32 PM
  #4  
bobsroc's Avatar
Member
 
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 179
Likes: 0
From: Whitehouse, Ohio
Car: 1987 IROCZ
Engine: 305 TPI
Transmission: 700r4
Ok, do you want me to measure the vdc off my TPS and report those numbers back to you, would that help? Not sure, have you ever checked the voltage on the TPS as I dicussed earlier, not trying to flip you flack, but it is difficult to get the meter to read. You really need to jiggle and push the probes of the VOM to make a connection, on the TPS plug, measure top pin to the middle pin should be .54vdc. I leave the TPS connected and push the VOM probes thru the back of the TPS connector to make contact with the PINs. Is that how your doing it. I don't understand where you are getting 5vdc, and I don't know the voltages from each pin to ground, as I said first, if thats the readings your looking for I will need to check them that way and report back.
Reply
Old Sep 17, 2004 | 12:12 AM
  #5  
92blue's Avatar
Thread Starter
Former Sponsor
iTrader: (1)
 
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 1,081
Likes: 3
From: Florida
Car: 1992 Camaro RS
Engine: Yet another 350 TPI
Transmission: Borg Warner 6 spd
Axle/Gears: 3.73
I've checked TPS voltage before, its just that I wasn't getting anything at all above 0 volts this time. The 5 volts I was talking about is the power wire that goes to the TPS (top grey wire). I was checking that one to make sure the TPS was receiving power. I also checked the bottom black wire to see if it was properly grounded. Both of those checked out fine, so it was very odd that I wouldn't get a reading w/ three different sensors that I tried.

Anyways, I worked on the car this afternoon for about an hour, and I was able to get a signal. I still don't know what happened yesterday...I hope its not an intermittent problem. Before anyone says it, yes the Voltmeter was on the right setting (happened to me once a long time ago, kinda embarassing actually). I went ahead and set it to .45 volts, just under the .54 you were mentioning.

Thanks for your help though. I appreciate your effort to see what your car reads on the voltmeter.
Reply
Related Topics
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
Ghettobird52
Tech / General Engine
16
Jul 5, 2024 11:18 PM
jhawkeye
Engine Swap
5
May 25, 2022 06:33 PM
Azrael91966669
DIY PROM
25
Jun 20, 2017 04:04 AM
theshackle
Tech / General Engine
4
Mar 5, 2017 06:37 PM
Spyder_TheGamer
Tech / General Engine
1
Dec 25, 2015 05:07 PM




All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:29 PM.