Hey guys i really need some advice, im going to order heads for my 383 as soon as i can get a clear ideal of where to get them
. I have done a shearch and from jd preformance where most people get these heads they only sell them in a 74cc ,,, when i need 68cc so does that mean i will have to get them milled down? then from what im reading the springs that come in afr are not great on cam lift over .500 ? right or wrong ?

My setup is

383 with flat or dished piston cant remember , engine deck at 0
lt4 hot cam

my guestion is,,, is there a place i can order #1040 afr 195 heads,, that is the l98 angle 68cc head, from online,,, ,,,that will accept and work with my hotcam and allow me to put on 1.6 rockers,,,

how is everyone else doing it ?? i heard prices from 1200-2000 grand,, doesnt seem to be any set price from anyone.. Some people called up afr and ordered them but they seem to turn 1200 heads into 2grand heads,,

Im allso confussed with the stud and girdle options,, for these heads?? 1.6 rockers --- self align or not?

one more guestion is what vaule cover options do i have for afr heads ,, i could not find any information on what will work with these heads, im kinda looking for people expericences not what a company post on there website of what should work


Anyone have a nice ideal on a combo setup,, for 195 heads, 1.6 rockers and vaule covers.

i have no plans on putting in a bigger cam,, if i can get close to 400hp on a n/a motor i will be happer,, then later i can add a ATI if i crave more power.

sorry if my post sounds dumb,, im not real technical when it comes to the workings of internal motor/heads ,,or if i asked guestions that i missed in doing a shearch on the boards, but im kinda in a time crunch before cold weather hits.

allso what is the time in weeks on ordering afr heads, from you guys experince,,,, the trickflow cnc dual spring heads, at my doorstep in 4 days from summit is really saying BUY ME,, not only becuase of the time issue, but allso the simplicity of getting heads rockers and vaule covers all from the same company,but i know in the long run afr heads are much nicer from what i read,,

thanks again in advance if anyone wants to give me advice.

 

Well it's intersting someone else is building a 383 with AFR heads, I am planning a engine which is somewhat similar.

I am using the zz4 cam in my engine, with 1.6 rockers, giving me a total lift of .506/.544, which is close to the limits of the stock AFR Springs, so I opted for the upgraded springs.

AFR Part Number 1040 is what you want... 195cc intake runner, 68cc chamber, L98 angle plugs, but I decided to add the optional springs that are good for .600 lift.

I believe there is a 6-8 week wait no matter where you order them. The total price for mine was 1620 with upgraded springs, intake gaskets, shipping and tax. This was from Tenatious Performance, which is a company in NJ. If you are not in NJ or CA you won't have to pay tax on them, which was a 120.

You can get them milled down to 64 cc's for 150 from tenatious performance also, if you do need smaller chambers. I believe they accept both styles of valve covers, but I am not totally sure.

I am also not sure about your rocker question, but I believe since they come with guide plates you need to run standard rockers, and not self aligning ones, if you wanted to use self aligning You would have to remove the guide plates.

 

Thank's for the info. I really do apprectiate it,, im learning as i go in this process.

I was afraid of the 6-8 weeks order time. But that might work out good since this will give me a bit of time to save up for a ATI

I Think I will call AFR tommorow and just order through them ,, with bigger springs, and 68cc should be about perfect for a mild 383 setup correct ? but I just thought the 74cc version would have been to much.

 

I'm learning too, I never put an engine together before, but I'm hoping to do this one myself. I'm getting parts for it all still... but I pretty much have everything for my short block, minus the timing set and ARP bolts I need to get.

Are you going to be running stock TPI, or do you have aftermarket intake base and runners? I was told that the AFR 195cc heads are great for aftermarket TPI. I was also told basically it's not worth building a 383 for stock TPI, but if you did the AFR 180's would be a fair match for stock TPI.

You are going to have to figure out your compression ratio for the pistons, that will help you decide on the chamber size, 68 may be good but you may also need smaller. Since you plan on running an ATI later on, I would think you would want to keep the compression ratio down, but I am not sure of how far down.

The pistons I am using are 11:1 on 64 cc heads and a zero deck block, but my block isn't decked, and I'm going ot be running the 68 cc heads, therefore I am probably going to have a compression ratio of about 10.3:1.

 

Dont forget that you need special bolts for the afr heads. Theres 4 positions(?) on each head that need a smaller head on the bolt or you'll have to remove the valve springs to torque the head. Also you need a set of head bolt washers for afr's. Theyre smaller then the headbolt washers we could find locally.

 

Called AFR today and ordered a 68cc heads, I was scared to go with 64cc or 74cc heads, so i just picked the middle, range,, since i will be adding a ati in the future ,, talked to a sales man , told them my combo cam and what i wanted to do with the motor,, and my future plans, and they set me up ,, easy as 1,2,3 paid for them over the phone and they should be here in 6-8 weeks

went with the l98 angle plug 68cc, with the 600 lift springs . I asked him about the special head bolts , and he said i didnt need them,, so i will see once i get my heads in.

Thanks guys for all the advice,,

 

I hope you figured out what kind of pistons you had, because you might be losing compression with those heads. Then again you can have them milled down by a machine shop if it turns out you have dished pistons.

 

losing compression is good when ATI is gonna be involved later down the road, just means more boost. LOL

 

yeah thats basically what me and AFR talked about. My motor might not be at best performance, without a ATI but i should be able to run about 9psi or more to bring my compression back up to where it needs to be once i get a supercharger, And the more I think about it im pretty sure when i looked at the 383 kit when it came in that it had keith black dished hypertuanic pistons,, .. IF any case like 92rs said i can allways mill down,, can take away but cant add I think i will be happy with the choice i made once they come in

by the way if anyone is wondering on cost, it was 1400 for the 600 spring option and that includes shipping to VA from CA which was 65 bucks,,

 

If you got the larger diameter springs you will need those bolts. Unless you've allready got small head bolts? I helped bolt on a set of AFR 195s with the l98 plug angle just this year and we got stuck and had to order the bolts.... then afr sent not enough of one size and too many of the other anyway. Ended up pullin a couple valve springs in order to torque the heads. That cost us a weekend. We almost lost another weekend on the head bolt washer deal. Drove all over town, finally found enough to do a motor, and found out they were all too large. Luckily a friend had a set of afr 220s that he wasnt using, so we borrowed his washers. AFR wasnt very helpful through the whole process, even gettin the heads in the first place took almost 4 months.

 

Awww... i didnt read the part about the blower....
Carry on...

 

now why do you have to go and tell me a bad story like that after i orded my heads today lol,

well the sales guy said it comes in a kit with instructions ect,, after 5 weeks i will give them a call anyhow to see where my heads are at, and then i will mention and make sure i have the right bolt heads,, to get the job done, thanks though for bringing up that expereince, making a note to ask them now,, for when i call them next time, thanks

 

Did you get all the sensor holes drilled? What about the center Intake bolts, did you make sure you're getting the correct angle?

Dave from Tenatious Performance (the guy I originally ordered from) emailed me today asking about those things... it was an after thought on his part, and I'm glad he mentioned it, or else I would have been screwed down the road. He said the center intake bolts would have automatically been done at the 72* angle, but the sensor holes wouldn't have been drilled or tapped.

I emailed him back telling him what I needed, so he said he would take care of that for me, he would make sure AFR got all that on the order also.

I did write back to him again, asking about the head bolts, but I haven't received a response to that question yet. I will be sure to let you guys know what he says in response to that. I never heard anything about the head bolts until ChevyMad brought it up, but you can never be too safe. I am hoping Dave has the answer to the bolt question also. We'll see.

 

Just as a heads up, AFR was going to take at least 7 weeks to deliver my heads. I laughed, bought Protoplines, and had them on the car in the same week.

 

7 weeks is pretty typical for AFR

 

soo you guys think my choice was a bad one ?

doh i swear i will nerver build a motor again,, next time im just getting a freaking crate motor at my doorstep..but when i started this engine build, crate motors were not that big ,,, now summit and jegs have tons of slections ,,,,,

as far as the sensor and angle on bolts, i would think afr would understand to do all that ? right ?? i made completley sure to tell them this was going to be a street car... how can i have a street car with no sensor holes lol ? ,, as far as the angle on the intake bolts i dont understand,, ? shouldnt they all be the same no matter what intake i go with?

 

I am not sure if they are going to automatically put the sensor holes in, I mean they knew what kind of car the heads were going on in my case, but they didn't automatically drill them.\

The older style intakes have all the bolts at the same angle from what I understand all intakes until 86, after that they changed the 2 center bolts on each side to a different angle, 72*.

 

If you go to AFR's parts and accessories catalog and scroll to the bottom you'll find this..

Those are the bolts that you need because the heads are smaller. That's why theyre sold as a "6 bolt set"

Also you better make sure they drill the sensor holes, because thats an extra cost item.

Nothing wrong with the afr heads, it just takes time to get them and you need to know what you want before hand. Otherwise you'll spend alot of time gettin more parts or things fixed.

I'd also suggest that if your running a very high lift cam that you change the rocker studs. We found out that they're too short for pro magnum rockers and not very high quality. Broke one just a few months after starting the new motor. Replaced them with ARP and all's good.

 

AFR is a great head. But I just got all the options that I wanted and saved around $600 by going w/ a different brand. You didn't make a bad choice at all. I just didn't like how they charged you extra for stupid stuff like sensor holes, making you wait longer to get them, and that they come in 68 or 74?cc chambers. If you're not building a stroker you're screwed. Unless you want to use dome pistons, which in my case were out of the question.

 

Ok guestion what sensor holes are we talking about here,, ? im drawling a blank sinces its been allmost 3 years since i seen my motor together lol,,, if lets say by chance they dont drill the sensor holes,,, thats probally something i can get the local machine shop to do correct ?? or is it that big of a issue i need to get back on the phone with them,, and change my order to have them drilled ??

Just got done sending them a email to confirm the sensor problem.. Hopefull in a few days they will tell me one way or the other

why would afr sell heads, that flow for bigger motors, but yet cant even take a wimpy .550 lift, ?

to have the springs changed, and sensor holes drilled and even rocker studs changed, seems to me like uhhhh why am i buying these heads again lol, at extra cost options, should have just bought bare castings and had the machine shop build them ?

its like going to the car dealership and having to pay extra for the 4th wheel lol

but so far i been very pleased with afr customer service, there email and technically support has been fast and helpfull,, but then again im not a big engine guru,, on specs .. but so far im happy with them

again i woudnt have known these issuse's if it wasnt for all you guys here on thrid.gen thanks


ok as i stated they have a fast response, this is the email they just sent me back .. looks like they have the sensor holes which is good news, this is what the email said

The 180's and 195's come standard with water temp sensor holes, but so do
most intake manifold crossover's, so if nothing else you can put it there.
Feel free to contact me again by phone or by e-mail with any further
questions.

 

What year car?

The temp sensor hole should be there. They might not drill both heads, so then you'll have one head without a hole and that would be the location for the secondary fan switch if you have a car with the dual fan setup. You'll also need to specify the centerbolt and intake year, and they will charge extra for both the centerbolt machining and the extra sensor hole. Just make sure that you are telling them exactly what you need, because they can guess but what if the guess is wrong?

 

i told them it was a l98 89 formula block,, i do have dual fan setup,, on the intake im not sure i understand you mean just 87 and up is all i need to tell them ?? i mean i plan on going with a hsr so wont be the stock intake im using anyhow...

 

You should be fine on the intake bolts, Dave, the guy I ordered from, said they determine that by the year of the car that the heads are for. Sounds like you got the sensor thing straightened out also...

I'm still wondering about head bolts, Dave said that he would ask, cause he's never heard anything about requiring special head bolts.

 

If you have the 1.25" springs you wont need them. If you get the larger diameter you will. The base cup on the spring actually sits slightly over the edge of the head bolt hole. Close enough that you cant get a socket to fit. Theres no difference in length or anything else. We made the stock bolts work on one side by removing the springs near those 3 bolts and torqueing the head down. Then reinstalling the springs.. a PITA though.

 

I ordered my 195's 74cc fully ported with upgraded springs and titanium retainers. Order placed in March, arrived in August
good luck...btw my heads look good and they have the sensor holes. I bought ARP 7/16 studs to upgrade from the 3/8's the AFR's come with...runing comps pro magnum 1.6rr

 

You should be fine then, 87 up and centerbolt and they should be sending the right stuff

 

So did you need special head bolts to put them on? Are the ARP 7/16 studs a direct fit?

 

havent got them on yet...more parts to buy before buildup

I'll swap out the studs this weekend and let you know

 

Okay, well surprise surprise, I came home from work on Friday to a UPS InfoNotice on my door, says I have 2 packages from Airflow... wtf, I only ordered 2 weeks ago Wednesday, so 2 weeks 2 days...

I call up UPS and see if I can pick the packages up, Got all that figured out, went and got them.

So in 16 days from ordering, I have my heads. Only way Dave at Tenacious Performance could explain is that someone else must have cancelled an order and I was next on the list.

Update on the bolts, direct quote from Dave:
Finally, as far as I understand about using 7/16" studs... I have read that the 3/8" studs are just 3/8" on the rocker side, the stud side that goes in the head is in fact 7/16" so the 7/16" studs should fit fine. I know that made me decide on just getting ARP 7/16" Rocker Studs for added valve train stability.

And finally a Pic for you guys...


There's a few more here.

I know, my camera sucks... I need a new one.

 

Nice - I am jealous of your turnaround time... took forever for mine. I highly recommend the ARP studs (My engine is the one that Chevymad refers to).

FWIW, I ordered the 74cc chambers and took 45 thousandths off each to get to 66cc chambers (took me from 10:1 to 11:1).

Have fun!

-Schultzy

 

I'm more than likely getting a set of the AFR 195's when I start my engine build and I have a question regarding milling.
I would like to mill the head down so I have 58cc chambers for my set up. According to the site (.006" per cc) with the 74cc heads I would have to mill down .096" or with the 68cc heads it would need .060". Has anyone ever done either of the two? They do have thick decks. The intake side of the head will probably need some work along with getting the proper pushrod length, but beside that, has anyone has run into other problems milling them that much? Thanks

(Don't mean to hijack, but it seems like the afr guys are in here)