S10Wildside

I must not be getting email updates from the forum, sorry I missed this request.

The crank sensor is unique to the 24x reluctor. You can not use a 4x Vortec or 4x LT1 crank sensor. We have the 24x sensor in stock.

The camshaft is an LT4 hot cam. The firing order has changed through the harness. The crank is stock 1987 L98.

dhirocz

iTrader: (2)

OK, thats cool...but wouldnt that throw off the O2 sensors if there was a problem on the crossed cylinders?

I would imagine that a custom cam could be ground with the lobes changed around. They do these all the time for SB2.2 headed small blocks. This would be nice to keep the firing order in sync with the PCM. I need to look into that some for mine.

I'll keep in mind the bit about the 24x sensor. I am still looking for someone on here who is experienced in tuning a PCM for this swap with a TPI motor. Havent had the time.

Russ-So Cal

A few pages back the question was asked about whether the conversion to OBDII would turn on the SES light. The answer was no. I was talking to the guy that asked the question Saturday night at our club meeting and he thought you guys meant that the light didn't come on at start up and then go out after the engine started. I thought the answer was that you could not use the paper clip method of flashing the light to read codes. If it is the second case, that isn't a problem, but if the light does not come on at start up, then there is no way that the system could be used in California. That is the first thing the tech checks after doing the visual inspection.

dhirocz

iTrader: (2)

then couldnt you tap into the wiring for the fuel pump relay to turn it on for 2 seconds while the pump was priming? I'm sure theres got to be an easy solution to that problem...

Dale

iTrader: (12)

I believe mine does at startup. I know it comes on when a sensor doesnt work.

Russ-So Cal

Having it come on at start up is all that is needed. Basically it proves to the tech that the ses light is functional and will come on if there is a problem. Of course if it fails to go off, or comes back on at anytime during the test it is an automatic failure.

dhirocz

iTrader: (2)

Exactly. Thats why you wire it only to the prime circuit only (not power) on the fuel pump relay. That way it stays on only for the 2 second prime...

Russ-So Cal

The light is designed to stay on until the engine starts. If the tech takes longer to start the engine, say he turns the key on and gets distracted for 30 seconds before he starts the engine, the light has to stay on until the engine starts or it is an automatic fail. There are people out here trying to get around the smog laws, but that isn't the biggest problem. The state of California has inspectors who have cars that have had one or more smog parts disabled who go around to smog inspection stations posing as customers having their cars inspected for the bi-annual smog check. They are looking for the tech to miss what they have bypassed, and if the tech misses it, he gets a fine, and probation. If he should offer to take a bribe to look the other way, he can be fined thousands of dollars and lose his smog license. They may have suspended the program during this time of budget crunch, but they don't announce when the suspend the program and they don't announce when they reinstate such programs.

92camaroz28ss

iTrader: (1)

i have the obdII system hooked up and running, and im pretty sure it stays on until the engine starts. i know for sure it comes on before starting the engine. i wouild run out and check but the car is at my dads house right now.

Slow89Iroc-Z

It comes on and stays on till the engine starts.

1989GTATransAm

iTrader: (3)

Exactly what my Tahoe does. The SES light comes on a stays on. Not good for California Smog.

Mkos1980

iTrader: (8)

Wow, I havent been here in 3 months and you guys are still working hard on this. Update, its been more then 2 years since I did this swap and its still 100% dead on. No engine lights no nothing and passes Echeck perfect. (Both Cars) Keep at it guys!

5.0 Eater

iTrader: (2)

Hey guys i havent been on here for a while either, i got my harrness from mike at eficonnection about 8 months ago and got everything converted over a month or so ago. my problem is jamy quite tuning recently and i need my ecm flashed for the van tune so i can get the bugs out of it before i take it to the tuner i found. would any of you gentlemen be willing to flash my computer and remove the rear o2s and set the injectors to 26lbers. i despritly need to hear this thing run and prove to my skeptic friend that this wasnt a waste a money. Thanks Jason P.S.My number is 417-844-1228

Russ-So Cal

Allen, they said it comes on and stays on UNTIL the engine starts. That is the way it is supposed to work and the way our stock systems do it. If the light shuts off before the engine starts, or stays on for more than a couple of seconds after the engine starts, that will cause an automatic failure. Does your Tahoe pass smog with the ses light on all of the time?

1989GTATransAm

iTrader: (3)

Russ I'm just talking about the key at the ignition position motor not running. No blink. Yes it passes smog.

Russ-So Cal

Ok, I misunderstood what you were saying.

scuzz

You've got a pm.
Ron

307s10

can you do this mod and still use a turbo 350 or 400 trans

Dale

iTrader: (12)

I think you would need to get one of them adapters like they use on s10 v8 conversions where you can run a cable speedo, and eletric speedo. Then configure the pcm to think your running a manual trans.

Alot more then you think runs off the speedo signal.

Mkos1980

iTrader: (8)

On the camaro we dont run any signal to the ECM. It thinks it in idle 24/7 and we've never had one problem with driveabilty or anything. I use a B&M Lockup kit to control the converter though. So yes, you could run your 350 or 400

307s10

thanks for the help

tpiselli

iTrader: (1)

Hey folks,
So I'm still plodding along on my conversion and I've got some questions related to emmisons and wiring. Since I live in an area that does not require an emmision check can I:
a) block off the EGR and remove all EGR related hardware? Does this mean I can also drop any EGR related wiring?
b) does the same hold true for the air injection system?
c) is there anything else I can omit since I won't have to worry about emmisions?
Thanks,
Tony

Dale

iTrader: (12)

I think I am the only one who did run an EGR. I took it off later due to my setup for it broke. So yes, you can delete the egr, and wiring, and air injection.

tpiselli

iTrader: (1)

Another couple of quick queestions:
1) What's everyone doing about the canister purge solenoid? TPI engines used circuits 428 (.8 GRN DK/YEL) and 39 (.8 BLK/PNK GXL) which is also shared with the EGR and AIR injection solenoids and is part of the IP harness. The express van uses the same 428 circuit as well as curcuit 539 (0.5 PNK) which is shared with the canister vent solenoid and wired to the underhood fuse block. Is anyone using this solenoid or has everyone been dropping it?
2) What about the canister vent solenoid? TPI cars didn't have one but the express van does. What does this do and has anyone retrofitted it for this conversion or is it not needed?

Thanks,
Tony

dhirocz

iTrader: (2)

So who on here has actually got one of these things tuned and set up right? After life hit me over the last couple months, I am finally ready to go ahead and do this swap now, but I dont want to just send a PCM to somebody who might not understand what it is Im trying to do!

Mkos1980

iTrader: (8)

We're going on 3 years with our cars. Fully tuned and both pass emmisions. I havent touch anything under the hood in about 2 of those years.

tpiselli

iTrader: (1)

I have a general wiring question about the TPI harness wiring vs. the Express van wiring. I'll give one example for one sensor but I believe this is applicable to other sensors as well. One thing to note is that I'm planning on reusing as much of my TPI harness as possible.
On the TPI harness the throttle position sensor has three wires: at terminal A is a black wire (ckt 452) which is the 5 volt return, at terminal B is a blue wire (ckt 417) which is the TPS signal, and at terminal C is a gray wire (ckt 416) which is the 5 volt reference.
Now, on the Express van, according to the wiring diagrams I found, the throttle position sensor again has three wires: at terminal A is a gray wire (ckt 2701) which is the 5 volt reference, at terminal B is a black wire (ckt 2752) and is the low reference, and at terminal C is a blue wire (ckt 417) and is the throttle position low signal.
So, we basically have the same three wires for the same sensor but, they are located at different terminals on the sensor connector. My question really comes down to this: When I wire my existing throttle position sensor wires to the 411 PCM do I leave the wires in their current connector terminals or do I switch around the wires in the connector terminals to match the Express van diagram, i.e. keep the gray wire at terminal C where it is for TPI or move it to terminal A like the Express van diagram and so on?
Thanks,
Tony

S10Wildside

Be careful about pulling all of your information from the schematics. Be sure to look at the connector views as well. There you will notice that the TPI TPS is a different sensor than the Express Van's TPS. Different sensor, different connector, electronics are still compatible.

tpiselli

iTrader: (1)

So I'm wondering what folks are doing for a MAP sensor if their car didn't come with one? Is everyone adding one or doing something else? Since my car was originally a carb'd car I have a barometric pressure (BARO) and differential pressure (VAC) sensor which appear (with the help of the TPS) to provide the same information to the LG4's ECM. For both the BARO and the VAC, circuit 416 (0.8 Gray wire) is tied to terminal C and provides the 5 volt reference. This appears to be equivalent to circuit 2704 for the 411. Also, for both the BARO and the VAC, circuit 452 (0.8 Black wire) is tied to terminal A and provides the low reference ground. This appears to be equivalent to the 411's 0.5 ORN/BLK circuit 469. Finally, the BARO has circuit 433 (0.8 GRY/BLK) which provides the "BARO signal". The literature says the BARO output is like a MAP out put, high voltage when high barometric pressure. The VAC has circuit 432 (0.8 LT. GRN) which is called the "MAP signal" however, the literature says that the voltage output is opposite of a MAP sensor, high voltage at high vacuum. This appears to be the same as circuit 432 for the 411. Although the LG4 VAC connector is gray it appears to be the same as a TPI MAP connector. So, can I use the LG4 VAC connector and wiring as a MAP connector if I add a MAP sensor to my setup?
Thanks again,
Tony

ls six

Hey, I have read just the first half of the thread but I'm ready to go shopping since I believe most of the parts are available now at the local yards and I want to get them before they get crushed.

I'm hoping someone who has done a similar swap can chime in with ideas, suggestions and let me know if I'm getting all the needed bits right away.

My car is a 90 350 T/A with a 700R4 TPI and is mostly stock. ( bored tb, EGR block off, 24# injectors and AFPR)

I plan on running a 200-4R trans and keeping the TPI intake or doing an LT1 im swap.


So correct me where I'm wrong or if I'm missing anything but I believe this is the list of parts I'll need:

411 Express van PCM.

Any 411 ECM will work just as well but will need to be reflashed as a 01-02 Express right?

Express van engine harness. The van harness can be used "as is" except for the injector clips correct? I gather that I will have to re-pin the van harness to use the TPI connectors for the TPS and IAC correct? I read that the LT-1 and I assume L99 TB's will work with the stock van connectors but I allready have a bored TPI tb and dont want to switch.

I also would like to keep the stock harness intact except for the injection and ignition so the charging system can be left as-is correct? Will I have to edit the 411 ECM for this? Or is it easier to wire the charging system to the 411?

Also can any L31 express van be used as a donor for the harness? I know I can get an Express harness but I'm not sure what year it is other than it has an L31 with all the requisite vortec equipment.

Vortec distributor.

From any Vortec V8 correct?

O2 sensors specific to the van. The only difference between the Van (vette)O2's and other's are the connectors right? So any 4 wire sensor can be modified to fit? I can get the specific part, I'm just wondering.

MAF. Obviously the Van MAF will work but incase it's gone will other vortec MAF sensors work with no splicing or editing? Will I have to find another 01-02 L31 piece or will other year sensors work?


Knock sensor. This absolutely needs to be from the 5.7 Express? It seems that nearly everything else can be had from the 5.0 van or a variety of vehicles.

Pocket

iTrader: (24)

You essentially described how a MAP sensor functions, it should work

Read all of it, several times
There is a TON of info in here with several summations

Any 0411 PCM will work with a reflash. There are several different service numbers that will work fine. 97-98 PCMs use a different pinout, 99+ use the pinouts listed in here

As-is harness routes wires poorly over and around the engine as it was designed to fit in a van. The accessories will be in truck location, you may have to lengthen several to work on a Fbody. Once you figure out how to hook up the new harness it should run albeit the wires will look awful

You can leave your original harness intact if you like and only splice into it but the sheer amount of wiring you will have in your engine bay will make you wish you had trimmed it

00-01 express vans with the 305 and 350 vortec will work fine
Any year vortec truck (even V6) will also work fine if you install new PCM connectors

Any flat style dist V6 or V8 will work, grab the IGN module while you're there
Timing cover is specific to V8 models

Any front O2s will work if you have the correct connector. Rears use a different signal. I found that out the hard way
Use the truck harness'

MAF sensors come in 2 general versions 3 wire and 5 wire
3 wire is the plain MAF GM used in just about every car of the time period
5 wire incorporates the IAT in with the MAF and is usually a larger diameter unit
Build the harness around which sensor you decide on
You can also tune the MAF out and not use it

Knock is from any vortec truck or van
Id suggest buying a new pair from Autozone or whatever

Mkos1980

iTrader: (8)

I was thinking to myself, what If I ever had to do a crank relearn by myself. I dont have the computer stuff or nothing so I went searching. I came up with this. Does this make any sence?

NOTE: If the Crankshaft Relearn is not accessible through your scan tool (some GM truck applications 1998 & later), perform the relearn in the following manner:

1. Turn off all of the accessories. With the Air temperature sensor and Coolant temperature within 5 degrees (Centigrade) of each other, start the engine and let it idle in Park or Neutral for two minutes.
2. Accelerate the vehicle to 55 mph at part throttle. Cruise at 55 mph for 8- 10 minutes until the engine reaches operating temperature.
3. Cruise at 55 mph for another 5-6 minutes.
4. Decelerate to 45 mph without using the brakes, and maintain 45 mph for 1 minute.
5. Perform 4 deceleration cycles, without using the brakes, of 25 seconds each where no specific speed is necessary. Returning to 45 mph for 15 seconds in between deceleration cycles.
6. Accelerate to 55 mph and cruise for 2 minutes.
7. Stop the vehicle and idle for 2 minutes with the brake applied and the transmission in Drive (automatic trans.) or Neutral (manual trans.) with the clutch depressed.


Yes No?

Mkos1980

iTrader: (8)

Well we tried to get the Camaro to pass emmisions today and without the blower but still with the 411 it passed perfectly. once we added the blower and fattened it up a tad it failed bit time. NO and HC passed perfectly but on a max of .94 CO's we scored 2.19 LOL Were just going to have to get collector plates for it as I dont want to retune anything. Runs too good. It fired up today within 1 sec since we put the car away in storage in September lol

Justin89Formy

iTrader: (26)

Been awhile since I've posted in here!

I've done a bunch of work to my car, and im finally stuck. Last thing I need to do to my car is a crank relearn. It seems that im stuck at the fact that the scan tool says the IAT and CTS both read -40C. I've tried a different IAT and no change. Do these two sensors share a common ground?

I got a subscription to alldata and printed out some info on where to start, but if you have any input that might help me along i'd appreciate that too

Pocket

iTrader: (24)

IAT and CTS are 100% ran by the PCM
Nothing common about them

IAT
R25 Tan Signal
R57 Blk Low Ref

CTS
B74 Yel Signal
B80 Blk Low Ref

Justin89Formy

iTrader: (26)

Would the secondary cooling fan happen to share the same ground from the PCM? I'm having what appears to be a weird ground problem with that fan.

Mkos1980

iTrader: (8)

Not that I know of. I wired in both your fans with 1 common.

Justin89Formy

iTrader: (26)

looks like I have a bad pcm. I'm only getting .02 volts out of the low reference wires to those two sensors, instead of 5

Whats another $120 to spend on the car

Justin89Formy

iTrader: (26)

Well a new computer didn't fix the problem. The IAT and CTS both still read -40C. We confirmed that the 2 wires for the cts and 2 wires for the iat have continuity and aren't broken. The sensors ohmed out appropriately. All chassis and engine grounds are good, all fuses are good.

Is it possible that these sensors will read -40 until closed loop? That makes no sense, but I'm at a loss on what to look for. I got a subscription to all data as S10Wildside suggested but MAN that website is an absolute horror to find the info you need

I'm running short on time...I have the power tour in a month and the car should have been running 4 weeks ago

I'm going to give it another shot tonight, and even use a different scan tool. Grasping at straws here lol

Justin89Formy

iTrader: (26)

Would you believe a 2001 Express van VIN would cause all this rediculous hassle I've had? I used a 2002 Express van VIN and BAM my IAT and CTS were working again. I'm in the process of doing a relearn now. It won't seem to take for some reason. I may be doing it wrong....I'll keep trying Practice makes perfect right?

Pocket

iTrader: (24)

Very strange

Ill have to remember that when I get my PCM flashed

Justin89Formy

iTrader: (26)

well I cant seem to get a crank relearn to take. It does the fuel shutoff at 4k rpm's but it doesnt save the variation and just says the learn failed. Its set a P1336 because the learn keeps failing.

I have hooked up a park/neutral switch and set it to park. Scantool reads in park, so that means pins 32 and 34 should be grounded, right? Car is up to temp, too. I cant think of anything else to do to get this to work...

Dale

iTrader: (12)

I never had to do a relearn on mine? Maybe I lucked out.

I'm having more problems with the air temps changing my desired idle then anything else. Otherwise my car runs good. I have an occasional missfire on the left side which I think is a bad sparkplug wire.

Justin89Formy

iTrader: (26)

you're lucky. this relearn sucks lol

Justin89Formy

iTrader: (26)

well the car finally puked out a P1345 code too. The cam sensor is good, so it looks like the distributor is out a tooth as well. Will check tomorrow.

Justin89Formy

iTrader: (26)

it was! Cars been done since saturday. I have another post in this forum where you can hear it run

scuzz

Guys, chalk up another OBDII Gen1 project running.
After 3 years, I finally got the time to finish up my Ramjet/4L60E project in my 41 Chevy Pickup running.
It fired up this morning and sounds like it's got a million horsepower.
Thanks to Mike, Lextech and a couple friends.
Ron

S10Wildside

Congrats!!

63c10

For those that have finished this swap, how much has it cost? Trying to get a ballpark figure to compare to using a megasquirt system.

scuzz

I scrounged most of my hardware for hundred dollars or so, harness from mike 550 or so, bought an original copy of Tunercat II with several defs another 800 or so, Ramjet intake with fuel rails another 700 or so, new set of SVO injectors 200 or so, Vortec long block 500 or so, port heads and stock LT4 cam 200 or so, 4L60E core and build with vette servo V6 torque convertor and shift kit 600 or so, should I go on?
Spend what you can afford and enjoy what you have when it's done. You will enjoy the changeover.
Be sure to deal with eficonnection. Mike is a real pro and honest guy.
Ron