irocz28boy

iTrader: (2)

Can anyone tell me if you have to remove the fuel rails to install new fuel injectors? If so, is there any special way to take it off or any special tools to do it with? Thanks.

ploegi

Yep. Pull four bolts, and then GENTLY pry up. The injectors tend to hold on tight to the manifold, squirting a little WD-40 on them first might help. No special tools required. Make sure you depressurize the fuel system first..... might get a surprise otherwise.

irocz28boy

iTrader: (2)

How do I relieve the pressure? I'm sure my dad knows but just in case he doesn't I can know how. Thanks.

Viprklr

iTrader: (5)

Push in the little nozzle located in the schraeder valve attached to the fuel rail. Use a rag so that you don't get a gas bath.
You can also start the car then disconnect the fuel pump harness.
Also don't forget to open the fuel tank cap.

irocz28boy

iTrader: (2)

Ok so I started taking out the injectors but I ran into a few problems. Do you have to take the runners out completely? I took them plenum off and got the 4 bolts out of the rails and they came loose and out of the manifold but I couldn't get them out of the fuel rails. Now I can't get the fuel rails to come out completely. Any help is greatly appreciated.

TIMMYS89GTA

iTrader: (28)

I don't have a pic of one,but there are small clips on the fuel rail side of the injectors that needs to be turned to release the injector.
Hope that helps.

irocz28boy

iTrader: (2)

Yeah I saw those. I turned them and they still didn't come out. I probably just didn't use enough force. I was getting frustrated so I just quit for the night since it was already dark outside.

TIMMYS89GTA

iTrader: (28)

yeah,they can sometimes be a bear about coming out.
I think if you just remove one runner the fuel rail should slide out easily.
Then you can just set yourself up a table and chair to work on instead of all that back breaking leaning over the engine compartment.
You can then easily dissasemble the complete fuel rail and replace all of the o-rings.

irocz28boy

iTrader: (2)

Yeah that's what I'm hoping for tomorrow. I ordered my injectors a few days ago and they're supposed to be here tomorrow so I was just trying to have it ready for just putting everything back together. I'm only 17 and my parents make me do all my "priorities" before they let me work on my car so I usually run out of daylight and don't have enough lights to see anymore to finish it.

TIMMYS89GTA

iTrader: (28)

Do yourself a favor and make a trip to your closest autozone,advanedauto etc. and pick up the fuel rail o-ring kit.
Once you get the fuel rail removed you will know what I'm talking about.

irocz28boy

iTrader: (2)

Yeah I planned on that when I go to pick up my plenum gasket set tomorrow afternoon. Thanks. I guess all I can do is just keep working on it until I get it right.

TIMMYS89GTA

iTrader: (28)

Exactly!If you don't get it right thats exactly what you'll be doing(just keep working on it) HAHA!
Let us know how everything turns out and ask more questions if you need to.
Good luck.

irocz28boy

iTrader: (2)

Well thanks for all your help. I do have a question, though. I'm only replacing these because I have the original injectors from '88 and I figured this could be the cause of my poor/erratic idle. Am I right to assume that they are causing this?

MdFormula350

did you test the ohm ratings on the injectors when the car is full cold and full warm? that gives u an idea at least if they are at least to specs.

2 out of 8 when low on ohms and thus not working so great and my car starts up faster and idles alittle bigger. before it started surging at stop lights, etc.. plus my car was knocking under heavy load at the track with the ecu taking timing out.

might of had a vac leak as well since I had to replace a few vac. caps on my tpi intake once I had it off they were dry rotted. either way the car still needed them. those multec were not know to be good over time. and I have alot of things I deleted off of it.

irocz28boy

iTrader: (2)

Well so far I've replaced and adjusted the TPS and IAC, replaced the MAF, egr valve, FPR, plugs and wires,distributor, cap and rotor, 02 sensor but haven't tested the vacuum though. Right now it just starts and dies unless I hold the accelerator. I'm really hoping these new injectors help that a lot. But I did not ohm test the injectors. I got a really good deal on the injectors so I just decided to buy them.

TIMMYS89GTA

iTrader: (28)

possibly.I'm certain that you purchased the correct ones.19lb.
Looks like you have covered everything else.

irocz28boy

iTrader: (2)

Yes they are 19lb.

irocz28boy

iTrader: (2)

Ok so I got the fuel rails out and finally got the injectors out. I couldn't believe how tight the o-rings kept them in. I put the new ones in and started putting everything back together again. I should have it done by tomorrow, if not then Friday. Thanks everyone for their help.

TIMMYS89GTA

iTrader: (28)

cool,glad to here you're getting it figured out.
I told you that them injectors can sometimes be a BEAR about coming out,I had the same problem when I was replacing all gaskets on my engine.
Let us know how everything turns out.

irocz28boy

iTrader: (2)

Well I didn't get to do anything today because it rained the whole day and I don't have any room in my garage to put the car in and work on it. But I have a question still. I should have asked this the other day but I didn't. When I went to relieve the system of fuel pressure, absolutely nothing happened. I hadn't driven my car, or even started it in about 3 days before trying this. Could that be the reason there was no pressure? Or is there something else?

Viprklr

iTrader: (5)

That would be the reason. No matter what, the fuel system will bleed down over time. It's just when it bleeds down too fast that you have a problem.

irocz28boy

iTrader: (2)

Ok, thanks. Another thing is that I put in the new injectors and they're a little bit loose. Like, they're in tight because they're hard to take out, but they wiggle around a little bit. Will they tighten themselves over time with the car being run?

s24a

The o-rings you are using are new, and are probably lubricated.
Over time they will absorb some fuel vapors (or the alcohol in our E10 fules these days) and will swell.

That will tighten them up.

It was also one of the reasons the old ones seemed so tight when you removed them......

irocz28boy

iTrader: (2)

Ok, well I finished tonight because I was working the weekend. Anyway, I started it and it all seemed great. I turned it off and then back on and then it wouldn't start. I had to hold down the accelerator pedal to make it start and then I had to keep holding it for it to idle. Does anyone have any other ideas on what could fix this problem? I'm all out of ideas and very frustrated at this car. Thanks.

87SSTPI

iTrader: (7)

I wish I could be of more help, but I'm in the process of learning exactly how TPI systems work myself(I'm getting ready for a TPI swap on my 87 monte ss). I do remember reading about people who have had idle problems and it ended up being the TPS(throttle position sensor). There is a way to test it with a volt meter. Going from memory, it should have somewhere around .5 volt at idle and I think 4.5 volts at WOT. Check around here and I'm sure this is something that is talked about alot. PLEASE NOTE: this is just a guess from a rookie

irocz28boy

iTrader: (2)

Thanks for the help, but unfortunately I've already done that.

QuickStyle

are you saying that your problem got worse, or it is still the same after the injector swap?

irocz28boy

iTrader: (2)

It's still the exact same. No better, no worse.

QuickStyle

check your fuel pressure, holding down the pedal to WOT gives no fuel, you might have a fualty regulator

irocz28boy

iTrader: (2)

Well when I finally got the car to idle it ran really well, but as soon as I turned it off and tried to restart it, I'd have to spend 5-10 minutes trying to get it to idle again. And the entire time it did, it had a SES light on, but I haven't had a way of checking it yet. That could be the fix hopefully. Also, I noticed when it was running that there was fuel leaking off the fuel rails, so I'm sure the fuel pressure won't be great when I check it, but I also don't think that would be the cause of it running so poorly.

QuickStyle

un-steady fuel pressure = bad idle/driveability. what kind of injectors did you install? ford yellow tops?

https://www.thirdgen.org/service-eng...ht-error-codes

irocz28boy

iTrader: (2)

Yes, 19lb ford yellow tops. I know I have unsteady fuel pressure, so I'm probably going to get another new FPR.

QuickStyle

did you get the type III injectors with the 4 spray holes rather than just the one spray hole? like the ones that are going on ebay right now?

irocz28boy

iTrader: (2)

Yes, those are them and I got them on ebay.

IROCc_916

i put the 19lb ford injectors in and they worked just fine AFTER i changed the fuel regulator.. i strongly suggest you change yours. but my injectors aren't them yellow tip ones that everyones been talkin about. you cant use the stock fuel regulator one on those injectors. also, advance your timing 5-8 degrees. i would check for cracked hoses because it sounds like its the fuel regulator or a VACCUM leak. and also, the ford 19# should have little to no play on the fuel rails to manifold.. i can barely move mine like i used to be able to on the stock injectors. i think the o-rings might have been put on wrong or torn in installation. clean it up and track that leak....

Viprklr

iTrader: (5)

You might consider looking into the fuel leakage before you start a campfire.

irocz28boy

iTrader: (2)

Oh, yeah I'm not driving it at all until I figure out where exactly that leak is coming from or until I get it running properly. I've been deal with a crappy idle for over a year and I'm sick of it. I also think the o-rings tore or something from installation so I bought more of them and I'm going to take it apart again tomorrow. I'm thinking thats the cause of the leak because its only on on side of the fuel rail and it looks like its traveling from the injector to the edge where it's leaking. Thanks for everyones help.

QuickStyle

the reason the fuel is leaking is cause the ford type III injectors are about a quarter inch shorter from o-ring to o-ring than the stock injectors, you need to grind down the four mounting posts on the intake manifold for the fuel rail, that way the injectors can sit a quarter inch lower. this also needs to be done because you can't put the stock injector clips on the top of the type III injectors to keep them from being pressurized down into the intake manifold and letting the top leak fuel out. you need to fix this problem first cause having fuel leaking is not only dangerous, it could be the cause of the problems you are having.

irocz28boy

iTrader: (2)

Yeah, I noticed that they were shorter and was wondering if that would be a problem. So you're saying I need to grind down the mounting posts coming out of the manifold? That makes sense, but I only have fuel leaking from one injector. Well from what I've seen. Thanks.

QuickStyle

yep the four posts on the intake manifold. even if its only coming from one injector, its still the problem. i had that happen before with only one injector leaking like that, i learned the hard way like you did, but now everytime i do the ford injector swap i cut 1/4-3/8 inch off the post while i have everything off that way i dont have to take the intake apart again. and put some tranny fluid on the o-rings to help ease the installation of the injectors, and to keep the o-rings in good shape.

irocz28boy

iTrader: (2)

Well I'll definitely be trying that tonight when I start taking it back apart. And I put oil on the o-rings, would tranny fluid be better? I don't really see the difference in this situation. Thanks for your help.

QuickStyle

motor oil could clogg the injector, tranny fluid is much slicker. theres another reason why you shouldnt use oil also, but i cant remember. you could also use an oil that is slick like marvels mystery oil.

irocz28boy

iTrader: (2)

Well I'm going to start putting it back together tomorrow, now that I have time again. I just have a question though..Should I put the injectors in the manifold or into the fuel rails first? I want to make sure they're really tight in the fuel rails considering thats where they were leaking from. And did you just grind the mounting posts down with a grinder or any special tool?

TIMMYS89GTA

iTrader: (28)

I can't speak for quickstyle on the ford injectors as I've never done this,but on an original gm setup I would go into the fuel rail first.

irocz28boy

iTrader: (2)

Thats what I was thinking. Thank you for your help.

TIMMYS89GTA

iTrader: (28)

no problem,glad to help anyone in need!
But please if you have some spare time,take a look at my photobucket album and tell me what you think.

QuickStyle

i used an air powered cut-off wheel. in the past i have used a grinder and similar other tools, basically any cutting tool will get the job done, you only need to cut off as far as the part that is not threaded, which is about a 1/4 inch. make sure you shove some newspaper or something to block the intake ports from shavings from grinding. also one more thing that is need to do after you take the posts down.... before fully tightening down the fuel rails install the runners. leave about 1/4 inch of a gap between the rails and the posts, you need to do this because you cant install the runners while the rails are fully seated, it will bind between the rail and valve cover, its not a hard procedure, just a heads up to get you through the install faster. it always happens on the driver side runner, but only sometimes on the passenger side. you dont have to fully install the runners prior to tightening the rails, just need them to be in position under inside the rails. only thing i dont like about having to do this is that you cant use a rachet on the rail bolts, you have to use a wrench cause now the runners are in the way. good luck.

edit: forgot to mention that you should have the injectors in the rails then install the rails with injectors into the manifold.

TIMMYS89GTA - what rims do you have on that car, they look similar to some rims i have, they are CenterLine Billet Hammers 17x9.5

TIMMYS89GTA

iTrader: (28)

they are centerline razors

irocz28boy

iTrader: (2)

Ok guys, I don't know what to do. I grinded down the mounting posts like QuickStyle said, but I guess not enough because I turned the key to the on position to see if it was leaking from the orginal place. It wasn't, but it was pouring gas out of the rail and from the manifold side of a different injector. How am I going to fix this? Any help would be amazing. Thank you.

TIMMYS89GTA

iTrader: (28)

oh man,that sounds like a mess.
I just was thinking though,and aren't the parts that you had to grind machined?
Did you grind them all evenly?