CamaroX84

Which heads do you guys think would go best for a SuperRam with a high-flow base and the LT4 HOT cam on my 355? Thanks in advance.

BuckeyeROC

AFR 190's

------------------
89 IROC-SuperRammed 355 w/ AFR 190's and LPE 219/219 cam-http://www.geocities.com/buckeyeroc

Steve91Z28 L98

If you can't afford the AFR heads, go with the GM fast Burn heads and the Scoggin Dickey Vortec base. That would be an interesting combo that would probably make very good power with a Super Ram.

------------------
1991 Z28 - 350 TPI, T56, McLeod street clutch, LT4 pressure plate, Pro 5.0 shifter, ported plenum & runners, AFPR, Hooker shorty headers w/o AIR, Flowmaster muffler, homeade ram-air, SSM subframe connectors, Kenny Brown STB, Global West steering box brace, Steve Spohn adjustable torque arm and T56 crossmember

'87FAKE-IROC-Z

AFR 190s also! You will have almost the exact same setup as me!

------------------
White '88 RS (originally 2.8)
Previous engine-350, .040 over, vette alum. L98s, stock tpi, stock 305 injectors & chip. TES headers & edelbrock cat back. 3.73 gears, 700r4.
Best with 2.8-17.4@77mph
Best with 305-15.0@93mph
Best with 357-13.7@101mph
on a 2.050 60 ft.
(Damn the 2.8!)
New Setup:
4 bolt 357 (10.2:1), AFR 190s (fully cnc ported), LT4 Hot cam (1.6 RRs), Ported SuperRam (upper&lower), Ed Wright custom chip, 24# Accel injectors, Yank 3200 lock-up TC, 3.27 9 bolt rear, some traction! Hoping to see some 12s.

airdeano

miniram + hot cam + lt4 springs + gears + 200+ runners
why do the LT4s run so well with the cam?
restricting the flow isnt productive.
the LPE219 works well with the 195 runners
and the super ram.
the super doesnt have to have major lift and
duration.
a high flow base, siamesed runners and a moderate
cam profile can be made to shift at 5800rpm.
but with this 10.5:1 compression is necessary.
mininum.
airdeano

gta324

AFR 190's are very popular and flows good, for a little less $$ you can get canfield heads, they also flows very good!

------------------
GTA -89:383, 4-bolt,Free flow muffler,dual 3" HF cats, Edelbrock headers, Canfield heads, 1.52 RR 7/16, ZZ-9 cam, Big Mouth, AS&M LTR, !plenum, 52 TB, MSD 6AL, TPIS level V prom, Superior shift-kit and all the minor mods soon superram and DFI http://www.itv.se/tacs/members_cars/m279/m279.html (Swedish Trans Am Club)

rockind78

I like the Fast Burns, E-Tecs 200's, and Trick Flow heads. If you are short on cash, you might want to consider the Trick Flows. A VERy nice head for the money.

Mike89GTA

That's pretty much my setup, I'm using Edelbrock 6085 heads. I wish I had gotten the AFR 190's but they were out of my budget. Still though, the 6085's are good heads from what I've read.

------------------
-Black 89 GTA, t-tops, 5 speed
-355 cubic inches
-Edelbrock Performer Centerbolt heads with 10.4:1 compression (#6085)
-LT4 Hot Cam with 1.6 rr's
-SLP 1 3/4" Headers
-Accel Super Ram, stock throttle body
-dual cats with Flowmaster Y-pipe and single outlet Flowmaster cat-back
-Scat cast crank
-roller timing chain
-SLP CAI
-EST poly A-arm bushings, sway bar end links, transmission mount
-Alston sub frame connectors
https://www.thirdgen.org/newdesign/movies/index.shtml

Acceld Z

I have yet to see a fast car (sub 13's) using the TFS 23's. I'm not trying to flame anyone but have any of you seen any fast TPI cars using them?

------------------
89GTA-The Driver
92Z28-The Lawn Ornament

"Sunday Money"

rockind78

Fast car????.....nope. Engine capable of low 13's high twelves with a good injection setup...YEP! Check out the "Junkyard Jewel" series that Hot Rod did about a year or two ago. The Trick Flow 23* heads cost about the same as new L98's and will flow much better out of the box.

CamaroX84

Thanks for the replies. Mike89GTA, do you have any timeslips on that setup? Thanks again.

------------------
1984 Camaro Sport Coupe - Rebuilt 355 S/D TPI L98, Crane 2032 CompuCam, Crane adjustable fuel pressure regulator, MSD Blaster coil, custom burned PROM, stock TPI intake, Accel 24# injectors, gutted air box with K&N filters
F41 Suspension Package, 700R4 Tranny, TCI Breakaway torque converter, 3.27 Posi Rear
Hooker Shorty Headers, Catco High-Flow 3" Cat, Flowmaster 3" American Thunder Cat-Back
JVC Head Unit, Kenwood Amp, Pioneer 4x6's and Pioneer 6x9's

Best 1/4 Mile Run:
13.847 @ 95.91 MPH

1992 1LE B4C Police Camaro RS - 305 TPI 5-Speed

Acceld Z

I consider a "fast/quick car" to be a sub 13 second performer. That's just the way I am The trick flows may be a bargain but they have not shown themselves to be suitable for TPI engines, yet.

Mike89GTA

CamaroX84: nope, just putting the Super Ram on right now..

MikeH

iTrader: (10)

I have the trickflows on my car. Acceled Z, If you went for a ride in it you would think different. I Have over 11.1+ compression, And just recently found a local 100 octane sunoco station. I have been running 20* I bump it to 36*. This is easly a mid 12 car, 400+ horsepower and 500 flbs of torque at the flywheel.

------------------
90 IROC
SuperRamed 406
Trickflow 23* heads

BLWR PWR

Just curious, Acceld Z, what heads do you run?

Acceld Z

I was not trying to flame ownwers of the TFS 23's. At no point did I say they where garbage or anything like that. All I said is that I have yet to see a quick TPI car that uses them. I imagine you will be pretty deep into the 12's with that combo given good traction and a proper calibration.

------------------
89GTA-The Driver
92Z28-The Lawn Ornament

"Sunday Money"

Acceld Z

LPE ported Edelbrock RPM's. Why do you ask?

Matt87GTA

I have very litte doubt that I can get under a 13.0 with my car with some sticky tires, but I don't have a time slip to prove it yet.... I guess you'll just have to trust me .

------------------
1987 GTA L98 MD8
355, TFS Heads, LT4 Hot Cam
My GTA

The Minnesota F-body Club

TPI Guy

I gotta back AcceldZ up on this one. There aren't (m)any fast tpi cars out there with the trick flows.

References:
Project TPI Magnum

The Goodwrench Quest
http://www.aros.net/~rbuck/chp/Welcome.html
**The Part 6 article (not shown) involved the swapping of heads to trick flows which yielded a large loss of torque and a gain of 7 peak HP when compared to vortecs.

------------------
355 c.i.
Dart 180 Heads
Lunati 224/224 cam
Harland Sharp 1.5 rockers
Performer RPM Manifold
Holley 600 cfm double pumper
Hooker Super Competition Headers
Flowmaster Exhaust
Competition Engineering Sub-frame connectors
Tremec TKO
Pro 5.0 Shifter
GM posi 3.42 rear
Hurst Roll Control
13.9@102
http://www.geocities.com/thetpiguy/index.html
chemjoker@aol.com

Matt87GTA

Well I really don't agree with you TPI Guy. I think my car is fast. MikeH's car is definately fast and I am sure there are hundreds more that don't grace the message boards with their presence - just because they don't post here does not mean they don't exist...... And the problem with a TPI setup that has TFS 23* heads and isn't fast, is not the heads - it's the LTR setup .

And let us not forget, skip over, or misunderstand the idea that those of us that bought the TFS heads never expected to be able to bring them to a local flow bench and blow away a ported AFR head!! The deal is, is that the TFS 23* heads are an economical head that is unmatched for the price. Anyone that buys them should, and likely is, aware of that fact.

------------------
1987 GTA L98 MD8
355, TFS Heads, LT4 Hot Cam
My GTA

The Minnesota F-body Club

NufNuffZ28

iTrader: (10)

87 Fake Iroc Z...what valve covers did you use to fit the 1.6's under them?

Thanks

Chris

------------------
1986 Iroc 355 TPI coming soon

1985 Z28/5-speed Daily Driver

Acceld Z

I am in total agreement with both of those points. Also, I don't think their is any point in making reference to Project Magnum. That car was never healthy.

Matt87GTA

Yep.... pretty much....

------------------
1987 GTA L98 MD8
355, TFS Heads, LT4 Hot Cam
My GTA

The Minnesota F-body Club

doc

info on 1.6 rocker arms:
Comp Cams 1.6 roller tip rocker arms will fit under the stock center bolt valve covers.

My current setup on my '87 IROCZ is AFR 190 heads, TPIS ZZ9 cam, Accel SuperRam & base, 9 bolt raer with 3.70 gears, 24# SVO injectors, custom programming.
My car has run at 12.97sec Et, and I consider that slow. A friend has an '89 IROCZ which I have seen run a 12.3x sec ET.

Some how I got to find at least 0.50sec !!!!

Any ideas ????


------------------
'87 L98 TPI IROCZ, AFR190 heads, 3.70 gears, ZZ9 cam, 3000 Art Carr TC, SLP 1 3/4" headers, SLP cat-back, no cat, no AC, no MAF screens, Accel manifold base & SuperRam, 24#/hr SVO injectors, Edelbrock double roller timing chain, MSD ext coil & distributor, trans cooler, 52mm TB with airfoil, TB coolant bypass, AFPR(56psi), K&N filters, Hotchkis lowering springs, my custom chip, Lay Ind. ram air kit, SS Brakes 1LE upgrade 12" rotors dual piston calipers, 265/45R16 Kumho V700 tires.
ET 12.97sec @ 105mph on MT ET Streets
'90 Eagle Talon AWD, no rust thru 9 winters
'99 Camaro SS, red, 6-spd, T-tops, Mcleod clutch, Pro 5.0 shifter, MAF processor, Direct Flow airlid, K&N filter, next mod: 4.10 rear gears
313.7Hp & 320.6ft-lbf, ET 13.55sec @ 105.1mph
more mods: MMS heads/cam, LS6 intake, FLP headers,
Best ET: 12.64sec @ 111.5mph @ Dragway42

'87FAKE-IROC-Z

NufNuffZ28,
I am using the stock centerbolt valve covers. The rocker arms are Harland Sharps. They will usually clear stock valve covers. The only problem I've had is with clearance for the polylocks- they barely hit the top of the valve cover once its tightened down. I havn't had any problems with clearance for rocker movement though.

MikeH

iTrader: (10)

TPI GUY....I Have that same article and I beleive you forgot to mention that the Vortec heads were ported. The trickflows came straight out of the box. I dont remember anything about a major loss of torque,maybe I missed that part.

That engine also made well over 400 Horsepower with a mild cam and the Trickflows out of the box. Thats decent power for the money.

Project magnum TPI never did get a tuned prom for that setup. So.. thats not a good example.

Like Matt said there are fast cars with these heads. They just havent been on the market as long as others. I sure get a big grin everytime I step on the loud pedal. And my setup still needs alot of tuning. IM going back to the dyno Jan 2 for some more tweaking. If I could only run 100 octane sunnoco all the time I would be set.

Ive seen 13.+ cars with AFRs..none of our combos/heads will show there true potential without ALOT of tuning. Dont count them out They really are a decent heads for the money.

------------------
90 IROC
SuperRamed 406
Trickflow 23* heads

JuGrNuT350

Antone try the Scoggins Vortec base w/ the Alu. Vortec heads?? Those heads cost about as much as the Trick Flow 23s, AFRs, or Fast Burns but they have 210cc intake runners

-Timbo-

rockind78

The "aluminum vortecs" with the 210 cc intake runners ARE the Fast Burns. I don't know why they are advertised as anything different.

Matt87GTA

As stated above, those are the Fast Burns. And the Trick Flow 23* heads come in well under the Fast Burns and the AFRs (around $250 less then the FBs and up to $800 less than the AFRs, depending on which AFRs you are talking about). And if you buy the TFS 23* heads when Summit has their 10% off discount kicking (like I did - $6 shipping, no tax, and $895 for the set that I got with the upgraded valve springs ), they become pretty much the undisputed best bang-for-the-buck head out there.

------------------
1987 GTA L98 MD8
355, TFS Heads, LT4 Hot Cam
My GTA

The Minnesota F-body Club

TPI Guy

I don't remember the exact article issue, but I think it was the one the CHP put the blower on the engine. They had to switch heads to put the blower on because of the manifold issue with the vortec's.... If anyone remembers the article, let me know and I'll dig it up. The only evidence I can offer to back up my claim of increased torque are intake runner volumes.
Vortecs: 160 something
TF: 190 something
I think you are right about the porting, although, to be fair, it was a pocket port. You can do that in your garage with a dremel.
Here are the results before porting:
http://www.aros.net/~rbuck/chp/goodwrench4-4.html

------------------
355 c.i.
Dart 180 Heads
Lunati 224/224 cam
Harland Sharp 1.5 rockers
Performer RPM Manifold
Holley 600 cfm double pumper
Hooker Super Competition Headers
Flowmaster Exhaust
Competition Engineering Sub-frame connectors
Tremec TKO
Pro 5.0 Shifter
GM posi 3.42 rear
Hurst Roll Control
13.9@102
http://www.geocities.com/thetpiguy/index.html
chemjoker@aol.com

GofasterFirebird

iTrader: (3)

With trick flow heads you get what you pay for. Seemingly, only 900 bucks worth. They are decent heads just not spectacular heads. Yes, the that CHP article the vortecs were pocket ported but it only added around 9 hp. When a 195 cc head barely beats a 170cc head, I have to question that. Plus, I think the TFS flow numbers are ringers.

Now, before people start jumping on my 13.5 car with afr 190s, realize I have a puny cam, stock runners, 9.0 compression, a 100,000 mile plus short block, and a 2 flat 60. My nitroused times a a good indication of the performance potential of the afr heads.

Matt87GTA

Exactly. And who puts them on right out of the box anyways? Everyone at least cleans them up a little....

First off, CHP and accuracy in research is an oxymoron.

Secondly, to look at the intake port volume as the only deciding factor on how a head performs is ludicrus. If that was the only thing that made a difference, the Vortecs would have never been designed and built in the first place. The Vortec design itself prooves that the angle of the intake port and the shape of it have much more to do with how the head performs than the size of it's intake port (within reasonable limits of course).

So, yes, the Vortec head design is a better design than the standard 23* SBC head. Who doesn't know that. But it requires you to buy more equipment to get them incorporated into the setup which is money that could have been spent on porting the TFS heads..........

This is a pointless debate. Go with what you want, but the TFS heads are still the best bang-for-the-buck. Period.

------------------
1987 GTA L98 MD8
355, TFS Heads, LT4 Hot Cam
My GTA

The Minnesota F-body Club

TPI Guy

Trick Flows cost $900
Accel Manifold $520

Vortecs cost $430
The Vortec manifold is $400

You can pocket port the vortecs in your kitchen with a dremel for $50 and beat the Trick flows across the board.

------------------
355 c.i.
Dart 180 Heads
Lunati 224/224 cam
Harland Sharp 1.5 rockers
Performer RPM Manifold
Holley 600 cfm double pumper
Hooker Super Competition Headers
Flowmaster Exhaust
Competition Engineering Sub-frame connectors
Tremec TKO
Pro 5.0 Shifter
GM posi 3.42 rear
Hurst Roll Control
13.9@102
http://www.geocities.com/thetpiguy/index.html
chemjoker@aol.com

rockind78

Has anyone taken into account how much more compression you can run with the TF's? Also, I was mistaken earlier. It wasn't the "Junkyard Jewel" series, it was the "Tearing the Envelope" series. The TF 23* heads flat out made more power on a 383 than the Vortecs did. Anyway, my point when I ORIGINALLY mentioned the Trick Flows was to point out that I think they are a better head for the money than L98's...NOT VORTECS.

Matt87GTA

I'm not going to get into how far off your prices are there, but you also fail to identify the fact that the TFS heads are aluminum which saves weight and allows higher compression ratios to be used - both conveniently left out benefits for the TFS heads in your reply . And including the cost of a manifold base is not a valid addition for the TFS setup as you can keep your stock manifold and port it or siamese it if you want better flow - But if you go to Vortecs, you MUST buy a different manifold base. Bottom line, the TFS 23* heads are still the best bang-for-the-buck.

And if you are going to 'pocket port' one set, it would only be fair to port the other ones in a direct comparison.

------------------
1987 GTA L98 MD8
355, TFS Heads, LT4 Hot Cam
My GTA

The Minnesota F-body Club

TPI Guy

I am posting links to my unrealistic prices:
http://www.jegs.com/
Product # Description Each
310-74197 Accel Hi-Flow TPI Intake Components - SuperRam Base $ 517.99

http://www.summitracing.com/
TFS-30400001
64 cc combustion chambers, 2.02 in./1.60 in.
stainless steel valves
$895.00 *********************************************
www.sdpc2000.com
TPI Vortec Lower Intake Baseplate
Price: $399.95
Part # 12498060

Part # Part Name Price
12558060 L31 Vortec Heads -Assembled $228.75

...or Sallee
www.sallee-chevrolet.com
P/N 12558060 sale price $225.00 each or $450.00 per pair.


Matt: A few things you forgot to mention.
Trick Flows come in 64cc chambers. The compression ratio of L98s with cast iron heads and 64cc chambers is around 9.3. Trick Flows would lower the effective compression ratio to 8.3 due to the heat dissapation properties of Aluminum. Corvette Aluminums are 58cc for that exact reason. So, it doesnt really allow you to run an extra point, it forces you to. There are a lot of examples of people making more power with cast iron for this reason. Yes, Aluminum is lighter, and may net you the rough equivalent of 5 horse in weight savings.

You find me a post in which they port the TFs, and we will talk, but do not bring your unfounded reactionary claims to the table and try to pass them off as legitimate evidence.

------------------
355 c.i.
Dart 180 Heads
Lunati 224/224 cam
Harland Sharp 1.5 rockers
Performer RPM Manifold
Holley 600 cfm double pumper
Hooker Super Competition Headers
Flowmaster Exhaust
Competition Engineering Sub-frame connectors
Tremec TKO
Pro 5.0 Shifter
GM posi 3.42 rear
Hurst Roll Control
13.9@102
http://www.geocities.com/thetpiguy/index.html
chemjoker@aol.com

GofasterFirebird

iTrader: (3)

d amn it TPIguy, would you stop being right?

------------------
1991 Firebird
350 L98 (was a 305 TBI),aftermarket T-56 (in the mail) ,Edelbrock TES and cat back,Accel manifold
NOS,subframes,jegster torque arm,MSD Digital 6
AFPR,Lakewood lcas
Hurst linelock,SLP cam (206 212 .480 .486),relocated battery,cold air,Hypertech chip,centerforce df,clutch
poly bushings and mounts
AFR 190s
Harland sharp 1.5 rockers
autopower rollbar

12.33 @ 114.83 juiced uncorrected

13.510 @ 102 non juiced uncorrected

TPI Guy

Gofasterfirebird, it is just the curse I am forced to live with everyday.

88TPI406GTA

OK...now wait just a minute here. I have been watching this post and TPI Guy, you are a bit off base here. First of all, any TPI person wouldn't spend the money on an Accel base when the Edelbrock Hi-Flo base is identical for less money. I paid $399.99 from Jegs at the end of the summer for mine.
That means that the price of the base is the same.

Something else that hasn't been mentioned about the Vortec heads is that the price of the stock ones for $450 a pair are a bit misleading. They come with weak valve springs (handle .450 lift or .470 lift depending on who you believe) and they also have pressed-in studs instead of screw in. This means good luck on trying to get any revs out of it. They are great flowing heads, but they are originally truck heads and need upgrades to function well in the high performance arena. The upgraded heads are going for $500 a pair for just upgraded springs or close to $600 a pair with screw in studs. This is a more accurate price list and comparison.

Let's not also forget to look at resale value as most hot rodders end up selling their parts to upgrade to better stuff. I, personally, don't want a vortec TPI intake that forces me to use a GM-specific design. GM stuff is good, but don't think for a minute that they didn't design the Vortec bolt pattern for proprietary reasons and to make money off of it in the aftermarket. They could have designed it to bolt up to existing centerbolt designs, if they would have wanted to.

You unfortunately are also a bit off on the whole iron vs aluminum and the "effective compression ratio" deal with heat dissipation. First of all, the reason aluminum L98 heads are 58 cc is most likely due to GM's initial intentions to drop the 350 and only keep the 305 (which has 58 cc chambers on its heads). Also, they realized that swapping a 58 cc head onto the L98 in place of the 64 cc L98 iron head would mean a bit of a compression and hence, a power increase, just by itself. It is easier to swap heads than pistons to increase compression.

As for this statement, "Trick Flows would lower the effective compression ratio to 8.3 due to the heat dissapation properties of Aluminum." What? I have never seen anything that states this...anywhere. You are trying to take the proven statement that aluminum will allow you to run higher compression on pump gas due to the heat dissipation effect and effectively extrapolate it backwards, which you can't do. Once you have a certain compression ratio, your cylinder pressure is a set amount. So, if you have a 9.5 to 1 ratio with either aluminum or iron head, the cylinder pressure will be the same. Check out this month's Car Craft article about the effect on compression on power.

As for the heat dissipation properties of aluminum, if it is better to have a lot more
heat in the combustion chamber, then why do people run lower thermostats and try to keep the engine running under 200 degrees instead of the stock higher temperature that the L98 is set to operate at? Because higher temperatures are NOT good for producing power, but better emissions. You are not FORCED to run a higher compression ratio with aluminum. Aluminum ALLOWS you to run higher compression on pump gas for a bit more power.

TPI Guy, I have seen you make some pretty good posts on this board and overall you tend to be a good contributor. So don't ruin it by copping an attitude with incorrect information. From what I have seen on this message board and others, Matt tends to make good solid statements as well with supporting evidence. It just comes down to how well you plan your engine out and what your personal preference is.

-Adam
88 TPI 406 GTA

[This message has been edited by 88TPI406GTA (edited December 14, 2001).]

Matt87GTA

You have some kind of ego there, ace.

------------------
1987 GTA L98 MD8
355, TFS Heads, LT4 Hot Cam
My GTA

The Minnesota F-body Club

Matt87GTA

Adam beat me to a lot of the points that I was going to use. I said I didn't want to get into the prices for a reason and he pretty much covered all of it. You assume far too much and conveniently pick what parts to use in your 'comparison' to better suit your points. And since when did this debate start going off the assumption that we had to use a stock L98 short block?

First off, do not ever tell me what to do or come at me with that tone. Do you understand me? Good........

Secondly, are you trying to say that porting the TF heads will not improve them? You can port them and work on them on a flow bench, but there is no possible way to make them perform any better than they do out of the box????? Remember that all I said was that if you are going to port one head in a direct comparison, then you must port the other one to keep the comparison valid.

TPI Guy, I really think you are smart and have a lot to offer us here. But just sit back and have a beer before you fly off the handle during your replys. Nobody here knows everything - NOBODY.

And as for you GoFasterFirebird, stop kissing his a$$.... ** shakes head **

------------------
1987 GTA L98 MD8
355, TFS Heads, LT4 Hot Cam
My GTA

The Minnesota F-body Club

MikeH

iTrader: (10)

LOL.....I think Matt and Adam have the facts right. TPI guy.. when you are done porting those vortec heads in your kitchen. Look at the facts and you will find that you are wrong. I was trying to follow your point until you made that statement.

From what Ive read out of the box on a 350 with around 400 horsepower the TFs heads are good for 15-20 horsepower over the vortecs.

You start adding more RPM,cam,displacement. The Trickflows will blow the vortec head away.

Acceld Z

Let's keep it civil gentlemen, so that another post full of valuable info does not get locked and killed. I'd rather pull my finger nails out than attempt to port a set of cast iron heads with a Dremel tool But that's just me. You could polish the runners and bowls but I think actually removing material would be rather difficult.

Arianboy

Geez guys. Has Hot Rodding in itself become far to easy with the miriad of "Bolt-On's" available or what???

As I see it there is really on three reasons to go with a Cast Iron head anyway:

1. Your broke/poor and can't afford anything better... even at a swap meet... (this would happen to be my peticular problem)

2. Your running such astronimically high temperatures, like those generally produced by turbo driven cars, that you are actually worried about the expansion rate between Cast Iron and Aluminum. In which case something would be prone to crack/break/explode (not always in that order) at any given moment durring the engines operation.

3. You have no idea of what you're talking about, and want to sound like the tough guy/know it all. That or you've got A LOT of time on your hands in which to port out said heads and still not see the kinds of gains from Aluminum heads outta the box.

Bottom line is that I believe Hot Rodding has gotten far too easy! When how much HP you make depends on how much cash you've got. But then hey, what ever trips your trigger right!? As long as you're havin' a good time drive on!

------------------
Arianboy
'86 IROC-Z
Gotta save the cash 'cuz 165 HP ain't gonna cut it!
Working on a mild mouse (400hp Goal)
Headman headers
B&M Ripper Shifter
mnfbody.com

GofasterFirebird

iTrader: (3)

88406, I don't even know where to start on your post. When I have more time I will disprove your cylinder pressure theory, among others.

Matt87, your humor and a$$ kissing jokes are really funny, really.

Matt87GTA

Thanks.

TPI Guy

I will start here:
88TPI406GTA, this is a Christmas gift for you:
#1. Compression Ratio
http://www.airflowresearch.com/Articles/A15-P2.htm
"...Because aluminum rejects heat faster than cast iron, traditional wisdom holds that an aluminum head wont make as much power as an equivalent iron head..."

Because the two materials have different heat dissipation properties (AL>FE) the heads acts as a heat sync. Heat is thermal energy. It comes from the stuff you blow up in your cylinder. The head allows more heat to escape yet retains the same temperature as a comparable iron head. Were do you think this energy comes from? The extra stuff escaping is energy from as being blown up, not transferred into power, but rather, dissipated into the atmosphere.

#2. 58cc v 64cc
Run 58cc iron heads on a 350 with flat tops, zero deck height, and on 87 octane. See what happens.

#3.The Edelbrock base has sealing problems around the injectors. Rich at Cruzin performance can back me up, so can the product review board. I paid 385 for my Accel base, but it was a special promo. I do not feel it is fair to include one time only or swap meet prices in a price comparison.

#4. Vortec heads reach a stall velocity somewhere in the neighborhood of .500
www.chevyhiperformance.com
(170 cc runners) Vortec
I E w/pipe
.100 70 49
.200 139 105
.300 190 137
.400 227 151
.500 239 160
.600 229 162

...so unless you port for flow at .700 lift, you will not see a lot of power from large(above .500) lift.


Trick Flow (195cc)
.100 65 70
.200 133 102
.300 188 140
.400 226 164
.500 250 183

...but there is more to power than just flow numbers. Another sinificant factor is swirl. You can read on AFRs website a little about the importance of swirl on power. Vortecs have a lot of it, Trick Flows do not. (gm hi tech)

#5. Vortec raised runner design
A conspiracy? Vortecs made for the expressed purpose of aftermarket exploitation? Does this somehow relate to your theory on who shot Kennedy?

I have no idea why you believe aluminum is superior to cast iron. The head is just a passageway through which air moves. You can have the exact same runner design machined out of two different materials. With AL, you save a little weight, and have less machining costs, but its not as strong.

Matt87gTA:

Chill out. Discussions are often limited to the L98s because this is the TPI board. L98s (and their half-breed cousin the 305)= TPI. For that reason, it is assumed, unless otherwise specified.

I just pocket ported a set of cast iron gm heads the other day. NOT DIFFICULT provided you do not knick a valve seat.

My problem:
I go to great lengths to post my info, were I get my info, and link my info. Some of you do the same, but most of you bench race. Your information is not backed up with any evidence whatsoever. I'm sorry, but I won't accept unfounded opinions as evidence.

Acceld Z

Tpi Guy, holy crap, get over yourself It's nice that you want educate/enlighten us with your knowledge but why don't you try to do it without being obnoxious.

TPI Guy

Hey, why don't we just remove all of the tech content and resort to simple name calling, that way everyone can participate. I'll start: Acceld Z, you are a dummy-head. Now you go.

Acceld Z

At what point did I resort to name calling? I don't think that I did.Your points are all valid and I agree with most of them. "Tech Content" is what we are here for but don't mix in insults and inane remarks with that "Tech Content". For instance.....I had no idea that the Edelbrock base plates had sealing problems. I just learned that. Thank you.

#2. 58cc v 64cc
Run 58cc iron heads on a 350 with flat tops, zero deck height, and on 87 octane. See what happens.

If it's a modern chamber/port design and your prom calibration is good, you won't have any problems.