Dont worry about long posts..it provides more info I totally see your point and I do know all of the theorys.For me since my dd car spend more time on the highway than the actual street I went with my setup.

I just dont want others to get the idea that even if you switched to an hsr that you wont make decent torque down low.I loved my 355 tpi and granted its low hp and off the line high torque my traction was non existent.Both intakes are great just depends what you want to do with it.

Over time my tpi started to get rather boring and more and more cars were starting to walk me and pull lengths past second gear.Sure it was peppy on the gas and made great burnouts with no effort.And I found it not as great for fuel consumption.

My hsr setup is still great for the street and good on the highway.My car is good for street/strip since I tend to get on it more than most.If I had no intentions of racing other cars but had a nice sounding and quick light to light beast I would have done a modded tpi to balance out hp and torque a lil more.

 

Theres the whole thing right there build for what you want to do. To me unless your running a 305 or smaller the factory tpi is just inadequate because for the 350 for example running out of breath at 4,500 just isnt much fun unless your running a truck pull. But a good long tube runner set up can perform all the way up to 5-5.5k which is great for the street. Again not that the stealth ram or other intakes are bad just that each does some things better than others. Depending on what you favor will determine which way you go. Comparably modded long tube runners vs something like a stealth ram the long tube runners usually come out on top till somewhere in the 4-5k region then they start to lose their edge. Now yes as others have argued earlier you could grind out the dividers on a after market long tube runner till its only 2-3 inches long to get it to perform better in the high end but then it just performs more like the stealth ram in the sence it trades bottom end for bottom end because its not really a long tube runner anymore. Its just a matter of where you lay preference and pick whatever fit matches your needs. In this case I feel that long tube runners are the best match.

 

why do you keep saying the HSR is not good for the street and has to high of a band.. and think it will not operate until around 4,500.. it has a RPM range from idle to 6,000.. yes TPI has the Best bottom end you can get..
the HSR is not far from it!!
and when they did the test.. what cam was used? one to compliment TPI or HSR.. and stock heads were used in the test as well correct? thats great for the TPI.. and limits the HSR 's true potential. it would make a big difference.. the tunnel ram system is the best for power & RPM the HSR is based off this design.. I will post my HSR dyno run in a few weeks for you to compare.
I can tell you my last TPI build I could not hook up
and roasted my tires over 1,000 feet Auto 3:23 gears.. thats great for a burn out show. street or track what good is that.. it takes both HP & TRQ they need compliment each other.. here is a pretty nice link to explain HP and TRQ
Happy reading.. http://www.vettenet.org/torquehp.html

 

Its not that the stealth ram dosnt perform till 4,500 just that typically when you look at the dyno sheets of comparably built motors aftermarket long tube runners vs the stealth ram typically the long tube runner has the edge from idle to somewhere between 4-and 5 k at which point the stealth ram takes over. Parts used in thoes tests were not stock heads (one i believe was using modded factory votechs i dont recall the other but ive included all the links). Same for cams i don't recall the specific specs but ive included all the links. Ill agree that a cam thats best for TPI wont be best for a stealth ram but going with your logic if they used a cam best for TPI for both intakes it would be too tame for the stealth ram which would limit its high end but should improve its low end however in both tests the long tube runner still out performed the stealth ram untill the mid 4ks. On the other hand if they used a cam for the stealth ram on the TPI this would hurn the TPIs low end without making much in the line of improvements in the top end. Either way you look at it the bottom end of the TPI is better. Heads are really same deal. Heads that are too big for TPI will hurt the bottom end without improving the top end and heads that are too small for the stealth ram will limit the low end but improve the bottom end. Again I cannot stress enough that its not that the stealth ram doesn't produce low end torque long tube runners just do it better and when your building a motor thats just going to cruise around on the street why not maximize the power in that range? Just like if you were strictly racing you wouldn't really be concerned with preserving your bottom end only maximizing your top end. That comment I made about out accelerating the stealth ram in the city driving is because when your putting around at 2k the long tube runners have the edge all other aspects of the cars being equal. Its not an insult to the stealth ram just fact. Once it gets out of the low end yea the stealth ram will take over and start to gain but thats why i said the TPI motor will feel powerful and be more fun. I think its best summed up by this statement from a Chrysler engineer who worked with one of the early long tube runner intakes back in the 60s.

"I would agree that it's really silly to manifold tune for an rpm which you won't even "see" after the WOT shift out of first gear. I say this even though I was at Chrysler when they did exactly that with their long branch intake manifolds. My boss in the Vehicle Performance Department tried to point this out at the time, but he didn't have enough clout. The bean counters were given rides in the early project cars and they were impressed and that's all it took. After it was too late, a "drag race" was surreptitiously arranged, at the proving grounds, between a Chrysler with the "ram" manifold and another identical car with the conventional dual quad setup. The conventional "ran off and hid" from the ram.

But, with the throttle blades upstream of the plenum, the ram did give a very good part throttle "feel," which is why the bean counters were impressed. So, I'm sure there are those who would opt for the ram, even though WOT performance was actually poorer."

As you can see like ive said the long runner system felt better when driving it (due to the improved low end and resulting better acceleration) and was the motor of choice of Chrysler brass. This would be a great motor for the street but on the drag strip would get blown away as it did. Same here TPI is great for the street but would get blown away by a stealth ram on the drag strip. The stealth ram isnt bad on the street the long tube runner is just better because its tailored for the low end where you typically are on the street. Also on a after market TPI intake there is a balance of hp and torque (though definitely favoring the bottom end). Aftermarket long tube runners intakes can build power into the 5-5.5k range on a 350 and can get into the 400s properly built. Considering this is a street motor and factory motors are only rated for 5.5k max RPM and street motors are typically in the low end this is perfect. Again a stealth ram would produce more hp but on the street its better to favor the low end not the top end. We can all agree TPI has the best low end and the stealth ram has the better top end and no ones arguing that the stealth ram is a dog in the low end. Were all entitled to our opinions. In your eyes you think the trade off of low end torque is worth the hp gains because the torque is so abundant where as I dont see the point in trading usable low end torque for top end power you wont hardly get to use on the street. Cant it just be left at that? No right or wrong answer just a difference of opinions. Either way its a matter of preference thats based on what people expect from their cars.

 

Well I live in Western North Carolina, and street races around here very rarely ever see 100 mph. If your hittin 100 you better hit the brakes cause you about to not make the sharp curve and either go over the bank or up the bank. So for me I think the tpi is going to be the best choice. Red light to red light on friday and saturday is all that matters around here. So If I do happen to get beat by a turboed 4cyl on the interstate It wont bother me cause at the end of the day....I still have a third gen and they dont.
I have been reading all of these posts about peoples build and I got to say there have been some really good ideas. So my build is more than likley going to be as follows.
350 Bored 0.020 over. Complete rebuild kit with hyd flat tops also 0.020 over.
new tpis springs, seats, screw in studs, and 1.6 roller rockers. W/ 4.3 vortech retainers, and positive seals
I'm going to port the heads myself(have the tools at the shop i wrk in)
tpis long tube runners and big mouth intake
adjustable fpr and 24lb injectors
double roller timing chain
comp cam
duration 264/269
at .50 212/218
lift 488/495 112 lsa
And tuning done by hawks in Sc
and one day i hope to upgrade to a th56

 

Im not saying anything is right or wrong either.Just opinions and good questions being brought up and being answered which I gotta say for a thread like this ..is going well without anyone really being flamed.

if you looking for a nasty street cruise/bruiser..383 tpi will scare many away if you get it to dead hook lol.A customer of mine has a iroc with a 383 tpi and supporting tpi mods and its a torque freak when it grabs and pulls the front up.It has a very snappy throttle response and sounds like any other cammed 350 out there untill he gives it.Not high on hp but he has to be tickling the 500tq mark at the fly.it never sees the highway or very rare having 4:10 gear on a 700r4.

Driving something like that is fun but I dont like all that torque off the line around here where its soo easy to break tires free its an instant ticket and points.

I think someone has been able to open up a tpi and pull upto 6400 rpm or close to it on a heavily moddified system and made very good numbers.Thats a very stout tpi that will not only have great torque to take ls1s off the line but keep its leads for quite sometime aswell if you ever race it hard.

 

LunaticinaZ that sounds like it would be a nice cruiser with some extra grunt.What do you plan to do for exhaust and are you going to stall the tranny some more? if you put a t56 behind it would make that avery fun car to drive around town...id love to put one in mine aswell but the swap is still way out of my budget.

I liked driving the 305 tpi with 5spd..they are always fun

 

Rolling thunder, I've enjoyed reading your responses. Not because your fact and figures are right or wrong, but because of your perspective on the whole discussion!

Guys, I came up with a certain realization YEARS ago. ...and that is that for all the facts and figures and opinions here on TGO, or on ANY car website, everything is pretty much worthless. ...and the sooner you realize that, and you wrap your head around that concept, the sooner you'll really be able to learn something.

We're just talking torque and HP, and a smidge about gearing. What about differently geared transmissions? There ARE more than one option ya know. What about tire size? Heck, what about air pressure? What about weight? Well, it's a street car, so it's not gonna be stripped, but what about actual DRIVER weight!?!?!? What about air temperature? The variables that we are NOT discussing are infinite.
But, let's assume just for a minute that everything is constant except for torque, HP, and gearing, and that you're either a drag racer or a street driver. That really narrows down the facts and figures a little. Even then, how many of us (some I'm sure) can really fully understand what it means to make 14 less horespower, but 11 MORE foot pounds of torque at a give RPM? Seriously, right now, off the top of your head, how many of you even know your HP and TQ specs at 2800 RPM? ...and if you DO, then how many of you know what it FEELS LIKE to have 15 more or less HP/Tq? We all know facts and figures, and we like to think we know what it means on the butt dyno, but I'm here to tell you most of us don't. I'll guarantee I can convince myself my car is faster when it's clean, and part of me beleives it, ya know???

I'm a graphic artist. The human eye can distinguish around 10 million different colors. That being said, even your OWN two eyes perceive colors differently. Nothing makes me laugh like when people say, "we want our logo to be blue". I could cry. ...but I've learned that it is what it is. I've gotta work around the lowest common denominator, not the highest. Having this discussion about cams and intakes is like asking a bunch of Carolina and Duke fans to discuss the color blue.

My boy wants to know if a certain cam is too big, but at this point we all might as well be debating politics and religion.

To summarize: You really have to understand whether or not your looking for a black and white answer, or an opinion. ...and when you're looking for an opinion, you have to be able to....somehow find a way to put a value on someone's answer. Just because someone is knowledgable and respected doesn't mean their opinion will be right for you.

 

Thats why there soo many options to build a car to suit you..start with a plan..research if it will work as planned..then build it..test it..drive it

As long as your happy with the end result that makes it all worth it.

 

yea but i wouldnt openly talk about carolina and duke.......well atleast not carolina's basketball team....sheesh they have never been this bad.
But I have shorty headers with 3" exhaust stainless steel, duel cats to a duel inlet super 44 and duel outlet 2.5 to 3" tips and I currently have a WC T-5 tranny. and your right i would love to install a TH56 but thats out of my (my wifes) range of money I have to spend on my camaro.

But you guys are right. atleast for me anyhow, I dont know that stuff right off the top of my head. But I do know that my stock 350 would burn my tires off all day long until I got my z rated soft compound tires. Now it hooks like a **** and goes. And I'm up in the mnts so the air is thinner up here and i'll have to compensate for that. but other than that i'm gonna build it drive it and if theres something i dont like i'll change it until i do like it.

 

I dont know what the hangup is over low end torque, if you ask me its a completely backwards method of thinking. Its a V8, its making PLENTY of torque. We are not driving soda bottle sized 4 bangers. I have a stock GTA convertible that does not have any more power on the street than my dads GP that has a 350 with a TPI and just about every part to kill torque aside of stock runners. In fact, I'd say my GTA has less power. This is pretty much the same story for all the other guys out here in Socal doing siamesed runners and whatnot. They're making a lot more power on the top, the cars are a lot faster than they ever were, and driving around town there is more than enough power for anything. This whole trading off low end for high end is a silly argument to make, as I said... its a V8. Its making PLENTY of torque. Even with the stock converter that would flash to about 2200RPM my dads GP would still roast the tires off. With whats on there now, and with the siamesed intake I had on there. The only place you're going to get to putting all your concern about not killing the low end power of a TPI is down the track slower than anyone else. The only time you should have any concern over low RPM torque is if you have a pickup truck and you are towing things. I dont think that applies to anyone here, aside of one or two people who actually have a TPI in a truck.

 

I get what your saying entirely but look at it this way. If I was going to give you $50 worth of gift cards no matter what store their too its great getting free money theirs no wrong way here lol. However if you had a choice between getting a $50 gift card to walmart or a $35 giftcard to walmart and a $15 gift card to a place like home depot which would you rather have? I think most people would just want the $50 walmart gift card because thats whats most practical to them. However you may be a contractor actually shop at the home depot quite often so for you the $35 walmart gift card/$15 home depot card combo is more useful to you. And thats what it boils down to what parts can we recommend to get the most for out of that motor considering what he wants. Although all V8s will generate good torque for the most part the thing is where that torque is in the low end or the high end (more commonly known as high end hp)? For a cruiser to me it makes sense to shift the torque curve to favor the bottom end. However if you were big into racing this would be a terrible idea you would want to shift your torque into the high end. Here we have an opportunity to make recommendations to try and MAXIMIZE your usable power. And although I hear what your saying the low end still makes good torque even if you sacrifice some but to me if you spend 99% of your time in the low end why not try to MAXIMIZE your low end? Its a matter of practicality just like you wouldnt sacrifice low end to build a motor to produce power to 10k if your rev limit is 5.5k. Your just making a sacrifice to not really see anything in return. Not to mention just like the stealth ram is not slouch in the bottom end a aftermarket long tube runner set up I dont think is being given enough credit for what it can do in the top end its pretty respectable. Its not like long tube runners dont generate top end it just doesn't do it as well as other intakes just like the stealth ram's low end its not bad but other intakes do it better. Now for you you may rather have a bit more top end and there's nothing wrong with that the point is to build power where you use it. If you race it makes sense to build up your top end if you just cruise it makes sense to build up the bottom end because your building power where you'll use it. For this case I think an aftermarket long tube runner set up is best because although it places emphasis on the low end where he would be most of the time but it would also allow the motor to build good power to 5-5.5k so its a good balance I think. It places alot of emphasis where hell be 99% of the time but still offers some good top end for those occasional blasts. To me the stealth ram is just the opposite it places emphasis on the top where he dosnt spend much time while still offering good low end where he does spend a lot of time. In this case I just dont think the stealth ram is a good match for what he would be using the car for.

 

Well I see that he wants to build a motor that he likes to race from light to light. Now what he doesn't realize is that too much torque will burn the tires off the line and will still lose the race. He would even burn the tires at a 20-35mph roll and still lose the race and still won't be happy especially if you are still running 3.23 gears. A stealthram works very well with 3.73's. It will accelerate like having lots of torque with 3.23's. So the question is what are you really trying to do?

 

Yea but thats what I mean about a car being a total package and that all parts need to be picked to work together including tires and suspension ect. With some good mods the traction can be improved upon a great bit allowing the car as a whole to work together to make better use of that low end torque. Also to meantion althogh traction would be an issue from a stand still even while driving at speeds most of the time your still in the low RPM and traction is not really such a big issue.

 

Well, lets look at the table posted on the prior page, with the single plane and miniram dropped off because, lets face it, those have a single purpose.

RPM -- TPI -- TPiS -- ASM -- ASR -- HSR
2600 - 0 ___ +7 ___ -2 ___ -12 ___ -10
2800 - 0 ___ +13 ___ -1 ___ -17 ___ -16
3000 - 0 ___ +11 ___ +2 ___ -20 ___ -23
3200 - 0 ___ +18 ___ 0 ___ -12 ___ -20
3400 - 0 ___ +16 ___ +3 ___ -2 ___ -19
3600 - 0 ___ +17 ___ +2 ___ -1 ___ -18

I'll bet most of us could barely notice the 20hp difference, in fact the lower torque is going to make tirespin less of an issue... and that is doing you a favor. However, lets look at what happens at the upper end:

4200 - 0 ___ +30 ___ +18 ___ +15 ___ -3
5000 - 0 ___ +44 ___ +48 ___ +44 ___ +51
6000 - 0 ___ +44 ___ +43 ___ +47 ___ +95

This isnt about Walmart and Home Depot gift cards, its about making your car faster and keeping it driveable. Notice at 2600, there really is not that much of a difference in ANY of them. Its only when the TPI starts to hit the peak from the harmonic (3000 or so) that it makes any significant amount of HP over the others (and its not much at that), and then (4200+) its all over. From 5000 to 6000, the TPI shows how awful it is at high RPM's. Like I said, this is great if you're towing... build it up around that purpose, it'll make a real nice low RPM torque curve. For a car, driven on the street, raced sometimes, it is not your friend.

 

When I was driving my last set-up....

357" TPI roller block with 193 swirl port (factory replacement) heads and a peanut 305 cam 179/194 duration with .350/.384" lift. (DON'T ASK)
A torque motor if you will.......293ft/lbs @3149 198rwhp @ 3730

I would cruise around in 2nd gear 3000 RPM/35mph or so (which was my sweet spot) and wait for people to wanna go..... spank them for 200feet and fall on my face waiting for the 3rd gear shift....

It's fun for awhile, but come on............ it gets old fast
So I switched to a HSR/AFR's and a cam with more duration. It definately doesn't feel like the TPI TQ Monster but I'm happier with the extended RPM range and can lite the tires up if I want to....
330 Hp @ 5300
349 Ft/Lbs @ 4600

Things might be different if you could short shift a 5 speed

 

Well there's a few areas where you confused on so before I get into the details let me straighten a few things out. First and for most when you copied that chart you overlooked something. The TPI column is FACTORY TPI. Now Ive said time and time again that the factory TPI is pretty inadaquite except for like trucks and small displacement v8s (5.0 and less). The category you should be comparing against is the TPIS set up which is comprised of ported factory plenum and base with aftermarket runners If i recall correctly. So the difference between a good long tube runner set up and the stealth ram in the low end is between 20-40 hp roughly not just 20 hp. You also mentioned that the hp at 2600 isnt really all that different. And although by comparison against factory TPI intake i could go with the idea that there close enough to be in the same ballpark but were comparing the stealth ram against the aftermarket long tuber runner set up which is a difference in 17 hp ill touch on this again later. Second you say the point is pretty much to make it as fast as possible while still being drivable. That is not what i call a "street car" or a "cruiser" thats at best a street strip car. Also though ive said it many times before it seems that this fact seems to be getting missed. LONG TUBE RUNNERS ARE NOT FOR RACING! They are designed to build up the low/mid range which is perfect for a car that is driven on the street as a daily driver or just a weekend cruiser as in a fun car. Now you've also mentioned that you probably hardly feel 20 hp and your half right here. You cannot feel horsepower its not a force its a measure of power you feel torque. Not you might still go with that logic hp and torque are related so an increase in hp would increase the torque so you would in essence be the same thing but thats not really right either because a change in 20hp in the bottom end will not have the same feel as 20hp in the top end because again you feel torque and to gain 20hp it takes more torque in the low end than in the high end. Lets follow that idea of is it a difference you would feel on the street though. Seeing as how all those values are hp differences comparing the TPIS system to the stealth ram lets look at 3k because thats a RPM you spend a lot of time at on the street. the difference between the stealth ram and the TPIS intake is 34 HP converting that to torque is roughly 60 foot pounds of torque that would be a very noticeable thing. Keep in mind that that is the difference in torque at the flywheel now multiply that out by the gearing in the trans and rear axle. Long story short the difference is pretty big. Comming back to the HP difference at 2600 RPMs only being 17 hp converting that to torque its roughly 34 ftlbs of torque which would again be pretty noticeable. Looking at the charts the stealth ram only out performs the TPIS set up from somewhere in the upper 4k region on up. Even at 5 k you would hardly notice the gain of 7 hp because that only equates to about 7 foot lbs of torque. The stealth ram does have a very significant advantage at 6k which would be great if people actually drove around on the street at 6K but they dont the only time you will get up that high is when racing which coming back to what ive said earlier LONG TUBE RUNNERS ARE NOT FOR RACING! Not to mention factory motors are only rated for up to 5.5k RPMs as there red line so building power 5.5k+ RPMs kinda useless unless you have supporting mods to allow you to rev that high. This motor is not an attempt to be the fastest thing out its meant to be the most fun. The long tube runner set up will feel much more powerful have great pep/throttle response and would be an ideal candidate for a daily driven street car or weekend cruiser and would offer a significant gain in performance over the stock TPI intake.

 

Again thats why you gotta decide what you want the car to do.No point in building a high output motor if your not going to use it for what its worht.My car is a street strip car that can be daily driven aswell. My 355 tpi was a great motor and very torquey but that fun didnt last long for me and became boring as i got more into racing and cruising at higher rpm it was out of breath.

If i were to build a truck.. Id sure use tpi for this purpose for a work truck.It will barely see 5grand rpm and it will pull its weight and then some with a full load in the back.Switched a friends truck from tbi to tpi and it was perfect match and a few bolts ons and gear change will make it even better.

I wouldnt say factory long tube isnt good for racing either though..if your doing 1/8th mile runs at the track with maybe some et streets for the weekend..you would have a potent car lol.Just gotta pick your battles and know where you can win

 

I'm well aware its a factory TPI. And so its NOT FOR RACING. So what? If all we're concerned with is somewhere other than full throttle, none of the refuting evidence you posted is worth the time to copy and paste. You'd be best off sticking with the stock motor and saving your cash. If its the 15-30HP (or 25-55TQ) for a limited RPM range, its not going to get you from A-B any faster. There are volumes of timeslips around this site to show that. You dont even need to go past the 60' mark.

I dont know what this is about spending most of your time at 3k RPM. When I'm driving around, the RPM is generally in the 1500-2000 range, unless I floor it. At that point, I sure hope I'm not spending a lot of time at 3k RPM.


All I did was copy your chart and address the units that were there. Now you want to make an argument of TQ vs HP and put that on me for copying the chart YOU posted? Ok...
Maybe if you wanted to argue about torque you should have converted the data. Its not that hard to do.

This argument is really old and tired, and its always the same thing, the same argument, the same points, and the same slow TPI cars.

 

Well you very well could argue that the aftermarket long tube runner set up isnt worth the money. If the gains arnt worth the money to you thats ok thats your oppinion. Although when i look at the numbers presented and i see that it builds power an extra thousand RPMs higher with an additional 44 hp in the top end and improves the bottom end across the rev range tested. To me that would be a worth while gain worth the cost of runners. On the 3k RPM I didnt say you spend MOST of your time there only that you spend a lot of time there. Keep in mind you feel nothing if your just cruiseing at the same speed. Every time I accelerate be it light, heavy or anything in between passing on the highway or coming off a stop light i'm going to spend a fair amount of time around the 3k region. Where as on the street my car (and i suspect many others) has NEVER seen 6k. Perhaps I could have been more clear on that part of things. Also on the data posted it made sense to post it in terms of HP for what I was trying to show which was that the stealth ram only really has an advantage up in the mid high 4k region on up. You reposted the data to make a new argument about the low end and "feeling" 20 hp. It dosnt make sense to talk about "feeling" hp if you want to talk about feel then you have to talk torque which I did. Also a good TPI set up isnt slow. On both tests it got up into the 400 hp range. Sure its not as fast as the stealth ram but that hardly makes it slow. Not to mention as 86White_T/A305 said there are places where they could be faster like in the 1/8 mile for example or street light to street light. Basically again it comes back to what you want. If you competitively race longer distances like the 1/4 or on the highway or spend more time in the mid high 4k region on up for whatever reason then yea a stealth ram might make scene for you but if you don't which most real street cars don't then long tubes are the way to go in my opinion.

 

Dude, Rolling Thunder, I felt I needed to post up and show some support. I'm here, reading and following along. I've pretty much given up on debating the differences of words like, "fast", "hard", "quick", "feel", and "better", so I'm staying out.

...just know that I'm here.....

 

Wow I dont see why this is being so difficult.RollingThunder has many valid points and I do agree with him for the given application.Why is that so hard to comprehend that based on the everyday car and light highway duty car there is nothing wrong with building a tpi motor to work very well in those parameters.

The only reason I posted my questions towards the hsr was based apon my own driving style and stating that my car isnt a daily cruiser hence the term street/strip.
Also note the Rollingthunder isnt saying that hsr wont make decent torque off the line either..just not as much for every given rpm till around 400rpm where the intakes show there true colors.

All I wanted to basiacally say is that dyno numbers dont really have its weight in gold either..everything else attached to the engine itself can make or take away from the tq and hp.if you build a stout tpi motor but have a pegleg no posi rearend and 2.73 gear your not going to get the most out of all that toque down low either and the same principle can be applied to the hsr where it might lack the tq off the line..good rear gear and better tires etc can help make the difference.

I fully understand where he is coming from,i think he acknowledges my insight aswell.Bottom line is you build the motor based apon your intentions but it doesnt just stop there..everything else will be ideal for you if you factor in tranny..gears,tires etc

If you plan on running upto or past 600rpm.. then look into upgrading the induction..if not then the tpi will be better suited.No need for this to become a heated debate to take away from the OP's thread..which Im not even sure what he decided to do.Any updates?

 

Its quite understandable, I don't blame you for wanting to stay out of this one but I thank you for the support though! lol Its one of those things when ever you weigh in on something thats a matter of opinion you have to expect there will be some debate lol. Especially when your trying to weigh in on something like what a person would be most "happy" with. Its an area where your forced to talk about things that cannot necessarily be quantified like feel and perception. Like in my story from earlier with Chryslers long ram intake design although slower on the drag strip those who drove it loved it because of how it felt to drive. Not that a debate is a bad thing though as long as it stays civil an open debate can be very informative but you cant have a debate unless someone is willing to stand up for the other side of things otherwise no one will hear that side of the argument. Really thats the only reason I debate these sorts of issues so that people like yourself can read the information presented and come to their own conclusion of whats "right." At the time I'm writing this post this thread has had 627 views which shows that there's either a lot of interest in this subject or people just enjoy watching the drama unfold lol. Kind of like a mans soap opera lol. Either way though I do hope that the people who have read or will someday read get something from this discussion be it long tube intakes vs the stealth ram, practical theory on how to chose parts, or just a little entertainment. Though I realize that not everyone's going to agree with my stance and I dont expect people to and I also realize this discussion could go on till the end of time long after the gen 1 SBC no longer exists without even discussing any of the other intakes on the market still feel its still worth debating if for no other reason than to give people a little incite on the basic theories and opinions of how to chose any part thats right for you because those concepts go far beyond the topic at hand. To me it is a just cause worth a little of my time.

 

Deleted accidentally posted twice

 

I think you've summed things up quite well. There's no right or wrong just pros and cons to be weighed out against what a person plans to use if for. Whats right for one is not right for all both intakes have their place. I just feel that in this particular case the long tubes are a better choice.

 

86whitet/a305
I plan to go with the tpi and ltr. I live in the mountains so torque is my friend here and My car will mostly be crusing the town and backroads looking only as good as a 3rd gen can. Burnouts are absolutly going to happen but racing will be minimun.
But I plan plan to build the motor that I listed in this post with the smaller cam than I had originaly thought.
350 Bored 0.020 over. Complete rebuild kit with hyd flat tops also 0.020 over.
new tpis springs, seats, screw in studs, and 1.6 roller rockers. W/ 4.3 vortech retainers, and positive seals
I'm going to port the heads myself(have the tools at the shop i wrk in)
tpis long tube runners and big mouth intake
adjustable fpr and 24lb injectors
double roller timing chain
comp cam
duration 264/269
at .50 212/218
lift 488/495 112 lsa
And tuning done by hawks in Sc
and one day i hope to upgrade to a th56
And from the feedback I have got from you guys this build will suit me well for what I want out of my car. And how its going to be drivin. It will Probably never see 6k rpms
the most will be around 5k and that will be rare.(only when racing or showing off for my wife)