i'm planing on rebuilding my engine and decided I want to go the 383 route but I want it to look practically stock and be emissions legal so I'm sticking with tpi. anybody have any guesses on what kind of hp and TQ the following build should put out. I'm hoping it will be over 400hp and sure the tq will beat that
-forged rotating assembly (overkill but peace of mind)
-possibly splayed 4 bolt mains (see above)
-siamesed stock base and plenum extrude honed
-as&m runners siamesed at entry and exit, also extrud honed
-AFR 195cc 64 cc l98 heads (looking at 9.8:1 compression from parts I've sourced)
-1.6 full roller rockers (possibly narrow body if they'll clear the stock valve covers w/o mods)
-comp 268xfi hr13 cam
-30# injectors
-2800 or so locking TC
-SD TPI if that has any major effect
-1-5/8 headers and 3-1/2 exhaust
any suggestion on the injectors and exhaust size would be appreciated but like i said I want it to look stock (plan on painting the AFRs black to keep with it I know there's heat retention there but shouldn't matter with low compression) so don't tell me to go HSR. I'M STICKING WITH TPI!

also if someone would like to run a 1/4 E.T. simulator I plan on going with 3.42s and 700-r4 (a stronger version though)

 

the edelbrock base might hold you back a little. The heads are going to be to small. Some AFR 195 will be much better. A set of dyno dons shorty headers along with his y pipe and a good 3 inch exhaust will be your best bet. Much easier than a true dual system, with any ground clearance lost.As for a torque converter, a vigilante 3000 or 3500 lockup converter would be optimal.
With the combo you want, I think that may be hard to get 400hp. But you may be in the 350 range. My 383 combo makes 476hp and 496 tq and can get 19 mpg on the streets.

 

I like your goal of stock looking 383 TPI. Similar to mine, haven't decided on 350 or 383 yet. Have you seen this article?
http://www.compcams.com/Community/Ar...?ID=1737510521
It is mainly a TPI intake comparison on 383. They don't specify what size heads other than TFS heads and comp cam 288hr cam. Setup looks similar to yours. You can see stock TPI vs edelbrock vs TPIS systems.

-edelbrock hi-flow base port matched and probably ported
I think it flows decent out of box but needs a lot of porting or extrued honing to flow enough air for 383 TPI.

-as&m/TPIS runners (same thing arent they?)
yes, TPIS repackages as&m runners. TPIS runners are good ones as edlebrocks don't flow much more than stock. Have you looked into a FIRST intake? If you have none of above intake parts this would be the best flow TPI system you could get. Flows 300cfm out of the box and would match good with AFR 195's. We had a group sale going on for $875. You still might be able to get discount.

-AFR 180cc 64 cc l98 heads (looking at 9.8:1 compression from parts I've sourced)
I agree that 195's would be much better suited for you. 180's would work but more for a 350. Why would you not go for higher compression if you are buying parts and building engine? Aluminum heads can handle 11:1. Going from 10:1 to 11:1 will net you a theoretical 2.5% increase in power.
http://www.popularhotrodding.com/tec...ech/index.html

-1.6 full roller rockers (possibly narrow body if they'll clear the stock valve covers w/o mods)
just saw a thread on TPI page about this. Looks like stock covers will fit with a little modification to underside.

-comp xfi 280 cam
seems to work well on 383 TPI builds

-either 30 or 36 # injectors
based on this calculator you will need #36 which cover to 460hp
http://www.witchhunter.com/injectorcalc1.php4

-2500 or so locking TC
might want to call a few TC companies with build and drive line specs to see what they say.

-possible upgrade to 1-3/4 headers and i'm thinking 2-1/4 or 2-1/2 duals (already a dual cat car so why not right, I saw BMR even makes a panhard bar reloc. kit for duals now too)
1-3/4" headers would be good. Check out Dyno Dons or Hooker 2055. Longtubes aren't worth ground clearance hassle especially when above shorties work so well. I have dual 2-1/2" pipes on my car. It can work but is tough to hump them over rear axle and panhard. A properly sized single exhaust would work but you would have to find muffler to match flow. See if some local shops can do custom work. I was thinking about UMI relocation bracket too. It will alter your rear end geometry slightly since only passenger side of panhard bar is adjusted. They are supposed to be making bracket that properly lowers both sides of PHB. You might not notice any issues but just to be aware. Jegs makes a lowering bracket for drivers side that costs $75. Check out theses posts.
https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/susp...rear-lcas.html
https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/susp...-relo-bar.html

-also if someone would like to run a 1/4 E.T. simulator I plan on keeping the 3.23s and 700-r4 (probably a stronger version though)
You may want to consider aftermarket rear end too. Stock end won't take much abuse from 383 TPI. It's tough since unless you are real knowledgeable about rear ends you will need aftermarket rear that costs $2,400. Keep us updated.

 

stick with the TPI but never expect excellent power. i would go with a set of good flowing heads at the minimum like the AFR's.

36's are 2 big imo. i would go with 30's max! this motor wont be reving high, so no need to over fuel inject it!

https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/engi...tor-1040s.html

 

oh I meant the 195's I just was looking at the 180's to compare and mixed it up but I want to be able to run 87/89 octane through this engine to keep it somewhat useful as a DD. Is that possible with 11:1 with AL. Heads?. I was also under the impression that the TPIS bigmouth was an edelbrock casting that is just port matched and ported out then resold. I figured i'd cut out the middle man but if it's that big a difference might as well just go TPIS. Although the first is the best flowing it looks nothing like stock to me. I know the AFRs will stick out but with some black paint most people won't even look twice. and i included the 3.23s in the (probably a stronger version) comment. I know the stockers won't hold up to that abuse especially if I start hooking at the strip. as far as the stall that's what comp recommends for the 280xfi h13 cam also the jegs catalog says this panhard relocation kits is desigend to allow for true duals over the rear axle up to 3" without altering geometry so i was planning on getting one of those for the set up to make thinks easier and i'm betting it would make it a little stronger too.

 

hmmmmm... the BMR one I was looking at says that it doesn't affect suspension geometry but after reading those 2 posts I'm not sure I trust it. further reasearch will be needed now.

 

Have you ran calcs for static and dynamic compression ratios? DCR will tell you what octane you should run. Popular hot rodding link has good paragraph and chart on compression ration and octane towards bottom of page. Below is link to good CR calculator.Just keep DCR at or below 8.5. If you want to run lower octane gas, your CR will be lower. Not a problem just that if you are spending money to get good components (aluminum heads, hydraulic roller cam) why not get max power? I am not sure about TPIS bigmouth being repackaged edlebrock. I've just read that cost for extrued honing base could be pricey ($400). So bigmouth may be worth it but don't know if even that needs more porting.

http://www.popularhotrodding.com/tec...ech/index.html

http://www.empirenet.com/pkelley2/DynamicCR.html

 

i don't think the equations in that link are right. i ran the math several times and got a DCR of 9.7 compared to the scr of 9.8. Then i ran the numbers through this DCR calculator and got a 7.62 which is almost perfect for 87 octane and 180 tstat which is what I would like to be able to enjoy. I may be giving up 10-15 hp overall but who know's how much money i could save on road trips alone considering gas prices going nutzo lately. a jump to 11:1 would require at least 93 octane which is almost and extra $.50/gallon around here. i plan on throwing this engine in and being done with it moving through the rest of the car until i have a complete restofication and driving it for years to come. i would still love any hp and torque estimates with the above combo and found a decent E.T. calculator so i can do all that
also updated parts in original post.

 

I got static of 10.3:1 and dynamic of 8:1 using that calculator. I think power would be close to extrued honed and TPIS big mouth combo in article. That yielded 450 hp and 534 ftlbs at crank probably with no accessories. Figure yours around 430 hp and 500 ftlbs at crank. Drive train loss for auto would be around 18%.

 

I agree with the above post. 30# injectors will be just fine. You can install and adjustable fuel pressure regulator that will give you some wiggle room.

 

already have an afpr, 2 actually (car had one on it already and I didn't realize it until after I ordered a new one with my injectors, switched it anyways for the shiny and new effect) but I'm really puzzled as for the TPIS vs Edelbrock base. in the tpi intake shoot out the tpis set up makes 29hp and 33ft/lbs more than the edelbrock set up but everything i read says they're the same base just tpis port matches theirs. Is it possible that the 52mm TB, as&m runners and the ported plenum is what is making that difference? i wouldn't want to spend the extra money just to find out that i got almost the exact same base.

 

Its the same base, there isnt much more to say. Its been pretty well documented by multiple people ever since this site was around. Forget power differences from the base alone, they do not exist because the only possible difference is some port matching (for a time, they were not even doing that) and the TPIS logo cast into the intake.

 

also I was comparing the cam specs for the 280 xfihr13 and the xr288hr used in the intake comparison and the 280 looks like it would provide more lift with less duration and a wider lsa. I'm not too knowledgeable with cams but wouldn't that mean it could potentially make more power just at a lower rpm? if so that would definitely help with the tpi layout and actually be easier to tune. opinions please

 

My understanding is that the edlebrock tube runners are not much better than stock. That could be why the edlebrock package compares poorly to TPIS large tube runners. I agree on cam, 280 would be better suited for your combo. I'd say 288 if you had a high flowing/reving combo like a superram.

 

I have the 280xfi in a 350 with afr 190's, 10:1 compression, and its marginal with 87 octane. I dont remember offhand what the DCR came out to I will have to refigure it later. Put down 330 at the wheels so with 33 more CI and better runners (stock over here) it will do a bit better than that.

I would run at least 2800 stall on that setup. Anything less its going to feel a little sluggish on the low end. I have a 3k Vigilante behind the motor.

 

can you define marginal for me? not quite sure what you mean by that. i ran the numbers and assuming you use standard 4" bore 3.48 stroke with 5.7" rods your dynamic compression ratio is approximately 7.72, a tad higher than what I was looking at but should be beneficial to 87 octane. I was planning on having a dual chip (able to switch between 2 programs) set up on the car so i could tune one (possibly with premium) for race days and one (with 87 octane) for emissions and road trips. It sure would be nice to tell somebody i just kicked his *** on 87 though

P.S. I found this when i was looking to see what different calculators there were for compression ratio gives you both static and dynamic based on your input.
FREE STATIC AND DYNAMIC COMPRESSION RATIO CALCULATOR

 

There are days where on 87 octane there is some knocking going on at the right RPM and load. Only tried the 87 to see how it would do on that. I never spent any real time tuning with it to try and use 87 in the car.

DCR is 7.83 using pat kelley's calculator.

 

how hard would it be to port the edelbrock base? would I need some expensive tools or would a dremel and some various bits be enough to get the job done? I want it to be smoothish all the way through and not have any casting roughness left in the ports

 

A dremel can work, its just going to take a lot more time to remove the material.

I would not worry too much about surface finish, especially in the intake. I would worry more about the cross sectional area of the port and the transitions from runner to base and base to head. At the first bend behind the fuel injector is about the worst spot in the base. Then the entry angle of the runner to base.

 

i was looking at the base and wondered if there could be any benefit from rounding out the injector relief that you can see in this pic. i just don't see a square hole for a round peg being helpful to overall flow. also i ddid not do this. i would poop bricks if I did such a sloppy port match job.

 

I think your combination of rear gear (3.23) and cam (230-236 duration) combined with the stock-looking intake might be a mismatch?

For what you are doing with the motor, forget about splayed caps, they are not necessary and will be a big $$$ spent for nothing.

You can't go wrong with the AFR heads, though, the 195 intake port would work now and later if you decide to change intakes when you want more power later on (which you will).

I have passed emissions with a 230-236 114lsa cam and the LPE 219 cam. Both will peak about the same rpms with that intake. If you are truely set with running the stock intake then you need to optimize everything below 5000 rpms. My old 383 LPE219 superram combo peaked at 5500 rpm, so your stock runner 383 should peak a little lower. Take a look at the LPE219 cam, it works with alot of combos and is tame to tune, easy on the gas mileage and makes good power/torque.

I would run at least 2800 stall with the 3.23 gear. Are you set on running the 3.23 gear?

The stock-looking intake is a right of passage for most. You like the way it looks, but realize it has it's limitations. You CAN get it to make power, but it takes lots of porting, measuring, welding, etc and all of that time and money spent costs $$$. I ported my edelbrock base with a dremel and it just about killed the dremel. It still works, but barely. I spent a week trying to gasket match it and open up the runners and if I could do it again, I would switch intakes or have it professionally ported. If you have the time and money, then do it yourself, but it won't be or come easy. Might want to look at that aftermarket intake that already comes with the oversize runners (FIRST?) or try to find a used set of runners and base that has already been ported to save some cash.

You also don't need forged anything for 400hp peace of mind or not. The stock cast pistons will take 400 hp all day long. I would put some hyper or cheap forged pistons(TRW) with good rod bolts and a scat steel or other aftermarket crank and call it a day. You are wasting your money on a 4340 kit and splayed mains running the stock intake.

 

You also need to budget $1500 for a decent 700R4 trans and $750 for a good converter like a Yank or Vigilante. Once you start making power, you will break parts. Make your converter choice a wise one, it will pay off for you later. I recommend the Yank. Call them and get a recommendation based on the specs you tell him.

 

Trust me I know that the stock layout isn't going to provide me with the most power but I have one of only 592 91 B4Cs made and I don't want to rape it too much. I want to do what I have heard called a restofication where it looks stock from the outside and run's like a madman. Like I said I know the forged rotating assembly is overkill but I plan on passing this car to one of my sons when i die. worst case scenario we pull the internals and reuse them when the block dies, and I might hit it with some nitrous at some point. I also have another 91 RS that I plan on doing an LSX swap in and going the whole 9 yards so that's where my need for speed will pick up. I'm not completely set on the 3.23s but I wouldn't want to go much past 3.42 especially since it'll have loads of torque already with the long runners and 700r-4. Also is there any way the 10 bolt could hold up or is it a necessity to go with a 12. Does anyone even make an aftermarket 10 bolt? I know I plan on upgrading to a better LSD (maybe eaton but still looking around), moser 28 spline axles, and getting a TA differential cover with bearing supports. i have heard that will hold to around 450hp but would that hold the torque? I know the tpi will be a beast down low when paired with the 700 and want to make sure I have it all budgeted right so I don't blow anything once I get it tuned. Also I think the stall speed I posted first was a typo on comps website because I can't find where they had it but that was where I found it as suggested with the cam. Also the dual exhaust Idea is out after reading into the PHR reloc. kits. can't even find them on UMI's website any more. One more question. as far as porting the plenum goes would siamesing it and the beginning of the runners do any good or just be a wast of time?

anywho I have to see if I pass a physical to get into the navy before any of this really matters so plans can definitely change

 

after reading a book on cams and doing some further poking around I think I'd rather go with Comps computer controlled 276HR-14 as opposed to the original 280XFI HR13 . the 276 has a wider LSA with close lift and less overlap. I think this will help keep the low and mid-range strong and not really give anything up on the top end. it's 50 state legal too in case I get stationed near smog *****

 

I'm not aware of an aftermarket 10 bolt. You can build up 10 bolt to withstand around 400hp. To do so would cost you around $1,200. Small stock rear end size of 7.625" does not hold up well to excessive torque. Seeing as you will have a 383 TPI with deep first gear of 700R, an aftermarket rear end is highly suggested. Some people on here are running very strong combos on stock 10 bolt while others break them with little mods. You could get buy if you baby it and don't use slicks. Since our suspension is unique attachment point wise you have to spend $2,500 for a bolt in aftermarket that will take the beatings. Below are three options, that all pretty much cost the same. If you go aftermarket, don't get Ford 9 bolt since it takes more power to turn than these. Another issue is that only the Moser 12 bolt can use stock rear disc brakes with modifications to brackets. Other two need aftermarket ones.

Strange Dana 60
http://www.spohn.net/shop/1982-1992-...-Complete.html

Moser 12 bolt
http://www.spohn.net/shop/1982-1992-...-Complete.html

Strange 12 bolt
http://www.spohn.net/shop/1982-1992-...-Complete.html

Siamesing runner base may not help performance too much but wouldn't hurt either. Worth a try if you have some time. The more important thing is you have larger diameter runners than stock.

Good luck with the physical.

 

just got my cam suggestion from comp and they said to go with the 268xfi hr 13 it has the same power band as the 276 with shorter duration but more lift. with a 113 lsa. Can i get some opinions on which of the 3 cams you guys would suggest?

 

I am also building a 383 tpi and I just purchased a custom grind cam from comp cams. The specs on it are 224/230 @.050, .565"/.568", and 112LSA, roller cam. I think that is a good happy medium between the 268XFI and the 280XFI.

 

how much did that run you and do by chance have the lobe numbers?

 

If you want it to look stock, then everything else about your initial proposal is all wrong. Forget the XFI280 cam and the 195cc heads if you're sticking with the long-runner intake. All you would get is an ultra-narrow, ultra-peaky rpm band, and even with the T56 you'd wish for even closer gear ratio spacing.
Your powerband would start late because of the cam and heads, and it would die early because of the TPI.
What's wrong with the TPI 383 I just posted? It's a sticky in swap called Atilla's Best Builds, It's like the 6th or 7th post. It delivered nearly 450 hp and over 530 tq while looking stock.

 

the more I look into it the more I think i would be happier with the xfi268hr 13 and the afr 180s. does that sound like it could put out 420hp and 500lbs?

 

I forget the actual price but it didn't cost any more than a regular cam even though it was a custom grind. Just call them up and give them the specs and they will make it for you.

 

ok so i updated the parts list and would like some guesstimates on what it could do as far as power numbers. I'm hoping the extrude honed siamesed base and plenum will flow better than the bigmouth set up and the singe 3-1/2 will provide enough flow. I was thinking a single pattern 224 would be a good idea considering the AFRs E/I but i noticed that the intake valve actually offers more lift at less duration so I think that would balance it out