lkefthrlkeson

Hey guys, trying to plan out my engine build. Just wondering what good budget aluminum heads were out there? I know there's the zz4 head, but are there any other options? Just wanting something fun to drive that's also reliable, and idles just like a stocker. I know, I'm for sure gonna have a first tpi setup. Just not sure what heads and cam to go with it. thanks for the help

Wadebryant

Before you get bombarded with opions.. might help yourself if you define your idea of a "budget" aluminum head.

lkefthrlkeson

Well, I was thinking 1200 or below. And 1200 may be pushing it. I know afr heads are around 1400 or so. Don't really want to spend that much. Just a decent flowing head that will work well with the first tpi setup and whatever cam I decide to use.

KiLLJ0Y

iTrader: (1)

well if you are talking cheapest... the corvette aluminum heads are probably the cheapest...

if we are talking aftermarket... world, or E-Tech or trickflow

Blackdog36

iTrader: (3)

What size engine are you building and what power levels / driving style?

I have FIRST unit and looking to go 383 with AFR 195's. If I was sticking with 350, would go AFR 180's. You probably can get them a little cheaper if you dig around.

As mentioned, still other good aftermarket units (Trick flow, Brodix, Canfield. etc). You can now get FIRST unit with vortec bolt pattern so opens up some more options. I believe all aluminum corvette heads are same as heads for 350 F-bodies, just not cast iron. Those heads flow around 200 cfm maximum. Most aftermarket heads flow greater for not a lot more money. Flow is not everything though (port velocity, intake/exhaust efficiency, flow on exhaust side). Make sure to check these out too and don't focus just on max flow numbers. Not sure if you have researched it but TPI based engines need to be thought out carefully. Cam peak power and where heads perform best need to match up with intake "tuned" rpm band.

From what I've read on here, most aggressive cam for TPI that is still easily tunable and maintains good vacuum is something similar to Comp Cam XFI 268 for a 350 and XFI 280 for 383.

lkefthrlkeson

This is actually my second 3rd gen. Had a 92 b4c that got wrecked by ex-wife. This car is gonna be driven alot. The engine I'm leaning towards is a 355 with 9:1 compression. I've seen people mention the trick flow heads, but I haven't seen any numbers on them as far as performance. I know how important it is for the heads and cam to match, so I was hoping find the right heads and then the right cam to go with it. I want car that runs good, is reliable, and can give you a smile from ear to ear when you decide to put your foot into it. Hope this helps

TG Goose

i'm running Edelbrock E-Street heads, love them on my budget build.

dspencer24

iTrader: (3)

im not sure you of ur budget but i just got my afr 180s at my door step yesterday and they are amazing just looks alone they are fantastic. I paid i believe 1350 give or take a few bucks and that was brand new shipped to my door.

lkefthrlkeson

I actually looked at these. They're really nice heads. Just wasn't for sure if they are worth the money, I tend to be a bit of a tightwad when it comes to spending money. If you don't mind me asking, what's the rest of your setup as far as cam, intake, etc... kind of interested in seeing what else you've got with those. thanks

dspencer24

iTrader: (3)

I m actually building my engine and doing a 305 to 350 right now. I have the following :
52 mm throttle body
Siamesed plenum
ported and siamesed 2" accel runners
ported accel manifold
afr 180s
xfi268 cam
24lb injectors
and its going on a pretty much stock rebuild with forged pistons

from what i have been reading this is almost guaranteed 300 rwhp

norcalz28

iTrader: (13)

World Products makes some decent heads, what makes other heads more expensive are the extra steps that say AFR takes to cnc their intake and exhaust ports. You won't find this on cheaper heads, that's why the ports on a set of 113 alum heads are so damn rough. It all comes down to what you hope to get out of it in the end.

Mr. Notorious

iTrader: (1)

I went with the Edelbrocks too for my budget build. Not the highest performing heads, but they'll doing what I'm asking for out of the motor. But I really picked them out because a friend used to get a killer discount though Keystone Automotive and Edelbrock was one of the only head manufacturers on the list

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

heads are the most important part of a motor. Spending money there is wise.

But for under 1200, i'd look at the brodix IK200's for a 383 with First intake. Have heard ok things on Profiler heads. Were developed from Darin Morgan, head of Reher-Morrision cylinder head R&D so he knows his stuff. Their big block heads are good stuff and the small block stuff seems to be promising. Real good flow numbers at a very cheap price. 1000 bucks for a pair. Not sure of the components used.

lkefthrlkeson

Heys guys, thanks for all the help so far. Just wanted to run this by you guys. I was looking at summit racing and found a set of edelbrock e-tec 170cc heads for $445 a piece. Are these good heads? I'm looking for at least 300rwhp so would these be a good choice? What are pro's and con's of these?

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

If you are only looking for 300-330 whp, a set of cleaned up 113 L98 castings will work fine.

I need to edit my above post. You have a 355 so you dont need 200 cc heads. 180's will be ok, so brodix IK180s are available for decent price.

BUT there are quite a few guys with L98 vette aluminum heads and 300-330whp with TPI and a cam like LT4 hotcam or XFI268 or similar.

Etecs i think are overpriced for the performance you get. They are a vortec type head i believe so you'd need a vortec TPI intake and I am not a fan of those setups. Just dont flow as well as a regular base but fully ported you can get some numbers out of them. It be cheaper and easier i think to run iron vortecs to make similar power.

You can get used L98 heads for 300 bucks and just need to freshen them up with new seals and springs. valve job wouldnt be a bad idea if you wouldnt mind spending the cash for it. ZZ4 heads are the same thing but machined to fit higher lift cams. They are overpriced when buying new however so I wouldnt look at them.

norcalz28

iTrader: (13)

170's are a little on the smaller side for a healthy 350. Might make gobs of torque, but prolly won't get you anymore top end than you already have

Mr. Notorious

iTrader: (1)

The E-Tecs require the Vortec TPI base, which is what like another $400? I thought about it for a minute but I don't think the performance gains would have outweighed the extra cost...

I just went with the Performer RPM head, they will likely be sucking for wind above 5000rpm, but so will the stock TPI intake setup. I think it was a decent match for a torque monster...

lkefthrlkeson

So the e-tecs are out. Don't want to have to mess with have to change to a vortec style setup. I guess I was misinformed about how hard it would be to get to 300rwhp. Guess I should change my goal to 325-350rwhp. I know they may be out of my price range, but I've been looking at the afr180cc heads. I've heard they'd work really well on a daily driven car. As far as a cam goes, heard a lot about the lt4 hotcam. Just wondering if this would be too much cam for a daily driven car. And what would be a good cam for the afr180 heads? I really do appreciate everyones advice.

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

I'd go with a more modern version of the hotcam, like the xfi268. Proven cam with TPI and HSR setups with AFR 180-195 heads. Drives very very well. Easily a DD cam and wouldnt be all that hard to tune either. I think a FIRST TPI, that cam and AFR 180s will do 340-350whp well tuned with shaved head for higher compression. Go for 10-10.5 or so. It should be very strong. I dont think it will make any lower than 320whp since lesser combos have dyno'd that on these boards.

lkefthrlkeson

Have to admit, I think you may have me sold on the afr180's and the cam. The only thing I worry about is that I may decide to make this my commuter car (60 miles round trip everyday). Will I still be able to use pump gas without any problems and will the car still get good gas mileage(20+mpg). I know I'm wanting everything in one little package, but just curious if that compression ratio would cause any problems. thanks

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

factory vette cars are 9.8 to 1 I believe, and run on every kind of gas but run best on 93 with their aggressive spark tables.

10-10.5 should run fine on pump gas, atleast the premium 92-93 octane stuff. AFR's are 65cc chambers while L98 vette heads are 58cc. So a AFR head on stock bottom end would give abit lower compression.

If you go with a typical -5 cc valve relief flat top piston with a .040" piston to head deck clearance, 65cc AFR heads will give 10.2 to 1. If you ran 58cc vette heads, go with a -12cc dish piston to get same 10.2 to 1.

Thats all you really want to do on pump gas with a milder cam like that. I ran 11 to 1 with my 383 but had a much bigger cam which helps lower dynamic compression which helps on pump gas. Typical dynamic compressions of 8-8.5 to 1 or so is where you want to run 93 octane gas.

IF MAF setup, i'd run something like the 6E ARAP vette bin as a base, and just change the spark table abit to be abit less aggressive while starting out. 34 deg at WOT is all it should need.

If speed density then may need to just pick one and start. Super AUJP i think is a good bin with good control features.

lkefthrlkeson

I know you said it would be fine with 93 octane, but around here, the highest you're gonna find is 91 octane. Haven't seen any station with anything higher. That's why I was wanting to keep it around 9:1. Thought it might make it easier on the engine. How much performance would the lower compression cost me? Again, thanks for the help

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

It would still probably run on 91 just fine. You wont see much of a difference between the 2.

I first ran my 383 with a mix tank of 93 and 89 making I guess 91 and it ran fine.. even was super lean at first WOT runs and never detonated,never knocked, etc. I just chose 93 since its the same price around here.

theimpaler68

iTrader: (1)

Orr89RocZ you are the man! i am wanting to build a 357 with the first intake and xfi268 and have been trying to figure out which heads to get and was on the fence not being able to choose. i have been looking at the afr's but not knowing whether to get the 180's or 195's. looking for around 350rwhp or better. you always seem to pop up when i search and answer just the right way. just getting my ideas straightened out before i can start getting the money together. always better to know how much before you start. i have great access to 93 it is everywhere in FL. any additional thoughts about the first with xfi268? if i don't do 357 and keep it a 350 any thoughts on the bottom end... freshen up anyway?

mrtater99

iTrader: (1)

Hi, don't mean to hijack your thread but while you guys are on the subject, I'm building a 350 using a tpi with a gutted base, with the LT4 hotcam and 113 heads. This has been a real slow build for me, time and money. Time being the big factor. Anyway, I'm using 1.6 full roller rockers and need to know what would be the best length pushrods to use. Thanks in advance

subroc

iTrader: (2)

You should have really started your own thread for that type of question but ill bite anyways. You need to invest in a pushrod lenth gauge (basically an adjustable pushrod. You install that along with one rocker and you change the lenth depending on how the rocker is sitting on the tip of the valve. Ideally you want the rocker to not move to much over the tip of the valve as this is wasted energy. You want the rocker to be pushing the valve down more than rolling across the valve. It will move some but shouldnt be excessive. There are many things online dealing with how to figure out pushrod lenth so i suggest you do a bit of hunting as well as investing in an pushrod lenth gauge.

Also back to the topic at hand....what no love for the Darts? I have set of pro 1's (non-platinums) that are set to go on my 10.5:1 compression 355. Should be a fun motor when done. You can get them cheap if you keep your eyes open as well. New they are 1200 dollar heads. I found these new in the box from someone who bought them a few years ago and never used them. I got them for 900 fully assembled. I doubt i could have done better if i tried.

1989GTATransAm

iTrader: (3)

The motor I'm replacing has the Dart 200cc heads old style which have had some cleanup work done to the ports. They were flowed around 275cfm and performed quite well on my 355sbc.

By the way for those scared of a 195cc or 200cc head on a 350 size motor let me tell you the intake runners were clean as a whistle. I ran my finger over the wall of the plenum an runner and there was nothing. It was just like the day I put it on. So I was not getting any reversion.

This intake system is going on my new 6.0L sbc motor with AFR 195 heads which were flowed at 306cfm and. This motor made 535 horsepower on the engine dyno.

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

As 1989GTATransAm says above, 195's are not too big for a 350 so if you want to go with them I'd go with them just to have enough head. They flow well and will match the FIRST intake well but the 195's will support high rpms on engines above 350 inches so with TPI's 0-5500 rpm range, you dont really need a large cross sectional area runner in a head. 180's should work fine.

I think that setup will be worth close to 350whp depending on the dyno/trans/etc. 330-350 is definately expected. Shorter runner intakes like stealth ram and miniram would work best to get more power in the higher rpms above 4800 where that cam will want to run. Allens old setup made 350-360whp with 268 cam and highly ported TPI. The cam is capable of making good numbers.

Stock bottom ends with TPI should handle it fine. Freshen up is good idea but doesnt need special internals as you wont be turning over 5500 with TPI stuff unless its ported siamesed type stuff