Alright well update, my new MSD coil came today installed it and the cars doing exactly what it did with the old one. It will start on the first try but turns off a second later. What other things can make a car have low and weak spark?

 

Have you tested the ignition module? Is the coil getting a spark signal out of the coil wire? Did you clean the IAC? Have you tested the MAP sensor?
Theres something else I want you to try (sorry for having to keep you trying **** but without being there this is difficult to diag)... There are grounds that go to the block. One should be on the back of the head, there are probably others. These grounds can corrode and cause issues, try to locate them and see if they are tight and not too corroded. You will be looking for a simple wire that bolts on to the block, and on the back of the cylinder heads. Its real simple.

 

If you could tell me where the ignition module is i will go test it. Im going to go out and check for the ground wire and if there is spark. What i was concerned is if the spark isnt blue does that mean there is a problem? When i tested the spark plugs towards the front of the car the spark was a yellow orange weak spark and towards the back there was a yellow orange spark but it was a little more strong of a spark. Is it okay to clean the IAC with wd-40? i ran out of carb cleaner, and questions first how do i test the MAP sendor and does the MAP sensor replace the earlier MAF sensor?

 

WD 40 is fine... lets do one at a time, I will be up for a while...

 

Alright im going to clean that real fast. Whats next on the list?

 

Engine Ground.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B8EVhFc5Yqw
MAP sensor IS probably your problem.

 

Crap i dont have a vacuum gauge. Ill buy one. But the ground wire at the back looked ok not really rusty, the wire looked like a braded medal line right? And just so i can be correct with the IAC sensor https://pontiworld.com.au/usgmsp/ima...valve8588..jpg when you mean clean are you talking about removing the whole thing or the electrical part i clean like the connector and the outlet?

 

Can that MAP sensor stop the car from staying on when turning the ignition?

 

Remove the whole thing, be careful there is a gasket on there you want to keep. Clean it out, sometimes they stick from being dirty and the car will run rough or not run at all..... Check the MAP sensor, thats gotta be it!

 

my friend has a vacuum gauge, ill ask him to come over tomorrow and test is. Damn the gasket just like disintegrated when i took it off, now what? can i ise like teflon tape or something?

 

Get another one... its like 80 cents. lol You can pick it up when you pick up your new MAP sensor, because its the only damn thing left to test its gotta be it.

 

Can a MAP sensor shut the car off? and can it shut the car off when turning the ignition and having the car start for a second?

 

My buddy should come this week with that vacuum gauge, i dont want to buy a new MAP sensor if mine is good. I found a perfect example of how my car sounded and reved http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FgJst...eature=related

 

MSD Coils aren't usually good, they usually require you to put everything msd to work right. It could be the cam that wasn't good. Internal damage could be,compression leak, weak spark is usually dist,pick up coil,or something in the distributor.

 

It hooked right up and did the same thing the other coil did, so i guess it cant be that bad. The car still wont stay on, it will start for a second then die. I can keep turning it and it will just stay on for another second and die. You heard that camaro, it sounded exactly like it. Do you have any ideas? One of my good friends said it sounds like my timing is still off so it wont stay on.

 

MAP sensor or Ignition Module... those are both fairly common problems with these cars and you have checked neither.

 

yes,i heard that Camaro. I had my father listen in as well. He said there could be a loss in pressure.The tricky part is,it could be MAF,MAP, or some vacuum hose that is rotted. Also,what i think is it might be a pcv valve or the grommet connecting it. Check those and get back to us. Man, the guy that sold you this car, basically sold you a restoration job.

 

Where is that ignition coil located? Im going to take it to auto parts store to get it tested. Also is there any specific vacuum lines that i need to look at carefully? I know mostly all the vacuum lines are pretty old.

 

Your car might be diff than mine, from 87 on it's a little bit different, espcially if you have a 350 ci motor. I would check the pcv valve, MAP,MAF sensors,before going crazy with the vacuum hoses. If you were to check the hoses, try the heater hose, pre-heater hose first,then work your way down to the others. But first see if those sensors or the valve is damaged. You can tell if the pcv valve is damaged by turning it on, and disconnecting it and seeing if there's a suction on your finger. Also.check the connections to the grommet if there's air leaking you'll feel it and hear it.

 

From what I read you already replaced that. The ignition module is under the distributor cap and they go bad often. It seems like your map sensor is bad, replace that and the ignition module and you should be good to go.

 

Do you think thats why my car wont stay on?

 

Try unplugging the map sensor and starting the car. It's the sensor with a green three prong plug on the plenum by the distributor. If the car acts the same way with it unplugged go buy a new map.

 

If the ignition module was bad the car probably wouldn't start at all but it's still worth testing.
It might be worth testing the map sensor as well. Autozone should be able to do that for you if you can't do it yourself.

 

Alright when i get home i will unplug the MAP sensor and let you guys know what happens. Do you think advance auto or pep boys can test the MAP or ignition module?

 

Called pep boys, autozone, advance auto and all of them dont test MAP or the ignition modules

 

Unplugged the sensor and try to start the car, if it acts the same buy a new one. Finding somewhere to test it is more of a headache than it's worth.

 

The one question i have to that is my car wont start, it doesnt matter if the car wont start to still test it?

 

You need the voltometer and vacuum gauge to test the psi and current going thru the map sensor. You also need to start it up once to get the juices flowing then turn it off and dc and measure it.

 

Yea i dont have a vacuum gauge, only a voltsmeter. I was hoping that at least one auto parts store can thest this stuff

 

If and when you do the sensors(MAP,MAF) and it's still running like that, then you have a hose problem. That will be harder to diagnose than the sensors. Hopefully it wont be that problem though

 

You mean when i test it and the car still doesnt start or better words "stay running"?

 

Yes,for choice of better words. The car should be starting though. I would reconnect whatever you dced. Cause you need to start the car at least once before you test the MAP or MAF sensor

 

Either you have too much free time or you are milking TGO for every brain cell with info....???? No point in worrying about anything else until you test those (MAP and Ign. module). Seriously, no reason, none...zip. Those sensors can cause the issues you have and if I were you, I would buy one or test the old one... quick. You have the means to do so....
It should have three wires... A positive a ground and a reference... the reference signal is what you probe while cranking...see if it changes. Ignition module is about the same, just prongs and not so much wiring.

Maybe someone can chime in and tell you what color the wires are.... just be smart...most grounds have a stripe on them no matter the color...also purple is a common color for ground... solid purple... Anyway, reference will be the wire that has fluctuating readings... Same for the module...all tho I am sure there is a how to on this forum on both somewhere.

 

Qs for the gurus--
In the Haynes manual, they show how to test the ignition module & pick-up coil for a coil-in-cap dist. Is the procedure the same for the remote coil style??

If the pick-up coil & MAP test good, I believe it's safe to say the timing is still too far off to keep it running.
Also, what position on the key do you turn to to listen for the fuel pump to kick on?? Our pump is aftermarket & switched, so IDK what position to turn the key to.

How do you guys feel about spraying carb cleaner or starting fluid into it?? I **personaly** don't like the starting fluid.

A gearhead @ work said the MAP test in the video is the same, just to pay attention to the wire colors. TRUE??

Thanks for all your help!!

 

Procedure should be the same, my personal feeling is there is nothiong wrong with either
the OP says the car will start and then stalls, if the ign mod was bad the car probably wouldn't start at all. I'm leaning towards a bad map like stated above.

The fuel pump should prime for 2 seconds when the key is turned to the run position.
starting fluid is ok just don't overdo it, you don't need alot. if the car will start and run with starting fluid then it is a fuel delivery problem.

 

Hey everyone sorry for taking so long, i had some problems i needed to take care of. I just got the new map sensor and still no start. It cranks and sounds like it wants to start but then keeps cranking. When i was doing the top dead center thing i was off 180 degrees so i switched the spark plugs 180 degrees until they were on the right spot. What do you think i should look into next to get it started?

 

You have wired the car backwards

 

When i did the firing order i was trying to get top dead center but my neighbor that loves cars said he thinks it would be 2 completey rotations to get to top dead center, that 1 didnt seem enough. Well we did 2 and it was 180 degrees off which my cylinder 1 was facing the passanger door. All we did was we had the right firing order but started with cylinder 1 from the passanger door and worked are way around with the order, it should all be right. Since you are a newer person to this thread ill explain in a short story what happened. Lets say 1 month and a half ago my car would start right away no problems well i had this very rough idle and the car felt like it wasnt running on all 8 cylinders, making this noise http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FgJst...eature=related except when the RPMs get higher the car sounds fine. Only in gear which being reverse and drive you hear the RPMs drop and the car is like hesatiting to stay on, sometimes even dies when im reversing out the driveway. In park you hear it shift out of the nasty sounding idle and it goes to normal again. The car originally had a stalling problem where it would die after 5 min of driving which was to be injectorS flooding the engine, but when my car had that stalling problem it never idled or drove like it does now. Ive replaced the EGR, spark plugs, spark plug wires, map sensor, alternator, and coil. So far nothing has changed, but of course as of now my car wont start due to when my friend was trying to be a genius and solve the problem he thought that my firing order was wrong so he changed it and when he went to start it ive NEVER heard that loud of a boom 3 times in my life. Neighbors came out and everything, ever since that my car hasnt started and im trying everything, it does sound like it wants to start but i maybe screwed up and when i tried getting top dead center only went half way up. Im not sure but the progress ive accomplished is alot especally what ive learned, most people on here would tell me to do something and it would be another language. After getting explained and looking at you tube videos ive learned a lot and for the people so far that has helped me i really want to thank you! and hopefully we can get this car running the way it was 19 years ago.

 

First, why didnt you test the MAP before buying? I gave you a youtube link that shows everything and you have a book right?
Second, we are all going to say ignition module next, but please, test it first. I have a feeling your not getting fuel...test port check fuel pressure... when you turn the key on in the car, do you hear the fuel pump humming?

 

Well i had a choice of either buying the 35 dollar map sensor or vacuum gauge so i just went with the new map sensor. How can i test the ignition moudule? Ive called all the auto parts stores in my area and no one tests them only alternators. When ive tried starting the car i did smell gas but ill check to hear if the fuel pump is on. Ill update the thread tonight from what ive done

 

Alright I just got done working on it and no luck again. When i turned the car on the ON position i didnt hear the fuel pump but the fan was kind of loud so where whould i put my ear to where i sure can tell if its making any kind of noise? I was talking to a tech guy from jegs and what he told me about TDC was if i pull the drivers side valve cover and see if both the rockers for cylinder 1 are loose then im at TDC. So i put the harmonic balancer on 0 and pulled the valve cover, they both were loose for cylinder one so i put everything back on and where the rotor was pointing i started with the firing order there and when i went to start it no luck. Now instead of the car making the sound like it wants to start it just turned and turned and then made popping noises so im guessing the firing order is still out. But i will ask my neighbor that helped me get my car to the point where it almost start help me this weekend. Do you think its my firing order? because i dont see what i am doing wrong

 

What you should do is bring it to the gas station and let them use the handheld to find what the problem is. There's no shame in bringing it there. And here's a vid to help you cope lol. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ly_67...1&feature=fvwp

 

Lol what do you mean by that?

 

Run for the hills? NAh.... RUN FROM THE POPO!!!!! Damn it. He got cornered.. Thats a very rare rear glass wiper on that 85 looking Camaro. Gotta love it.

 

Okay. Well the list is pretty ong (messages from others) so Im just gonna thow out some of my suggestions. Are there anytrouble codes? Have you checked the timing? When was the last time the timing chain was replaced? What is the resistance on the fuel injectors. Are the spark plugs gapped correctly? Have you tried replacing the whole ignition system (plugs, plug wires, rotor, cap, coil, ESC module, Ignition Control Module, pick-up coil)? have you tried shooting a little bit of starting fluid to get her up? If there are no troublecodes, then there may be a slight chance that the fuel injectors may be going bad. The ECM is not that advanced to pick up an error within the fuel injectors.

 

Also, it sounds like your car is stalling when placed under load as in it turns off when put into drive. That may be caused by a fault in the fuel system. You may want to check the fuel pressure in the fuel system. I think you can "Rent a Tool" at AutoZone. Get a fuel pressure gauge, install and turn the key to on. Write down the pressure. Then turn on the car. Once the car is on, write down that pressure. Then let us know what you find.

 

Parts ive replaced are spark plugs, spark plug wires, egr valve, map sensor, coil, alternator, distributor, and when i had the stalling problem with my car i found 3 injectors were bad so i replaced those, but i found another thats bad. Right now that ive tried doing the top dead center ive got it to turn but thats all not wanting to start or even make an attempt. Also its like making popping noise when i try to start it. Do you think my firing order is wrong or i can be 180 degrees off? How many times around the hermonic balancer will it be a TDC 1 time or 2?

 

Before i can do any kind of testing with the car running i need to get it to start lol, ive been trying to get it to start for about 2 months but i still am having no luck.

 

could be , that u have the distributer 180 out ????
just saying, would not be the first time..mhhhhh