ok thanks to anyone that has help with info so far i have a 355 forged 9 5 to 1 pistons rods and crank 87 up vett heads ported and slp runners and base would sould i run for cam and to InjectorsPlus cuse u tryed to take over my post let me ask u some thing with not saving up any money and with what u have now and in ur pockit ur saying that vett motor that guy did is just good let me see u make a motor that can run day to day on bump gas 91 and have god mpg and not over heat and have all the stuped isses that happens with cazy motors thats why turbos and tuning has gotin so big u can have 10-20 psi and have say 600 rwh on tap to play all weekend the turn it down and runn all week to work or were ever may in ur case the bar to drink your self stuped cuse u just got burned bye a 19 year old good day sir

 

Hopfulee u wuz ate tee barr dinken stuped wen u tipe thiss repie!

 

That example we are discussing isn't for "us poor people". What do you think that oiling system, rocker setup, and electric pump cost? You think that's a budget build? Really? And it isn't even a TPI. Additionally, there are more parts going into this you probably can't even see. Fittings, headers, the valve covers, etc... You really think this example constitutes a BUDGET TPI BUILD? Really?

I don't think this example of an engine uses factory bottom end either. So once again, has no bearing on a TPI budget built. It's none of those things.

So actually, the example linked earlier has absolutely nothing to do with this thread, so I completely miss the point of why it was posted. But Orr and I know why, right Orr? (as per PMs) We get it.

So it really does not fit your description of a street car either. Again, missing the point of the example.

As to driving across country with the ac on running 11.0s, that's one definition, but I think the definition of a "street car" is subjective to the person driving it. Which is why I hate the term.

Emissions vary from state to state, some don't. We have to be as broad as possible as to what constitutes a "street" car, and IMO, anything you can pull up to the pump and feed with gas, and can be LEGALLY registered in at least one state of the country, it is...a street car.

 

if you can put that into english, I'd be glad to respond.

I didn't try to take over your post.

As to the "guy who did my motor" go look up Pat Musi. Almost 4 decades of top winning motors. One of the top 3 engine builders in the world.

Now, based on your post, I think I know who drank himself stupid.

I think the guy did a nice job on the engine, I just don't think it had anything to do with the thread. And I don't think 1.5HP/CI is all that "impressive" any good and experienced engine builder can do it. This guy is clearly good and experienced.

 

HA! I tried...

 

For the OP since this has gotten WAY off topic...

Without forced induction, nitrous or a VERY highly modified TPI system(such as the FIRST) with extensive work done to it, you will not hit 500rwhp.

IMHO, you should rebuild the bottom end, stock crank, nice rods and pistons, AFR heads, nice roller cam, modified TPI(SLP runners, port-matched gaskets, etc) or a Superram, nice torque converter, and 150 shot and run LOW 11's or so. My best was an 11.0 with the transmission not shifting quite right...

 

Told you Orr...just like I said.

 

Dude, buy a dictionary and learn how to use punctuation....

 

I don't think the "highly modified" TPI will yield 500RWHP...we're talking over 600 FWHP. Never gonna be any ways near "streetable". To the OP...save up your beans and just put a blower on it. I'm at 625+ RWHP, idles fairly smooth at 700 rpm and has NO bad manners. More power than most anyone needs on the street.

 

What's just like you said?

 

What's your full setup?

 

A friend of mine puts down right at 500 rwhp with a stock TPI intake. It's sitting on a forged 383 bottom end, low end aftermarket iron heads and over 20 psi from a single turbo. So yes, it can be done with a stock intake, boost and the right combination of parts & tuning. Car ran mid/upper 6 second 1/8 mile btw.

However I think the OP is gonna have a tough time getting all of that to happen, given his communication performance thus far!

 

Orr and I have a separate PM conversation going regarding this thread, and some history.

He's coming around..

 

That's it right there. Nice work! Spend the money on the bottom end, makes sense to me.

 

(I know, it's not an F-body....so sue me)

383, G.M. 4 bolt block with ARP main studs
8.3:1 J/E blower pistons
Edelbrock Vic. Jr. heads
Eagle 4340 H-beam rods w. L-19 (ARP) bolts
Scat 4340 crank
FAST efi (XFI) (Edelbrock Vic. Jr. Intake)
CompCams solid roller: 244/248/114* .617 intake lift, .609 ex. lift
Endure-x lifters and CompCams Pro magnum s/s roller rockers
ProCharger D1SC supercharger at 18-20 lbs. boost
Aeromotive A-1000 fuel pump
Richmond 5-speed trans. w/ Centerforce II clutch
BFG drag radials, 325-50-15
3.08 Corvette 10-bolt erear end (IRS)

 

It's OK. All combo's are nice to hear(read) to compare.

What numbers are you making?


edit for you adding the intake, haha

 

You caught me...It's making 625 RWHP/595RWTQ with some slippage on the rollers above 5,800 rpms.

 

Tell him to open up the intake and heads and see that 20 psi make 700whp Pretty good numbers for stock TPI tho. I'm happy I went with a boosted setup, although not TPI, i have no doubt that a big FIRST intake would likely work as good on my setup as the single plane victor EFI. My cam/heads setup is small for the motor so it doesnt have a big rpm range. Diesel like truck motor but it runs 9's

 

That probably is the most reasonable option if a guy truly wants to build to a number.

Your car sounds so tame that is awesome.

 

Anything is possible with the right $$$ and intuition. Good luck with your project, I hope it works out, it sounds like a fun challenge. At some point you have to submit, "is it worth it?" But I guess that depends on your motives for doing it. Yours are much different then the OP's I'm guessing.

 

I wasn't talking about the example. I was generally speaking. A lot of guys on the board has bought a bunch of high dollar parts and still can't make over 350whp. This is suppose to be an education course to everyone who wants to build a reliable street car. They should be looking at who build the best combo with certain parts instead of trying to reinvent the wheel. You can make 500fwhp with a stock L98 short block and have the right parts on top. Forged short block is good if you're going to use power adders. This is just my opinion.

 

Thank you Vince. Thank you.....thank you......thank you......

This has been my problem all along with forum advice. I agree with you COMPLETELY!

That is why sometimes I see stuff written, I shake my head. In another thread, a guy says "I have $3000 budget and want 350-400 HP.

The advice....GO BUY AFR HEADS.... WTF? REALLY? I've seen that in other threads too. First thing you do, buy AFR heads. WTF? For the record, that is not good advice. In fact, I'd be most suspicious of people who have the same solution to every problem....but I digress.

You have to understand how forums work. Much of what you see as "advice" is really just validation and peer acceptance. People want to feel good about themselves and be loved by others.

Now, this does NOT mean their intent isn't well placed. They are simply ignorant and in need of acceptance.

You said something about not being all technical before. Well, you have to have some basic technical understanding to seperate the bullshit from the truth. When I wanted to learn about fuel injectors, years ago, I called the engineer who designed and developed fuel injectors for Lucas. I spent hours on the phone with him. That was years ago. I didn't ask people on a forum. Forums augment knowledge, they don't create it.

If you do not take the time to get a basic and fundimental understanding of what you are buying and why you are buying it, you're going to wind up with EXACTLY what you describe. A pile of shiny parts that run like ****, and the guy who built a junkyard engine is blowing your doors off.

All the reasons I **** people off Vince, is because of guys like you. I hate seeing guys like you spend money unnecessarily and not get the results you want because someone has an ego problem or is capitulating to mob rule.

I have taken the time to learn and understand some stuff. I'm no expert, but there are some things I know and if something contradicts my knowledge, I will ask WHY. And either I will change my position, or I will argue to the death. Usually the latter.

You have to be careful on a forum. Hell if I came from outer space and read here, for the most part, I would think Comp is the only cam manufacturer, AFR is the only head available, and the only variance is picking a Miniram, Super Ram, HSR, or FIRST. How is this good information? ( I exaggerate for the sake of making a point)



I agree completely. And the issue is people's ability to exercise critical thinking. This thread is a good example. That engine posted has nothing to do with the OP's point. So why post it. I'll tell you why, everyone wanted to circle jerk about fancy parts. WTF did YOU, as a willing student, learn from seeing that engine spec? Pretty much nothing.

The issue is with Forum Dynamics if you DARE question something like that, be a critical thinker, you will be banned . That's why I banter with Orr. He's a good guy, who has an open mind, and doesn't mind testing forum folklure to get to the truth. Just sometimes he's a little thick is all.


Right, and in this case rather than someone popping up and say "BUY AFR HEADS"..which is a perfect example of everything that is WRONG with a forum. That is not the cure all solution.

The guy who said, keep the stock heads, intake, forge the bottom end, and boost it actually had it right. THAT MET THE GOALS OF THE OP but wasn't as cool. You'd be making 500HP but wouldn't be part of an elite AFR club. See how that works?

My last point about learning and information is also seen in this here thread. This engine posted is not a "Basic Street Engine" no matter what they try to tell you. It has a rev kit, it has oil system, and a bunch of other expensive stuff. And for the class of engine it is, is making average HP. I have seen more forum circle jerks over average results then I care to count, and THAT is how you wind up with, as you put it, fancy expensive parts, and **** poor results (I'm paraphrasing).

Now, if you're interested I Have a disk with 10,000 dyno pulls and their configurations. We can publish that, and then we wouldn't need a forum right? Wrong, that is not education.

If you want to learn, go look at what experts are doing. Call them, talk to them. Mimic their techniques and extract their knowledge. Guys like Curtis Boggs for example, one of the best head porters in the nation, and a class guy, posts on forums, USE HIM. but understand the difference between a professional and a hack.

Last point, just because 1000 people say it, does not make it true. Challenge every urban legend. The first thing that comes to mind is the difference between 1 3/4 vs 1 7/8 headers. Here's a shocker for you. NO DIFFERENCE. Back pressure....blah blah blah. Tell ya what. I have been at dyno tests where one set was taken off, the other was put on, right there at the shop and right on the dyno. Same dyno, same day. Results, no difference. Bull**** like exhaust flow matters in a head... CHALLENGE THIS AND FIND THE TRUTH. Because this is way you get around buying shiny peer accepted expensive parts, that don't work well together.

I can rant endlessly, and probably put you all to sleep. So I'll stop here.

 

Horsepower revolves around the head. Good advice is to buy the best head you can afford. AFR makes a good head and is a known quantity. It is a safe purchase for most buyers wanting to make good power. A person could do a lot worse.

 

Well, this validates my position.

Vincent, I rest my case. Wanna know how you wind up with a load of expensive junk that doesn't go anywhere, look no further than this post.

Orr, I told ya. I rest my case with you too.

A classic case of ignorance to gain acceptance. Case closed.

 

"Bull**** like exhaust flow matters in a head"

Now that is pure ignorance. It matters in the selection of the camshaft. The better the exhaust flow in the head the less crutch is needed as in duration. The less duration on the exhaust lobe the less overlap you will have and so on.

"A classic case of ignorance to gain acceptance. Case closed."

You have no case and I do not need any acceptance.

 

Vincent, I rest my case. Wanna know how you wind up with a load of expensive junk that doesn't go anywhere, look no further than this post.

Orr, I told ya. I rest my case with you too.

A classic case of ignorance to gain acceptance. Case closed.[/quote]

Whats wrong with AFR heads if that's what you chose without any advice? There are the ones I'm chosing after my little research done for what I'm building(off topic)

 

Isn't hot rodding all about making what you have work?

 

Yes, it is. It's not about shiny cool parts and catalog builds. I have tremendous respect for people who run 11s on good old "junkyard engines". I have a few friends who do it. I know a guy, B&B Engines, who runs 9s with camel hump heads in a Chevelle.

That's the difference between hotrodders and hacks.

 

I think you're missing my point.

It's not about AFR heads. They are a great product. Just as good as anything else out there in their class, like TFS for example. And almost as good as others like Brodix or Dart on the other side.

It's about the fact that every build is the same

1. AFR heads
2. Comp Cams
3. one of 3 intake

Whether it's appropriate or not. I can't believe no one came up with Bullet or Crower as an alternative until I mentioned it. Someone said "I never heard of them"...WHAT? The oldest and most respected names in racing and never heard of them? It's a forum vacuum, and that's a problem.

There's no though that goes into any response. I've seen people reccomend heads when they aren't needed. I don't understand this compulsion. Guy says "I want 350 HP"...buy heads. DON'T NEED THEM. Geeze, no one wants to listen they just want to be part of a club.

The point is to get what you want out of an engine at the lowest cost.

 

I agree with you from what I've read on the forum. Thats why I went off topic briefly That was me that never heard of them (Bullet). But my build is in some ways similar to the OP but I'm shooting for 1/4 mile times with certain stock or stock style parts like stock rear end and gears for example. My job(Army and deployed now as I type) doesnt allow me to do as my research and calling as I would like so I try to depend you TGO users for simple solutions to my quest. Difference with me is I know you have to step outside the box "AFR Heads, Comp Cams, etc...." for my goals.

 

Thank you for your service.

Why did you never hear of them. Because no one here told you they exist. It's all comp comp comp.

And there's nothing wrong with Comp, but geeze. You know what I'm saying. It's a mob mentality.

I think it's not based on malice, but ignorance.

And that's just a brand thing, not a performance thing. People who say "buy heads" as the first thing to do, aren't helping anyone, like Vincent said, a pile of expensive junk that produces mediocre results. THEN the funny part, is when everyone comes in to worship mediocre results. That's when you know you're getting bad advice.

 

You welcome Your're right about cam choices here. It's all Comp Cams lol. But to TGO members defense, they're putting up good numbers with LTR intake with Comp Cams so I think thats why its 1 of the favorites. Me I have 1 goal in mind, consistnat 10.8x in the 1/4 mile on nitrous!! I don't care who make the cam!!

Off to duty!!

 

When it gets to the point where the discussion isn't which head, but which AFR head, and not which cam but which Comp Cam, and not which intake, but which of 3....it's not really a good conversation.

There's a big world out there with a lot of choices, that could really help someone get to where they want to be. I don't see the point of limiting it to one or two manufacturers of anything.

Check your PMs.

 

Guys went fast with old junk for years, sure you still can but why. You wont want to deal with the manners..Unless you are totally budget prohibited or stuck in a stock class racing it makes sense to get the better parts.

Its like eating hotdogs every night when a steak is almost the same price.

I like steak.

 

I'm not jumping on the AFR band wagon. I'm still going to run my TFS heads I had since 2002. I'm going to finish porting them out and they will work just fine. I dont care what anyone say about them. But one thing for sure is that I will make more power than the ones with AFR's and I will prove it. The TPI is not going to max out the heads anyway. To me the AFR street heads are high HP heads but the TPI is not. So why go that route if you're not going to add power adders.

For the record, I doubt it could be done to make 500whp TPI without spending close to $10,000 without power adders. But I could be wrong. Maybe with a stroked out small block 500cu. Look how much money will be in the block itself.

 

So, you would advocate a person with low cash availability just jump out there and grab parts they know nothing about instead of known parts that work.

Brilliant!!!!!!

 

Well what options do we have? The 2 best are HSR and minriam...both proven intakes and easy to install and convert..but these are your EFI options if upgrading from TPI

1: miniram
2: stealth ram hsr
3: superam
4: aftermarket TPI including first
5: converted LT1
6: proflow XT
7: Ramjet
8: single plane EFI
9: sheet metal intake

They all work on TPI, just depends on what look you want


These threads need to be put to rest IMO. If you want power, just go turbo...its not as intimidating as it seems. Buy a welder, tack up your pipes and have some finish weld it, and just go boosted... just saying...i'm biased

 

There in lies the master statement.

A quick search of the web will bring up countless documented ,dynoed, combos.
Pick one you like that suits your needs and budget.
Someone else has already done the hard work and spent the $$$ to make it work

Instead we get the
"I want to run the 250 duration , solid cam my buddy gave me on my stock 305 TBI
and pass emissions"

 

I think a big portion of it is that it takes little thought to mess with things like Comp and AFR. You don't even have to fill out any paperwork, really. Plug and play, and they will even give you guidelines on "what will most likely work for you" for the every day person. No homework needed. Our society is based on getting results NOW, and that doesn't really work well with making a "perfect" build. People like simple, but having a healthy engine work wonders isn't something simple. I personally went with Comp for my first build because the person teaching me has used them many times in his lifetime. I am also learning to make my own path, and I actually kind of like Lunati's shelf grinds better (albeit my next will be a solid as I want to try those as well as being a custom grind I think). It's a toss up between Lunati and Crower, but that's from my digging around. Everyone else was happy just following the crowd, but I think part of getting that "magical engine" is investing into knowledge - not money. Money can't necessarily prevent mistakes, but knowledge can.

I agree with you, though. There's a ton to be said about those guys who can invest $500 into a junkyard motor and run high 11's. That's just awesome any way you look at it - especially out of a small cube motor.

 

I would actually like to try a turbo, but I've heard it's not fun when you want to do it with a carburetor. I am not as educated on blow-thru setups though, so that could be wrong (and I really hope it is because the thought of a fat turbo lurking under the hood sounds AWESOME).

 

Quite the opposite if you read the thread. I advocate giving good, real advice not advocating cool parts.

I advocate that someone with low cash availability, like a $3000 to get 350-400CHP is not told to go buy a set of $1500 heads, when it's not necessary.

That's what I advocate.

Vince said it. When you get this kind of cool parts advice you wind up with a bunch of expensive parts and a pig of an engine.

Why would anyone disagree with that? Or do you just not see what happens?

 

I agree

I don't see that as a good thing. Nothing was LEARNED and vince's comments were about education.

And on the other hand, there are other perfectly good combinations that don't include AFR and COMP and they are never discussed, at least I haven't seen it. In some ways, this can be a very myopic place with limited choices and if the goal is to LEARN as Vince put it, nobody is learning anything.

Search the word "Cylinder head" or "Head" here. Or "CAM".

You'll see that a VAST majority come back these two brands. You will also notice that when another brand is mentioned the thread dies and goes 10 pages back after 2 posts.

I just don't consider those kinds of results valuable.

Right, but it's how we define results. People can't wait to dance around something that is mediocre at best because it has the "right" parts. I look at some of these "results" and shrug my shoulders and see people celebrating them. I don't get it.

I could not have said it better myself. DIGGING AROUND in other words actually learning something. "Invest knowledge, not money" GREAT LINE. One great point after another there. If you didn't "dig around" you never would know Crower existed, and how would that have benefited you? I think this is borne of limited experience by people giving advice, as well as the peer acceptance as I said.

There is nothing wrong with COMP or AFR, both are GREAT products, but not the ONLY products. I think as a forum community to limit people's exposure to one product per part, is a dis-service and that members trying to learn don't learn anything past what is cool. Catalog builds.

And those guys are the ones I want to learn from. And let's face it, most of us on this board, are those guys. I would love to see everyone do that high 11 $500 motor. (not realistic but you know) But sometimes mob rule and peer acceptance take over and people spend $4000 for high 11s. You tell me who is smarter.

 

Manners? Carbs had lousy "manners" because they are based on vacuum at low RPMs. FI doesn't suffer from "manners" issues like carbs did since they are not based on vacuum. Between new cam profiles, and FI tuning, manners is a straw horse to get people to buy junk. In this forum we are talking all FI setups. That point simply does not hold. Because of FI you can do some pretty radical cams and keep the manners in check through the tune.

Steak isn't the same price, and that's not the point. I've corrected you on one occassion when the suggestion is "just buy AFR heads" when it's not necessary for the goals.

Look at this thread
:
https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/tpi/601313-zz4.html

Do you REALLY think "go buy heads" for this guy is the right suggestion? REALLY?

and how many **** poor results have we seen people rejoice over because they have the right "cool" parts? I've seen plenty.

And if you want steak, you don't tell someone to guy buy a $600 grill to cook it on, because if you don't cook it on a $600 grill, it won't be the same. And I know, you realize, there is more than one cut of steak, and when we start calling a flank steak fillet mignon, and telling people to eat it, I have a problem with that.

 

I disagree with your assesment on heads, it doesn't hold up in the real world. "High HP Heads" don't even show up here. Your TFS heads will do everything an AFR head will do, and more if done right. See Vincent, there's the issue, you haven't learned that. Your pinning AFR as the industry standard, and it's not, it's just one of many choices, which are all equal. Nothing makes my point better than that statement.

Don't cave to peer acceptance, you are no less off with your TFS setup.

Unfortunately, there are people who will lie to you and tell you differently so that you can be cool too.

Good choice, you are giving up nothing. Don't let anyone lie to you any different.

I have some magic 30lb injectors for you. If you use them you'll get 100 More HP. Can we start that rumor? Please? I can use the money.

 

Thats the issue... alot of us are more familiar with one or 2 product brands and thus use them as guidelines. Alot my buddy's were using comp cams back in the day for their LT1's (CC503, CC306, etc) and when LS1 game became big they used those comp grinds again (XE-R lobes). Heck I ordered a custom grind from a well known cam grinder and he had COMP grind it for him! I was surprised to see a comp cam card

I've seen alot of results with comp's XFI lineup in the 268-280 models... Good cams, i'd like to see them on a 109-110 lsa but they work. I"m tuning a friends car with that 280 cam and for a heads/cam/intake stock bottom L98, its capable of a high 11 second passs if we can get it to hook but has low 12's all day long,(old worn nitto drags) and the heads arent great heads... THey work and they drive nice, so its ok to recommend it, and I'm sure other grinders out there have their own versions

Theres a big difference here. If a guy is on a budget, just wants speed and heads/cams the crap out of a stock bottom end and runs 11's....congrats thats awesome and its been done in the past by a few members here. BUT theres abit of risk in doing this with an old motor and turning high rpms on stock bottom ends. Its like the guys that put 15+ psi on the stock bottom end, or spray 200+ hp shots. It may work but for how long? One slip up in the tune and the entire motor is gone. I see no problem with going to a fresh motor for any motor build. A fresh motor to me is a good investment and piece of mind. If you have the money to spend, you are not doing wrong because you didnt use a $500 yard special

 

Exactly Orr. Nail meet head. The issue is that when someone comes in and says "HEY HOW ABOUT CROWER or BULLET"...(just an example) when those who are only familiar with a particular brand jump all over them rather than hear them out. There's nothing wrong with ignorance, but there is when people refuse to recognize it.

Right. They are a great product. But if someone tells you that a COMP grind is superior to any other grind, let's say BULLET which is in many truly fast cars, and if you don't use COMP your car will run like crap, that's where we as a community have failed.



Not saying that isn't an option. But that's not the goal. Let's start with the goal. "I want to get into 11s"....maybe or maybe not the answer is heads/cam. Maybe it's just cam/intake/headers, which is cheaper, and more balanced.

I had a guy call me the other day and wanted to do a 300 shot on a stock L98. I told him he could do it. Once. I don't know what people are thinking sometimes.

I don't disagree with any of that. I spent $12K on my engine by the time I was done. But I think my results are what I wanted, and I don't measure results by dyno numbers. I was on the dyno once, to check some inaccuracies in my O2 vs. Spark plug readings, but the number wasn't what I was going for.

The issue is, if you spend let's say $6000 and get XXX results or you can spend $5000 and get better results based on your criteria, why in the world would anyone celebrate the $6000 package? It happens.

remember the two dyno charts I put up? One had all kinds of exotic parts and the other was a basic build, they were within the margin of error for any dyno?

 

Well I'm going by what I've seen on the dyno. I've seen many different combos and i've seen what works and what doesn't. I've seen guys spend $4000 on parts and make 300-325whp while other spent the same amount of money and made 370-397whp.

I think the reason people want Comp Cams more than anything else and a few other parts because they live in the Jegs and Summit catalogs. Thats because depending on where people live, there's no local speed shops around. Basiclly just look for a cam with a 112-114LSA and you will be fine with FI. Most speed shops are still dealing with carb setups and maybe late late model FI setups. They only offer the Edelbrock TPI and thats it. And they don't have much info on how to make it work. Comp, Lunati and Crane are about the only one that avertise cams that works for TPI. Most cam they avertise are for LSx engines LT1 cams will work in TPI engines.

 

One thought it through, the others didn't, it can't be attributed to one specific part, but by the combination. Modifying one part in the combo could have been a world of difference, either way. But there is no one part that can always make an improvement.

Mine is a philosophical discussion, not directed at a product. The internet is a big place, and it transcends Summit and Jegs. There is room to learn and places to learn it.


I agree, bu let's not be victims of advertising and assume it's the only way to go. Even I think this is dead now..

 

Carb tuning isnt hard and with neat things like an LM1 it goes pretty fast, takes the guess work out of it.

Oh yes they do lol. Way more sensitive than a carb, too but once the tune is nailed driveability is superior

Thats where the money is these days, many modding those motors.

People are going to recommend what they want, why is that such a problem.
A responder may not know it he has a few hun laying around to take the next step between an Ok part and a stellar one. At least options were given.

Are you recommending something?

 

"Well what options do we have?"

Some of us a lot less than what you have listed if you have to pass California smog. It is a good idea to have heads with a C.A.R.B number and a heat riser for the EGR in our area. For our OBD1 ECMs we are limited to the amount of cam overlap in order to pass the smog sniffer. The tuning capabilities are less than the OBD2 ECMs.

As to a lot of what was posted above, I know I have left my waders around here somewhere.