88fastgta

iTrader: (9)

well guys i am putting on the adapter and throttle body right now... ill take pics when the conversion is done.. ill post back in a few hours...

88fastgta

iTrader: (9)

ok guys.. here is just the plate on (sorry guys used camera phone)

88fastgta

iTrader: (9)

and the conversion completed (again sorry guys crappy camera phone)

d00012

That is nice...looks stock now.

1989GTATransAm

iTrader: (3)

I agree. That really came out good.

dfarr67

iTrader: (2)

Exactly what I was thinking- I would probably weld onto plenum. Do you think Ken would sell the manifold w/o the TB? I think he was insulted when I remarked the TB was 'brutish' looking- that wouldn't keep me from buying it.... but the linkage looks too cheezy. Now all you have to talk him into doing is making the oe fuel rails fit so I don't have to buy a new fpr.

dfarr67

iTrader: (2)

Any reason why the plate is so thick? Or is the new plenum that short- placing the TB more or less where it was with the old plenum?
How's it run?

1989GTATransAm

iTrader: (3)

"Now all you have to talk him into doing is making the oe fuel rails fit so I don't have to buy a new fpr."

I made the OE fuel rail system fit on my First intake manifold. However I did use SLP runners and the factory plenum. I had to have shorter cross over tubes made up. I also needed four adaptors for the bolt holes. You could add weld to the bolt hole area and drill and tap the four holes instead of using adaptors. I am not sure how much clearance there would be between the bottom of the First plenum and the factory fuel rail system for it to fit. One might have to mill off some of the First plenum bottom.

dfarr67

iTrader: (2)

Any pics? Hmm why not use the FIRST system as a whole?

Trinten

Looks slick man! I don't know why you kept apologizing for your pictures, they looked sharp and clear to me (your camera phone is much better in quality than mine!)

Also big props to Ken at FIRST for going through the trouble of making a one-off part, that's some seriously dedicated customer service!

1989GTATransAm

iTrader: (3)

Yes, in this thread. There are some pictures in the 4th post showing the OEM fuel rail. https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/tpi/...ifold-slp.html

I already had a highly modified factory plenum and SLP runners and did not want to start over again. So I made them fit the First intake manifold.

88fastgta

iTrader: (9)

drove it around guys and i have no more stuck throttle issues.... no power loss....no more high idle or anything.....all the problems i had before are gone and it idles like it used to back when i had the edelbrock/slp combo... i am sooooo happy..... its thick because the plate needs enough meat for the bolts to thread into the intake.... besides in person it doesnt look thick at all.. i like the look alot better.... here is a video of my car idiling with the adapter on....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NUxzB...1&feature=plcp

88fastgta

iTrader: (9)

on a quick note the only mod i had to do was drill and tap a vaccum source for the pcv valve... the First manifold does not have a pcv manifold vac port so i just tapped into the side bracket where the egr would be on the FIRST to get my manfiold vac....

dfarr67

iTrader: (2)

Nitrous Plate

Abubaca

iTrader: (3)

As someone who has never like the appearance of the FIRST intake, I gotta say that looks a TON better than the LSx style TB. I really like it. ......if they'd only come up with a dizzy cover I might be convinced!!!!!

dfarr67

iTrader: (2)

Looks or not- if it performs as billed.....I pulled the trigger on the vortec style- EGR has been discontinued due to nondemand. Ken agreed that if I wasn't happy with the TB I would get a credit. I asked for gasket matching and install of PCV.

1989GTATransAm

iTrader: (3)

"if they'd only come up with a dizzy cover I might be convinced"

If the grooves lined up that could be done. Just a little milling involved and drilling and tapping for the screws.

88fastgta

iTrader: (9)

It would be pretty easy to put a dizzy plate on here... just simply drill and tap bolts like stock and ur done... but I actually like the dizzy exposed..

dfarr67

iTrader: (2)

Been searching around and can't seem to locate a thread where the guy modified the stock fuel rails to fit the first??

88fastgta

iTrader: (9)

that would be 1989gtatransam that did that.... i think that was like 3 or 4 years ago when he did that....


edit.... i think this is what your looking for

https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/tpi/...ifold-slp.html

Trinten

When will you have it tuned and on the dyno! I've been itching to see that sheet!

(if you posted it already... I somehow missed it, and I apologize)

dfarr67

iTrader: (2)

Got it thanks- just recieved my vortec version and afr 0912 heads today. I plan on using factory rails and lines with ported tb.

dfarr67

iTrader: (2)

FYI, before I bought the FIRST I asked Ken if he would take back the TB if I didn't like it- he got it back and credited the amount of the TB, it'll be a wash as far as getting the adapter made, but at least I'm not stuck selling it.

88fastgta

iTrader: (9)

how are you going to make an adapter.... ken made mine and all of my problems went away and i never had a single problem from it.... this is why i will never sell the intake because its truly one of a kind....

dfarr67

iTrader: (2)

In my mind- that TB had nothing going for it. New generation TB's have sealed bearings, etc real quality stuff, TPI TB's weren't great either but when rebuilt with bushings and bored/ported they are decent, mine flows 795cfm. I think Ken inhereted the package, I really don't know why the original engineer didn't make it compatible with as many oe parts as possible- easy to find, reliable, oe proven, cheap- I'll be making the adapter and reusing the fuel rails as the plumbing has no need of being changed for bling. Ken said he wouldn't be making any more of those adapters and suggested hp loss, but I'll take the loss over a better TB. That adapter should be an easy cnc- I've also opened up the throat on the plenum horizontally to ease the transition a little more. The adapter will be made out of 1 in stock and machined out- I also took the side plate off and welded the 90deg TB hole closed- the original throttle bracket will be positioned here as per stock.

calebzman

iTrader: (3)

I got lucky and the guy I bought my used First intake from had an adapter made for it. I like the look of the stock TB much better and you don't have to mess with the sensor mounts. Everything else on the First is excellent.

88fastgta

iTrader: (9)

yea everything on the first is excellent except for that throttlebody..... i guess me and you are the only ones that have adapted the stock type throttle body on these FIRST intakes... honestly i didnt notice any power loss either..... so i dont know what ken is talking about...

Trinten

The possible power loss might be related to certain engine builds, or certain power levels and power bands.

So it might not affect 95% of the people out there (or be so minor that it would be attributed to a temperature change), but could noticeably impact other people.

dfarr67

iTrader: (2)

So is anybody making these adapters out of 3/4 - 1in alum?

dfarr67

iTrader: (2)

Hi,
Having MaxBore.com fab up a 1in spacer/adapter for my FIRST vortec intake. For my own reasons I'm continuing with the use of the original ported TB. This isn't a group buy- just a FYI if you want to add to the order, cost is $150 or if you know somebody cheaper....George will supply a 1 in alum plate with all bolt holes threaded and countersunk and will machine a basic +-2in slot for the GM TB- you will have to finish off with any tapers needed- since the FIRST is square and the GM TB is more 'oval' I see two tapers needed on the horizontal outboard sides TB side. I had George bore out a Toyota TB a few years ago and he did a good job. Ken at FIRST won't make these.

Gen1

I guess this thread is Dead !! lol I just got one of these intake and boy they are nice.

RS Chris

Understatement of the new year.

Gen1

Now, thats funny !

SbFormula

Just to add to this thread for information:

Gen1

The First Intake, is a nice piece, and the guy who makes them Ken, has always called be back every time I had to leave a message with him, he has spent a lot of time on the phone with me talking about all the little things that are involved with the changing this intake.
He did all of these this, even knowing.. I bought my intake system 2nd hand and not from him. Super Guy !

JJ63

iTrader: (1)

Very Nice. I been thinking about getting a 383 for my Trans Am. Do you know the hp/torque of your engine if it had a carb?

SbFormula

With a carb, GM has it at 435HP/445LB-FT
https://www.chevrolet.com/performanc...s/sp383-deluxe

Hotrod Magazine had it dynoed at a little more than that
https://www.hotrod.com/articles/test...t-performance/

With my FIRST intake, I'd say just a bit over 400HP with close to 500lb-ft peak. I haven't had it dynoed yet. Too much on the go. At some point I'll get it on the dyno to dial in the timing and AFR.

I pulled a 1/4 mile in 12.7sec @ 108mph for 3700lbs (gas & driver). 0-60mph in 4.5s, That's with drag radials on the street with 25lbs. On 94 Octane with 32* max SA and 12.7 ave AFR. 72DegF temp, Baro 103kpa and 50% humidity.

So I'd say 360RWHP, maybe 400-420HP at flywheel?

It's restricted though. Could improve on a lot of minor things like synthetic oil in tranny, rear end and engine. Better ignition system, full porting, but most importantly, 1 3/4 long tube headers with double pipes instead of 1 5/8" shorty with 2.5" single into 3" cat back.

Cheers!

SbFormula

Absolutely

BadSS

Back when Precision Race Engines was selling crate engines they offered a carbed, dual plane, 10.5:1, 383 making 425HP @5800 and 440lb/ft @4500.

They sold a 383 FIRST combo with same compression and heads with an undisclosed cam that made 425HP @5500 and 500lb/ft @an undisclosed RPM. I suspect the cam was about the same and the peak torque was probably in the mid to high 3K range.

It doesn’t make quite as much power as SB’s SP383 engine, but should give an idea of what to expect to see on an engine around that power level.

JJ63

iTrader: (1)

Thanks, that's exactly what I wanted to know. I'll lose about 20-25 hp but gain 50-60 tq. Not a bad trade-off. The only thing that concerns me from the video is that the peaks are at lower rpm than the carb version.