Those number are through a heavy moser 12 bolt (33 spline axles). Just imagine if I would have done it with a 9 bolt.

 

Just because you make improvements above the TPI base, eliminates it from the TPI world...I don't think so.

 

There aint much out here.
Irwindale. only 1/8 mi though. TPI car would shine there, mine not so much lol

Agreed!! Last superram I did I siamesed to about the halfway mark in the runner then ported far as I could
There needs to be more meat on the topside of those runners throughout the turn they are simply too thin, and small in dia period imo.

Nice results there guys keep up the good work.

 

89GTA (Allen) has run mid 11's already with bad ADA

 

Awsome!

 

"Agreed!! Last superram I did I siamesed to about the halfway mark in the runner then ported far as I could
There needs to be more meat on the topside of those runners throughout the turn they are simply too thin, and small in dia period imo."

Yes, and that is why we weld them up to add material. We also weld and sleeve the bottom center bolts and make them longer.

 

Yeah my busted hands, knuckles, grinding valve covers to clear those runners thank you for that work

 

A Miniram or Stealthram, no I wouldnt consider those TPI. But a Superram or a siamesed runner intake? Heck yes I consider those still TPI.

Allen made a long tube runner setup using 2" runners. Allen, did you post those results?

 

"Allen made a long tube runner setup using 2" runners. Allen, did you post those results? "

I posted the numbers from both sets. Unfortunately I did not get to tune the first set. I think after reviewing things it would have done better with some adjustments to the fuel tables.

 

I dont think the superram is any more TPI than a Stealthram is but I can see your argument. Point is that the TPI intake setup does not lend itself to making good power, and switching to a superram will fix that. I think that says volumes about TPI. I know its the same electronics and ECM and maybe even the same intake base, but you can use those same electronics with a stealth ram and you dont consider that TPI. Maybe Don does? Again I see the argument I just disagree a bit.

And that 2 inch TPI setup, very, very cool. But the numbers still werent all that impressive out of it. I thought it was very well made, very well designed, and maybe he's right that it just needs some better tuning, but he didnt seem all that thrilled with the numbers then or now. The TPI design philosophy of long runners is just a huge bottleneck when it comes to horsepower numbers.

And please dont take any offense to that 1989GTATransAm.... I loved those threads and I along with everyone else that followed that build are glad you did it. You did an amazing job with it, and it was worth trying. Perhaps theres more power in that setup, maybe there's not, but it was a worthwhile project that was very well executed. So please dont think Im taking potshots at it. I just think you took the factory TPI architecture to its design limits and beyond... sort of a ***** to the wall proof of concept to see what it could really do, and while it turned out impressive numbers, I think even you think it should have done more.

So yeah its really cool that they made all that power on stock GM electronics, very, very cool. Even cooler that they did it with a Gen I sbc. You just dont see many over 400hp and fuel injected AND naturally aspirated. Very cool. But I dont think it redeems the TPI system.

 

 

I've seen 6-10rwhp difference in rears. What were the SAE corrected numbers? Prolly not much diff but just curious...

 

Use of a factory TPI style base with a similar plenum and runner with factory computer IMO is still considered TPI. Change all that and I would consider it EFI.

 

Allen's LTR project has proved TPI can make power. Individual runners from plenum to head, you don't get much more TPI than that.

 

Who is this guy? I'm sure glad I got his blessing on spending MY money to impress him. On what he considers or doesn't consider a TPI.

Is that like a nice way of telling my boy Allen "I'm sure glad YOU spent all that time and money on a project that isn't up to my standards"?

 

None actually.

 

Well it said TPI in the thread title, but it was stated right away with Super Ram. Since it was never said to be a complete stock TPI setup I really don't see the big point in arguing over a thread's title?

Stock TPI is different than Super Ram/MiniRam/Stealth Ram or etc. If I swapped one of those aftermarket intakes on a car I would still call it a "TPI". It's just not a stock GM TPI setup. The car industry has been putting TPI styles (tuned port injections) on all different models over the years even on 3800 series v6.

That being said it's still rather impressive to see those numbers for a L98 with factory TPI harness and ecm, even if it was flashed or changed in some way. It's nice to see people are still using factory ECMs instead of just dumping them for FAST or Holley EFI (HP or Dominator setups). Did I miss what injector sizes were used?

 

[quote]Well it said TPI in the thread title, but it was stated right away with Super Ram. Since it was never said to be a complete stock TPI setup I really don't see the big point in arguing over a thread's title? [quote/]

[quote]
I know its the same electronics and ECM and maybe even the same intake base, but you can use those same electronics with a stealth ram and you dont consider that TPI. Maybe Don does? Again I see the argument I just disagree a bit.[quote/]


According to your logic, since we used AFR heads ...it's not a small block Chevy anymore...get over it.

However you are entitled to disagree

 

So what you guys are arguing is that this isn't a TPI? Does it even matter?

So an LT1 with a Carb on top is no longer an LT1?
An LS1 with a fast intake, holley, edelcrock, or carb is no longer an LS1?
OR even better how do people call everything an LSx when they're really LQs, 4.8, 5.3s or anything other that doesn't come with an "LS" from GM.

(I'm not trying to start a TPI vs LT or LS since the locals that know me know that I have a few LS engines willing to play. Heck I even have a 5.0 mustang)

It's kinda annoying that those few of you can't simply give credit where credit is due.

 

great numbers!!!

 

No not at all. A lot of really impressive work and design went into that. Im just going by his reaction to it. Just because the intake didnt live up his wildest expectations doesnt mean it was a waste of time or money or not up to anyone's standards. If anything to me it's just the ideal best case scenario intake for a long tube runner intake system. It's a reference point and it still made some very impressive power numbers that even a heavily modified stock setup would have a very, very hard time reaching. I think he accomplished something fantastic. But I think he also took the LTR architecture to its limit and found the wall. Even if he didnt find the max power potential of that setup, I dont think you could build any LTR system better than he did. It at least represents the theoretical perfect LTR system. It also looks friggin amazing. I love the top notch work he put into that and I'd be very proud of it. I didnt mean to slight it at all. I apologize if that's how it came out.

 

You take off the tuned port injection runners and plenum and replace it with a super ram. The numbers it makes cannot be matched by a TPI setup, even with aftermarket runners. Its clearly different. It looks different. It functions differently. It addresses the main achilles' heel of the TPI architecture - the long runners. It does not represent a TPI system. What it does show is what the stock TPI electronics and base are capable of, and that's fantastic.

I dont think that makes it any less impressive, or any less a smallblock. You just dont see numbers like that out of EFI Gen I sbc's... It's great to see streetable EFI Gen I's churning those kind of numbers out.

 

Very nice work guys! I wish I was closer, I'd like to come dyno my junk and get it tuned. Its a maf car tho.

On the 305 vs 350 chips, I have put a 350 in a 305 auto tpi car and the topend was dead/ just layed down, swapped in the 350 chip an the topend was crazy better. It just kept pulling and pulling..

 

If i can add to this, you normally dont see those kinds of numbers from an efi sbc of those cubes, using any tpi style base regardless of the runners. Runners restrict but base is even more of a restriction. Guys have made similar hp for years with other intakes and different cubes. Traxxion was around 400 with miniram on stock bottom end many years ago. Most dont make the long runner torque tho. Most i have seen lately is 521whp on a single plane efi 406.

The electronics are up to the task, these systems arent that low tech, they actually do well. My turbo car ran 140+mph traps on same 730 ecm

 

TPI Haters keep Hating,

Meanwhile, the dyno guys are out there turning wrenches and putting down the numbers!

 

You're pointless to debate with. You're the type of person that needs to have the last word. Continue going on threads giving people props but then discredit the accomplishment. As far as your opinion matters to me, call my engine a MPI Mutt Port Injection. Sounds good for you? Now go out and BUILD something. Let's see your brain work.

 

I'm not sure how you consider a LTR runner setup and a Superram setup to function differently, just because of a larger plenum and shorter runners, but hey, as the others said, its your opinion.

 

An LT1 or an LS1 with a carburetor on it would be like getting a brand new computer and hooking it up to a black and white monitor.

 

Isn't the SuperRam a Smog Legal replacement for a stock TPI upper?

Soundsd like its still a TPI to me.

 

Hey you're right but there's plenty of them out there. Guy that purchased my LS2 pulled up to my house with one. 6.0 with a Carb on it.

 

Those are pretty good numbers out of a tpi type build.
400+rw in anything is dam good
But i think i will stick to my ls motors for now

 

Not necessarily so.
Alot of folks have gotten em to run just as hard and good with carbs.
Theres even specific cams grinds for ls motors with carbs.
Even GMPP makes and sells carb intake manifolds for cathedral,rectangle and ls7 heads.
Even released ls2 crate motors with in house cnc heads, carb specific cam, and intake.
One of the first LSX block builds was carbureted. The 454 for reggie jackson's camaro.

 

I wasnt trying to discredit anything. I apologize to everyone I offended if it came out that way.

 

Carbs are for making me fatter, not to put on my motor.

 

Update:
I changed the program to the Corvette AXCN bin.
Tranferred the fuel and spark tables from my bin.
I am here to tell you "there is a difference"
no wide open yet but, the engine revs easier, faster, smoother and even shifts smoother threw the gears.
Really looking forward to see the results on the dyno now.

 

Very interesting. I will have to take a look at those bin files and do a compare. I havent gotten around to it. Reving faster and such could be differences in iac/throttle follower type settings and AE mode differences perhaps. Keep us posted.

 

Good news Don. Let's hope the dyno proves this out. You now need to do it to Kevin's car. That one has been the biggest mystery. It really drops off like going over a cliff. By the way was that all you had to do was just transfer the fuel and spark tables?

 

Allen, we did the Corvette bin changes on my car first, Saturday. I noticed it made a difference in how the engine ran. A bit smoother, a bit better on take off. It depends on how well calibrated my butt-dyno is, of course.

I simply opened TunerCat, compared both bin files, and then zero'd the fuel and spark tables so they would be the same between chips. Along with adjusting the injector constant, and idle rpms, and fan temps, etc, of course.

 

So the new question is, when are we(stick shift,Tpi powered) going back on the rollers?

 

Thanks Kevin. Adrian, no more dyno time for you. Hahahaha.

So it looks like the stick shift guys may be unleashed and on their way. There was probably some hidden code in the "305" program that was hindering things.

 

What I'm on time out now lol. I might be dumb enough to do those small changes and see what's left in her.

 

That would be very interesting. Especially with the new Corvette program thrown in.

 

A stock TPI is still the best looking motor by far.

 

So is there anybody here on the east coast do what you guys do out there or do i have to ship the car out?

 

If all goes well, the combination going into my car should turn out some decent numbers It's a shame I have to de-tune it to run 12.00 or slower for the class I'm bracket racing in though

 

You guys act like this is an official submission into the Guiness book of world records or something. Semantics are so pointless. Impressive results!

 

It is official, didn't you know?

 

Just as an aside, which one of you SoCal guys are still using some type of LTR on a 350 and what's the highest observed power from it?

 

To each.his own