New Engine Bugs
Thread Starter
Junior Member
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 5
Likes: 0
From: Tucson Arizona
Car: 1989 Camaro RS
Engine: 305 TBI
Transmission: 700R4
New Engine Bugs
Having a few issues that need some fresh minds to help with. The car is a 71 Chevelle with a 92 Firebird Vin 8 TPI engine and trans setup. The car was finished back in 98 when fuel injection swaps where not popular yet. Needless to say the stock 350 wasnt much fun and the car has been sitting for a while not really being used.
We talked my boss into doing something different with it. So he went ahead and odered 383 intake to oil pan engine from TPIS. No expense was spared in the build. The engine was dyno tuned by TPIS at 508 HP.
Got everything in the car no real issues with the swap. Added a MSD 6AL digital ignition system. Fired it up and everyting was happy. Took it out for a test drive and thats where the issues started. It didnt want to run right, give it gas and it would load up and hardly get out of its own way. Then clear up and run great on the top end and bad on the bottom end.
We have tried 3 different PCM's that didnt help. TPIS has sent us 3 differnt programed piggy back chips. Still didnt help. Hunted down a new PROM. Still nothing. Swapped out 3 differnt MAP sensors. NOPE. Tried fuel pressure from 35 to 43 PSI. Still nothing. Checked grounds, replaced grounds, check 5 volt reference, rechecked it. Took MSD out completely, thinking that was causing it. Checked timing a few diffrent times. tried 6 degrees 8 degrees and I think 10 degrees aslo. Nothing seems to help.
TPIS seems to only be concerned with the block learn and that it needs to be at 128. It wont get close to 128 at all and sits at 108 pretty much all the time. We asked them about some "odd" scanner readings and they dont seem to worried about it. With the car sitting and running at idle just fine the scanner is showing 700 to 3300 rpm and jumps all over the place pretty fast. The MAP readings are WAY out there 500 to 1600 volts and they to jump all over. Pretty much we dont have a "good" number any where on the scanner for this car. They also went to tell us that our brand new less than 6 month old snap on verus isnt working right. I find that hard to believe when i have had my own 89 Camaro and customers 90 Firebird on that same scanner and they have awesome steady reading.
Adding the last readings we took so theres something to look at. Getting really frustrated at this point and looking from some help. Starting to peronally think its a wiring issue that is getting over looked but no to sure. I dont really want to tell my boss we have to rewire the whole car and it not fix it.
Thanks for taking the time to read.
We talked my boss into doing something different with it. So he went ahead and odered 383 intake to oil pan engine from TPIS. No expense was spared in the build. The engine was dyno tuned by TPIS at 508 HP.
Got everything in the car no real issues with the swap. Added a MSD 6AL digital ignition system. Fired it up and everyting was happy. Took it out for a test drive and thats where the issues started. It didnt want to run right, give it gas and it would load up and hardly get out of its own way. Then clear up and run great on the top end and bad on the bottom end.
We have tried 3 different PCM's that didnt help. TPIS has sent us 3 differnt programed piggy back chips. Still didnt help. Hunted down a new PROM. Still nothing. Swapped out 3 differnt MAP sensors. NOPE. Tried fuel pressure from 35 to 43 PSI. Still nothing. Checked grounds, replaced grounds, check 5 volt reference, rechecked it. Took MSD out completely, thinking that was causing it. Checked timing a few diffrent times. tried 6 degrees 8 degrees and I think 10 degrees aslo. Nothing seems to help.
TPIS seems to only be concerned with the block learn and that it needs to be at 128. It wont get close to 128 at all and sits at 108 pretty much all the time. We asked them about some "odd" scanner readings and they dont seem to worried about it. With the car sitting and running at idle just fine the scanner is showing 700 to 3300 rpm and jumps all over the place pretty fast. The MAP readings are WAY out there 500 to 1600 volts and they to jump all over. Pretty much we dont have a "good" number any where on the scanner for this car. They also went to tell us that our brand new less than 6 month old snap on verus isnt working right. I find that hard to believe when i have had my own 89 Camaro and customers 90 Firebird on that same scanner and they have awesome steady reading.
Adding the last readings we took so theres something to look at. Getting really frustrated at this point and looking from some help. Starting to peronally think its a wiring issue that is getting over looked but no to sure. I dont really want to tell my boss we have to rewire the whole car and it not fix it.
Thanks for taking the time to read.
Supreme Member
iTrader: (3)
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 2,428
Likes: 2
From: Fairview Heights Illinois
Car: 1986 Irocz
Engine: 305 TPI
Transmission: 700R4
Axle/Gears: 3.25:1
Re: New Engine Bugs
Try to eliminate a few more of the obvious checks like vacuum leaks, or fuel-pressure regulator diaphragm leaking into the plenum.
Make sure you don't have any exhaust leaks around the headers at any point.
How does the vacuum read at idle?
What size fuel injectors are you running?
That's a lot of negative blms for idle.
How are the spark plugs looking? I would visually check all of them and make sure none are cracked or damaged.
Check for leaking injectors.
Sometimes in older cars that have been sitting you can get a lot of contaminants into the fuel system from the fuel tank. I would look into that possibility as well.
Make sure your ECM wiring is far clear from any of the secondary-voltage side of your ignition system.
Make sure you don't have any type of fuel additives in the gas that could contaminate your O2 sensor.
You might want to double-check the AFR with a wideband O2 in the tail pipe while running, and I'd probably hood up a different scanner/datalogger as well to see how that goes.
edit: the base PW does seem a little high to me, but that depends on injector size and fuel pressure. I don't know what you had when you took that reading.
Make sure you don't have any exhaust leaks around the headers at any point.
How does the vacuum read at idle?
What size fuel injectors are you running?
That's a lot of negative blms for idle.
How are the spark plugs looking? I would visually check all of them and make sure none are cracked or damaged.
Check for leaking injectors.
Sometimes in older cars that have been sitting you can get a lot of contaminants into the fuel system from the fuel tank. I would look into that possibility as well.
Make sure your ECM wiring is far clear from any of the secondary-voltage side of your ignition system.
Make sure you don't have any type of fuel additives in the gas that could contaminate your O2 sensor.
You might want to double-check the AFR with a wideband O2 in the tail pipe while running, and I'd probably hood up a different scanner/datalogger as well to see how that goes.
edit: the base PW does seem a little high to me, but that depends on injector size and fuel pressure. I don't know what you had when you took that reading.
Thread Starter
Junior Member
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 5
Likes: 0
From: Tucson Arizona
Car: 1989 Camaro RS
Engine: 305 TBI
Transmission: 700R4
Re: New Engine Bugs
The vaccum at idle reads 12 before the car warms up with a block learn of 128. After warmup the block learn drops back down to 108 and the vaccum drops to 10. We replaced the fuel lines, new fuel filter and new 91 octane gas. One thing that i did notice is the build sheet says it has 24 lb injectors. The dyno sheet says it has 30 lb injectors. They are black body with a red top where u plug in the connector. Went back over the settings and put timing at 10 degrees where dyno sheet says they had it. They also where showing 52 psi fuel pressure so we bumped it up to that setting. Wonding if they have the chip programmed for 24lb injectors and we have 30lb ones in it if that is the loading up issue. I know it wont fix the odd readings we are having but at least its a start.
Supreme Member
iTrader: (3)
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 2,428
Likes: 2
From: Fairview Heights Illinois
Car: 1986 Irocz
Engine: 305 TPI
Transmission: 700R4
Axle/Gears: 3.25:1
Re: New Engine Bugs
The vaccum at idle reads 12 before the car warms up with a block learn of 128. After warmup the block learn drops back down to 108 and the vaccum drops to 10. We replaced the fuel lines, new fuel filter and new 91 octane gas. One thing that i did notice is the build sheet says it has 24 lb injectors. The dyno sheet says it has 30 lb injectors. They are black body with a red top where u plug in the connector. Went back over the settings and put timing at 10 degrees where dyno sheet says they had it. They also where showing 52 psi fuel pressure so we bumped it up to that setting. Wonding if they have the chip programmed for 24lb injectors and we have 30lb ones in it if that is the loading up issue. I know it wont fix the odd readings we are having but at least its a start.
The block-learn doesn't work during cold-start warm-up period. That's why it says 128. It sounds like it may run ok at that point but then have problems once going into closed loop. Is that the case?
If the injectors were too big, then it should also be far too rich during the cold-start cycle too. The other change is the commanded idle speed.
Your idle is likely higher during warm-up, then dropping as coolant temp increases. Idle speed will affect the vacuum reading.
Is this a 730 ECM?
There are still a few things to check besides what I already suggested.
I would try to get a millivolts reading on the O2 sensor while the blm is 108. I might also try another O2 sensor after making sure no exhaust leaks.
Is your CCP system hooked up in any way? Is it possible your fuel-tank vent line got routed directly to manifold vacuum?
Do you notice any hissing or pressure sounds when you remove the gas-cap after driving the car?
Is your fuel pressure regulator getting a good manifold vacuum signal? No fuel going through that vacuum line?
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