Let me know I will package up a ecm and ship it in the morning

 

yeah ship it out to see. at this point i dont see why it wont go? it has gas, spark, air, it just wont stay going. im pretty sure wires are all correct. so we'll see. thanks.

 

so i do the test where i unplug all the connectors from the injectors.
then im supposed to check circuit 467&468 which is the green and blue wires to the ecm.
it says to test it with a test light, but i tested it with a multi meter. if i were doing it with a light, its not supposed to turn on, otherwise there is a break in the circuit getting voltage.
when i unpluggede all the connectors, turned the key to the on position, im only getting like 3v, but should i be getting any? any voltage to those wires means that the ecm is bad i think. according to this test. http://www.hotrodlane.cc/ONLINETECH/TPIwontstart.html
What do you know about the injector wires and circuits?

 

I have retraced all my wires and tested to make sure theyre on the right fuse. made sure the ecm is getting power at the two orange wires and at A6.

all pink/blk wires that are from sensors like egr, ses, etc on the gauge circuit.

Power to the fuel pump and relay. relay switches over when key is on.

all sensors have 5v on the plug grey wire

P/n wired in, all aldl extra pins have been added.

Spark on all cylinders, new cap, rotor, pickup coil, plugs, and wires.

ohm reading on all injectors from 16.8-17.3 ohms. they are all good.

Replaced the fuel pump and tested it for proper psi

 

Any progress with the new ecm ?

 

i just found out it came in. lol. thought it would be here monday. but i started to remove the exhaust manifolds to plug up the line fore the smog pump/egr. ill know buy tonight hopefully. or tom. ill keep you informed.

 

bout to bolt the exhaust back up, switched the cover and that chip thing from my old ecm to the new one. what is that long plug in? also i noticed you desoldered this little shield right next to that chip thing, but i assume that its no big deal or you qouldnt have desoldered it, right?
Im a lil afraid it might burn yours up too. should i check anything in particular to ensure this doesnt happen? i saw on the new ecm that t says to ensure that all sensors are no more than 20ohms of resistance or it will fry the ecm. so should i check some things in particular?
Thanks
Dean

 

Some have that shield so do not I really don't know it's function because its not a transistor heat sink maybe its just a ecm I'd tag idk. If you fry it I'm not concerned. You already tripled checked the powers and ground.

 

im gonna quadruple check again today. gotta bolt up the exhaust then just check wires again and hopefully it RUNS!! 8-D Im so excited, i hope it works.

 

Me 2

 

ITS RAINING!! ARG!!

 

That's just liquid sunshine, its snowing here

 

snow i can deal with. push it aside and bundle up. rain is liquid sadness. gettin all over me and splashing in the car, getting my wires all wet(ecm is under driver seat)

Anywho, the weather is nice today, im gonna get out there. been having severe back pain at my herniated disk lately. hoping ill forget bout the pain when my head is wrapped up in wiring schematics.

Wish me luck!!
peace
Dean

 

Herniated discs are horrible to deal with. I had one in my neck replaced last year and spend alot of time in bed. No fun , hope the ecm does the trick

 

Ok, exhaust is back in after plugging egr hole. I checked all the wires for power, c16&B1 orange have 12v constant.

A6 gets 12v with the key on.

All system grounds are secure.

all aldl wires connected from plug c207. (doesnt really matter, serial data)

I unplugged the battery, plugged in the new ECM and started it. it has the same problem. i have to have the key cranked a little bit to keep it running. is there a wire to the ecm that tells it to keep running?

heres a vid i took.
http://s1323.beta.photobucket.com/us...58711.mp4.html

 

I wonder if a6 is the promblem maybe during crank its gets power from the starter solonoid not sure. Maybe just hook it to constant 12v just to test.

 

ok, so you think a6 needs a temporary 12v constant?

what does a6 normally have happen? you put the key in the on position and it has 12v, then i crank the car over, do you think that it stops getting 12v at a6? Should 12v always be there after cranking?

 

ill test it around noon tomorrow.

it starts and "runs" much better now that the exhaust is plugged up and possibly the ecm. we will find out soon enough!!

 

You got it right. Hooking up a temporary 12v will test it real quick

 

you got it!! check for my update around 12-1pm tomorrow.
Thanks!!!!

 

I'm thinking its that or power to the coil on the pink wire. Ill stay tuned lol

 

Is the pink wires to both plugs at the coil supposed to have 12v? i think only the grey plug has 12v.

 

Do test to and measure the resistance in the coil to icm pink jumper wire.

 

Is #1 from B to ground?

 

test 1-1
test 2-1.2
test 3-7.52k

havent hooked up constant power to a6 yet.

 

Seems like it still should be ok with 10amps

 

so those numbers arent anything to worry about? seems normal?

 

If you have another coil you might try it, but the coil is out of spec but it seems like there is just a little amp draw but no voltage loss.

 

I dont have another coil. getting low on funds. im gonna do the a6 constant after i clean the house a bit.

What i think is happening is that when the key is turned, its getting voltage to stay running. when i let off it seems like another 12v source should take over the function of key turning.

it seems like it could be something so simple. just gotta get the function to happen without having to hold the key.

 

I'm not sure what else to suggest

 

The only other thing you might want to look into is the fuel pump wiring. It sounds like you are getting the 2 second prime but maybe there is a issue with the ops. You can allways bypass it for testing the orange to grey wire.

 

Oy, It seems like it should be soo simple. i just know its a wire that should be telling the motor to run. it idles just fine for as long as i hold the key. im gonna check some of my pink black wires to see if the ones from the "gauges" fuse could be connected somewhere else. something.

if i can only rig up a way for power to stay even after i release the key.

Ill check out the pump relay. but it seems more than the 2 sec prime cuz its runs fine with the key turned, then it either loses spark or fuel when released.

 

Read post 54 and figure which wire he has wrong?

He has power crank but not Ign on...

https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/post...43-post52.html

 

Ive checked the pink/black wires, mainly a6, has 12v while ON, c16&B1 are orange constant.

What do you mean by triggering a relay with a wire for ignition power? My van was TBI so it had 2 injectors at the carb.

Can you think of anything specific to wire up to see if it fixes the issue? Ill check anything that anyone suggest.

Thank you so much for chiming back in.

Peace
Dean

 

So this has to be an ignition wiring problem. What ignition checks can i do? any wires to check voltage that are supposed to be constant, ign, etc. anything you can think of.

it starts and idles smooth with the ignition on, what does the ignition wire from the key control? wheres it go? Is there a way to trick it into thinking its turned? something??

 

Mark, i think you are correct. i just realized what you meant by ignition adjustment. i thought you were refering to something the the icm or coil.

How do i adjust it so when the key is on RUN, the igniton switch is also on Run?

Right now after i crank it, i let the key turn back a little and it disengages the starter and runs. so i think the ign switch isnt lined up with the key position.

 

Did you try sliding down the ignition switch ? Any progress Dean ?

 

If the engine is cranking with the key in "start" then the ignition switch is adjusted properly. Moving the electrical portion of the switch will only foul up the adjustment. there is something missing when the key is in "run" that is allowing the engine to run in crank. Start with the basics. The TPI ECM activates the fuel pump relay, first for a 2 second prime, then again when it sees crank reference pulses. Do you have the relay wired some other way? Is the relay getting constant battery power on the red(or orange) wire? Is it possible that the coil is only getting full power when the key is in the start position? Have you verified full battery voltage to all ECM powers and grounds with key in the run position.

I think your problem is something simple that you're overlooking. If the engine runs with the key in the start position and shuts down in run, there has to be a power issue. Have a helper operate the ignition switch while you monitor each power circuit for a drop in run position.

 

You mean after the car is cranked, you think that theres a voltage drop off afterward?

All of the ecm power are getting correct voltage in run position. not sure what they check out at after the car has been cranked.

Ive been over ALL wires multiple multiple times, all relays and wires at ecm are getting the correct 12v where needed.

it seems that when the ignition goes into the run position, it loses spark, so its in the ignition system somewhere. but ive replace everything.

what wires are responsible for having power after run that might just stop supplying voltage after started? is there a place to begin? ive checked all the pink/black and B+ wires during cranking. they drop but quickly go back to 12.6v

Hmmmm

 

Ive decided since the ignition cylinder was wiggly, that i would replace the mechanic ignition parts including the gear rack and ign switch. there was a lot of metal shavings in the column.

i still have to finish putting it together and adjusting the rods with the ign switches. ill let ya know how it goes.

 

Maybe you didn't catch what I was trying to tell you? But yes, this seems to be why!

It won't be the key switch. It could be the electrical switch on bottom of column where the wires are attached. There is a long rod from mechanical key switch to the actual electrical switch.

 

Eagle mark is correct. If the engine cranks, the mechanical portion of the ign switch must be functioning correctly. If there are metal shavings from wear, then replacement is a good thing. The electrical portion of the switch is where there may be a problem. The contacts for the run position may be burned and dropping voltage. I suppose adjusting it slightly may have helped, so I see what Tuned performance was getting at. My point in my prior post was that if the ign switch is the problem, you would be able to see this in voltage tests comparing "crank" voltage at the ignition coil to "run" voltage at the ignition coil. Also, if you aren't absolutely sure, you may want to do the same test at the fuel pump power circuit from the FP relay. If you are really sure of the powers and grounds to the ECM, then focus on these other areas.

If this were an older chassis, that once had breaker point ignition, I woukld be suspecting that a ballast resistor, or as some OEMs liked to use in many later applications, a resistor wire, that got left in place. Since this vehicle was originally TBI, and would have had an HEI ignition, I wouldn't expect to have that issue, but what you're describing is the very same symptom.

 

If its the ign switch having bad points, i have a new one along with all the ign mechanical parts. still need to put it back together and adjust the switch and rods.

What is this resistor that ppl speak of? can you explain this to me?

What part of the coil do i test? the grey plug, pink wire?

Thanks

 

If this was a tbi witch I think you said it was tbi witch would not have a resister in the ignition circuit. The wire you need to look at is the pink wire on the grey connector in the run position.

 

Ok, i know what wire youre talking about.

when im testing the wire before, during, and after cranking, am i just checking for a solid 12.6 after cranking and before? does it matter the drop during cranking? i think down to 6-7v during i remember from older test. havent yet concentrated on the volts exactly after cranking.

thanks
Dean

 

Some volt drop during cranking is normal with the heavy load of the starter motor on the battery and cables. If it is too great, this will lead to problems also. However, you say your van runs as long as you keep the key in "start" this points away from a cranking voltage issue and more towards a drop or loss of voltage in the "run" position. Are you sure that the engine is actually running and not being rolled by the starter? If you are sure, then there has to be some power supply that is there in "start" and gone in "run".

 

Its definitely running and not turned by the starter. i have to do a half turn back on the ign to disengage the starter. then i hold it in between and itll run just fine. can rev it up and acts like its just a normal running motor. minus me holding the key in between start and run.

Based on this, you think its a volt drop in the run position? do you think its caused by the ign switch? or some other thing?

Thanks

 

Okay, now I get the whole story. If you mentioned the trickery with the IGN switch earlier in the thread, I missed it. It is definitely the ignition switch and adjusting it may help, but since you have to turn the key so far back to disengage the starter, I would go for replacing the rack and sector(the gears in the column), as you already mentioned doing. I suspect the switch has damaged contacts so replace it. That should solve your trouble. Be sure to verify proper adjustment of the switch by making sure of starter functions properly and that you have accessory power in ACC position.

 

Thanks. I am actually in the process of adjusting the ign switch. i replaced the rack and sector, grease it all up, smooth sliding with the rod. New ign cylinder and ign switch.

Still working on getting the high beam actuator rod in place with the flick switch at the column. little tricky.

Just a quick confirmation:
turn key backwards when off and acc come on.
Then, one click after off, nothing comes on
two clicks everything is on and in the run position
Then, to start, it cranks and starts, but back to run position, it dies.

Should the first click on make my acc come on?
Its normal to have the back turn for acc right? on the ign switch its spring loaded all the way to the left, and push it a little more and its spring loaded. i think thats the reverse click for acc.

Suggestions?
Thanks

 

ACC is all the way back from lock. If ACC and START are working, and it dies when the switch is released back to the RUN position, then there is still something missing in RUN.

One possibility is that the ECM is only functioning in CRANK mode and shutting down when CRANK power is taken away. This would point to a defect in the ECM, which would be uncommon. These ECMs are actually much more reliable than many give them credit for.

One thing that could contribute to this behavior is the EST circuit. The EST bypass allows the engine to start using a preset timing value in the ICM of the distributor. At 400 rpm, the ECM applies 5v to the bypass circuit and switches timing control over to the ECM. A few different things can cause this system not to work correctly. A short to ground in the EST bypass circuit might cause the engine to crank and try to run at crank speed but then die as soon an the ECM switches the EST on. Try running the engine with the EST bypass(timing connector) unplugged. This will place the system in bypass default timing mode where it will run on the built in timing map of the ICM and eliminate any fault in the ECM side, and the wiring, of the EST system. The timing connector is a single wire inline connector in a tan and black wire. On the 3rd gen F-body, this connector is just about 1ft away from the distributor in a break out from the harness. Look for it on your harness in that general area.