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Hello all I am new here as a proud owner of a clean and gently worn 174,000 miles 89 IROC with the L98. Best car have ever owned (13 years), even though my daily is a 2015 Chrysler 200S! (great car don't get me wrong)
I am here to get my gear head info'd up on a 406 TPI build that I am doing. I am going to check out all the related threads here that will help clarify some things for the build.
So far my production 400 block is at the machine shop and was checked solid.
KB forged 4.155" dish pistons and 5.7" clearanced rods are on the way. The heads need 64 cc chambers so the factory deck height will yield a 9.5 to 9.8 compression.
Heads are either going to be Trickflow's Super 23 195cc with steam holes or AFR 195 with steam holes.
My cam choice will be hydraulic flat tappet with 218 to 224 intake, 228 to 234 exhaust @ .050 with lift no higher than .500" and LSA 112 min.
My intake base will be extrude honed and I am planning to get a set of after market runners to port match with the plenum too. Anyone selling a set let me know.
Computer will be tuned and I will need some help on options here eventually.
I planned to keep my LT4 starter and so I REALLY lucked out when picking up the block with a 7 qt pan and THREE flexplates.
2 flexplates are the 168 tooth 400 style, and 1 (from what I thought) was the standard 153 tooth. However, come to find out it's a 153 tooth flexplate from an 86 camaro I believe, that had the same mounting pattern and 2 piece seal as the 400s, but of course it is not balanced for a 400. This will be done by my engine builder next week.
Anyway I will continue the thread build here when I start for sure. I would appreciate any input. Just be fair to understand that I am building a street car here so HP above 5500 RPMs is not important for me. I want a reliable everyday IROC that will hit the cruise nights nicely with a 406...with T tops off!
This is not a big deal but something about that block appeared weird to me.
I had to look through the folder of my old references; the casting no. 330817 should have three freeze plugs per side. The 400ci blocks with two plugs per side were the 509 castings.
I will say that my folder is full of 30 years old references, though.
Awesome! ...mine is also an 89, but bright red with beechwood interior. ....probably about the same mileage too. Good luck with everything, that 400 TPI should be awesome!!!!!!!
Well everybody for the first time in 26 years my IROC is operating without it's MAF and with an upgraded ECU unit. It went pretty well except for that the TPS voltage wire source was kind of hard to splice with the little wiring that was available, and no room to reach. I ended up using the coolant temp's 5v and she started up. Took a while but eventually she idled better and better. I can move her around in the driveway without stalling but I really need to read up on the tuning procedures.
I have to admit, I was overwhelmed.
Anyway, the 350 TPI tune is on its way to becoming the starter map for the 406 engine. This has been fun...so far.
Awesome! ...mine is also an 89, but bright red with beechwood interior. ....probably about the same mileage too. Good luck with everything, that 400 TPI should be awesome!!!!!!!
Welcome to the site. I'm planning on 406 build in the next few years to replace the 355 I built in 99. The one word of advice I would give to anyone building a motor is don't scrimp on machine work. Unless you're just building a toy to beat up and throw away, you want to know that the tolerances in the rotating assembly especially are right on.
Aftermarket parts, even when they come machined, can have wide variations. Only a good engine machinist can assure you of the tolerances that will make a motor last over the years. My 355 has had many trips to 7K and it still runs excellent with awesome oil pressure. It was balanced and blueprinted by one of the top engine shops in my area. My 406 will be built from better parts and machined by the same shop.
Tuning an ECM is a long process. I have an early ACCEL DFI system. The startup maps that came with it were for my 355 probably like the 350 maps are for your 406, close but no cigar. The cold start stuff is tricky since the engine's needs change fast as it warms up and you only get one chance each cold start to get the cold start cranking fuel right. I don't know how the EBL compares to DFI as far as the fueling maps go, if it's anything like DFI you want to start with you main base fuel map first since changes to that will affect everything else.
One thing I plan to do, the next time I make changes to the motor, is put the car on a dyno for the final tune. You want to be real familiar with the process and be fairly close on your maps since the dyno time is pricey and generally comes in 2 hour bits. I spent alot of time while tuning mine driving for a second, stopping and editing, driving some more. The full throttle stuff is scary on public roads with a car that gets up and moves. Plus, in my old age I've become more aware that alot of people don't appreciate some guy racing down the road. Another option would be test and tune nights at the drag strip.
Welcome to the site. I'm planning on 406 build in the next few years to replace the 355 I built in 99. The one word of advice I would give to anyone building a motor is don't scrimp on machine work. Unless you're just building a toy to beat up and throw away, you want to know that the tolerances in the rotating assembly especially are right on.
Aftermarket parts, even when they come machined, can have wide variations. Only a good engine machinist can assure you of the tolerances that will make a motor last over the years. My 355 has had many trips to 7K and it still runs excellent with awesome oil pressure. It was balanced and blueprinted by one of the top engine shops in my area. My 406 will be built from better parts and machined by the same shop.
My machinist is Rob from Northeast Machinery in East Hartford CT. He did the machine work on my Pontiac 400 in 2006 and my Ford 1.93 Turbo CVH engine in 2011. Both still run strong and smooth. I can honestly say Rob is good.
For my IROC's engine I am building for street level range, 600 - 5600 RPMS. I am tempted to get the FIRST TPI intake to maximize the RPM's potential. For now, I will stay with the stock system till money comes around for the FIRST. Easier to swap the top end after everything and with the EBL I can tune for the new intake.
Tuning an ECM is a long process. I have an early ACCEL DFI system. The startup maps that came with it were for my 355 probably like the 350 maps are for your 406, close but no cigar. The cold start stuff is tricky since the engine's needs change fast as it warms up and you only get one chance each cold start to get the cold start cranking fuel right. I don't know how the EBL compares to DFI as far as the fueling maps go, if it's anything like DFI you want to start with you main base fuel map first since changes to that will affect everything else.
One thing I plan to do, the next time I make changes to the motor, is put the car on a dyno for the final tune. You want to be real familiar with the process and be fairly close on your maps since the dyno time is pricey and generally comes in 2 hour bits. I spent alot of time while tuning mine driving for a second, stopping and editing, driving some more. The full throttle stuff is scary on public roads with a car that gets up and moves. Plus, in my old age I've become more aware that alot of people don't appreciate some guy racing down the road. Another option would be test and tune nights at the drag strip.
I am keeping an open mind haha This whole ordeal has been overwhelming so far. I was able to get back to where I left off. The car started again but like you said, i will need more time. Since I still have the original 02 sensor my wide open throttle tuning is limited. From what I read I will need to get myself a wide band to be more efficient. For now I will continue to work on my start up and warm up.
Sounds like you have a good engine guy. That to me is the key to the long happy life of an engine.
The First looks like a great system. I looked closely at it when considering options for mine. I have the ACCEL Superram base. I ported it to a little past 1.7 and matched it to the heads. I have the TPIS runners, which I understand are in fact the Arizona Street and Marine runners. They're 1.75 tube, 1.65 ID. On top is the factory plenum that I ported myself and a BBK 58mm TB. It all works well with the ported TFS G2 heads. Definitely a huge improvement over stock, just about 200hp worth I would guess.
I always liked high rpm power with a wide torque curve. Not exactly what TPI is known for. The high flow intake and heads, with TPIS's ZZX cam (240/240 @.050 .560/.560 112lsa, I know it's huge for TPI, but it really does work) makes power right up to 6,000. I shift it at 6,200, but I do realize that with the TPI, my torque curve drops off too quick above 5,600. TPIS's dyno test of the ZZX on a TPI 350 showed max power(408hp) at 5,950, max torque(451ftlbs) at 3,900(IIRC). I would say that's probably about right. I think I might have a little more, maybe 10hp, on the top end than their dyno example due to a few better pieces. It makes a bad**s combo, but still limited at the top end.
I'm going to switch to the Edelbrock Pro Flow XT manifold, hopefully before next summer. Too bad the timing wasn't better. My intake would have been perfect for you. Maybe I'll shelf it for who knows what down the road. Going to do the dual exhaust and fuel tank sump, that I should have done in the first place, before the intake. The ported G2 heads flow 270(my machinist thinks they'll do 280 with more work) and I think I can squeeze 460hp or so out of the little 355 with the XT's 2,500-7,000 power band. I hope to maximize the heads at 520hp or so from the 406, maybe can hit 540.
With better heads, if I decide to go that route down the road, the XT ported could maybe squeeze past 600HP from the 406, that's one reason I'm going as far as I am with the build, to be sure it can handle that level. Doubt I'll ever go there(my wife is already looking at me like she's sizing me up for a coffin anytime I mention working on the car), but it's nice to know I can.
At the strip last fall(it's first trip there since I've had it) this little beasty ruled among the street tire cars. Spanked all the 60s muscle cars, and stomped an 02 LS1 Vette by a bunch, twice in a row. Literally ran past him once I was hooked in second. That was a good test for the little TPI. I could have been in the upper mid 12s if I could have got some traction. The 2.2 second 60 ft times were a clear sign that I couldn't hook for snot, plus I can't drive for c**p. Once I have the intake done, I'll be swapping in a 9" Ford rear axle so I can run drag radials on the rare occasion that I do hit the strip. That will help some.
Then I'll start saving in earnest for the 406 that will most likely be the last engine I build for myself. I've had this beasty little car since 98 and built it from scratch, every nut and bolt in 99. Been tinkering with it here and there ever since. I'll never sell it. When I'm too old to enjoy it, it will go to my son.
I am keeping an open mind haha This whole ordeal has been overwhelming so far. I was able to get back to where I left off. The car started again but like you said, i will need more time. Since I still have the original 02 sensor my wide open throttle tuning is limited. From what I read I will need to get myself a wide band to be more efficient. For now I will continue to work on my start up and warm up.
After several years of guessing and reading plugs to figure out where I was, I finally did install a wide band AF meter. I used the same Innovative unit pictured above. Just installed it where the stock unit came out. For fuel map tuning, you want the system to be in open loop anyway so that you don't have the INT and BLM wrestling with you for fuel control. Once you're done with power tuning and close on your cruise fuel, you can go back to the narrow band and closed loop and use INT and BLM as a guide to get idle and part throttle fuel centered.
The wide band O2 made it easier to be sure where I was. My tendency is to go towards the rich side, so not to hurt the motor. The wide band helps get closer to the ideal 12.5:1 without risking too lean.
Too bad the timing wasn't better. My intake would have been perfect for you. Maybe I'll shelf it for who knows what down the road.
I haven't made any commitments to an intake yet so if you do decide to sell your top end setup I may be interested. We can talk about it then, for now my EBL is being used to tune my stock 350 so I can learn how to do it. Once I get better I will be confident using the bin for the freshly built 406.
The wide band O2 made it easier to be sure where I was. My tendency is to go towards the rich side, so not to hurt the motor. The wide band helps get closer to the ideal 12.5:1 without risking too lean
I guess I should use my innovate wideband O2? I had a real hard time trying to remove my stock O2 sensor ( while manifold's on the car ) , never got it out. Does this mean my stock O2 sensor should not be used for base mapping (start up and warm up)? Any suggestions on making the most from base mapping with a stock O2? Like don't go into WOT mode or stay below 3000 RPMS?
One question I have is that the disk that came with the EBL ECU contains numerous bins and many of them are MPFI TPI 8. I can't tell what differences each one has that I have used...is there suppose to be a noticeable difference? If so, where should I see it?
Thew stock O2 sensor has a few limitations that make it a marginal tuning aid. One, it doesn't operate when the engine is first started. If it were a heated O2 sensor(3 wire), it could be preheated by leaving the key on for a few minutes before starting the engine, still it isn't expected to read accurately on start up. Second, the stock O2 sensor is narrow band, mneaning that it only reads from 14:1-15:1 AFR. With stoich being 14.7:1 the engineers didn't see the need for monitoring AFR outside that band. Start up and warm up fuel, along high load fuel beyond about 50% load value, will be outside the narrow band sensor's range.
Cold start and warm up fueling is more a matter of trial and error. See how the engine starts on a cold morning. If it starts and stalls, is it too rich or too lean, look for soot in the exhaust as a clue. Remember, the engine can tolerate rich AFR much better than lean AFR, especially on a cold start. So if the engine struggles to start or starts and stalls or runs poorly after start, it's more likely too lean than too rich. Once the engine starts moving out of warm up enrichment, you can use the wideband to see where you are from there. It will be somewhat rich until it reaches full operating temp. You want around 14-15:1 at cruise, 12.5:1 at full load. It's not uncommon for the stock O2 sensor to be very difficult to remove. Especially if it's never been replaced after 26 years. You may need heat, like an oxy/acetelene torch to heat it up enough to break loose. Best to remove the manifold for this. There are some trick tools, like an O2 socket that works with an air hammer to shock the sensor loose. This still doesn't work sometimes. I have had to replace manifolds because of an O2 sensor that wouldn't come out. Headers are easier since we can just cut the bung out and weld a new one in. A word to the wise, the O2 sensor, once you're done tuning and the system is operating closed loop, is so critical to correct operation of the system, if the sensor is so stuck that it won't come out, that's a good sign that it should be replaced, even if it's a PITA.
As far as the wideband sensor goes, You can have another bung welded in downstream of the manifolds. The wideband is a heated sensor so it can be pretty much anywhere in the exhaust stream.
For specific help with the EBL, I would recommend you look up RBob over on the DIY PROM forum.
Thew stock O2 sensor has a few limitations that make it a marginal tuning aid. One, it doesn't operate when the engine is first started. If it were a heated O2 sensor(3 wire), it could be preheated by leaving the key on for a few minutes before starting the engine, still it isn't expected to read accurately on start up. Second, the stock O2 sensor is narrow band, mneaning that it only reads from 14:1-15:1 AFR. With stoich being 14.7:1 the engineers didn't see the need for monitoring AFR outside that band. Start up and warm up fuel, along high load fuel beyond about 50% load value, will be outside the narrow band sensor's range.
Cold start and warm up fueling is more a matter of trial and error. See how the engine starts on a cold morning. If it starts and stalls, is it too rich or too lean, look for soot in the exhaust as a clue. Remember, the engine can tolerate rich AFR much better than lean AFR, especially on a cold start. So if the engine struggles to start or starts and stalls or runs poorly after start, it's more likely too lean than too rich. Once the engine starts moving out of warm up enrichment, you can use the wideband to see where you are from there. It will be somewhat rich until it reaches full operating temp. You want around 14-15:1 at cruise, 12.5:1 at full load. It's not uncommon for the stock O2 sensor to be very difficult to remove. Especially if it's never been replaced after 26 years. You may need heat, like an oxy/acetelene torch to heat it up enough to break loose. Best to remove the manifold for this. There are some trick tools, like an O2 socket that works with an air hammer to shock the sensor loose. This still doesn't work sometimes. I have had to replace manifolds because of an O2 sensor that wouldn't come out. Headers are easier since we can just cut the bung out and weld a new one in. A word to the wise, the O2 sensor, once you're done tuning and the system is operating closed loop, is so critical to correct operation of the system, if the sensor is so stuck that it won't come out, that's a good sign that it should be replaced, even if it's a PITA.
As far as the wideband sensor goes, You can have another bung welded in downstream of the manifolds. The wideband is a heated sensor so it can be pretty much anywhere in the exhaust stream.
For specific help with the EBL, I would recommend you look up RBob over on the DIY PROM forum.
Thank you! That was very informative and I appreciate your time. I will definitely get working on that stock O2. Since I am tuning and have a daily to drive instead I minds well do it. Wish me luck.
I took the 5 volt reference for the MAP from the coolant temp sensor because the TPS has limited wires. RBob said that this was a NO NO because the ECU uses a pull up resistor for the CTS. So I removed the wire from the CTS and after some time, got it spliced into the TPS, the car started up fine. Now, the engine starts up well but when the engine warms up it stalls and won't start up till it cools off.
I think there are some calibration settings that need to be done but I am not sure where in EBL to do this. The BIN I am using is correct for my engine, tranny, and stock form. 3005 is the character that I remember for 5.7 TPI auto. Are calibrations done in the EBL WUD Utillity or in Tuner Pro? I can't do VE learns because the car stalls on me when the engine warms up.
The IROC is finally starting! Warming! AND Driving! well on EBL Flash. Took it for a ride yesterday to put fresh gas in and sure enough the drive was great. Did 3 VE learns and the car ran better each time. The exhaust smells so fresh too! haha
Even during this cold Late October day did she start effortlessly, better than stock. I am very happy with it. Will post some clips soon.
05-04-2015, 05:59 PM
My machinist is Rob from Northeast Machinery in East Hartford CT. He did the machine work on my Pontiac 400 in 2006 and my Ford 1.93 Turbo CVH engine in 2011. Both still run strong and smooth. I can honestly say Rob is good. 
