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Re: 86 TPI Starts and Stalls, have read every thread on here
Ok.
I took a look at the .adx file I got from the vendor who supplied my ALDL cable and it is named as an 85-88 lb9 and l98 file. Since I know the file cannot be the same for an 85 (different ecm) and I have found info here and on gearhead-efi that the 86 and 87-88 use different .ads files I am pretty sure this is part of the problem with the values.
Re: 86 TPI Starts and Stalls, have read every thread on here
Originally Posted by 2012sergen11
So I was able to get a short log of the car while it started and stalled. Connecting the cable and setup was MUCH easier than I figured thanks to your guys' help and the help of the vendor where I purchased the cable (linked above).
Here is a snip of the data at the end of the log...
The only things that jumped out at me were the -40 MAT (Manifold Air Temp?) numbers and that the 2 coolant temps did not match.
I am not sure on the other numbers in the log and I am hoping you can point me in the right direction.
In the first log the MAT read -40 so I unplugged the sensor under the intake plenum which I believe is the correct onee and it still read -40 on the second log (pic above)
Just at a curiosity, how did you get that software and how did you hook it up to the obd1?
Re: 86 TPI Starts and Stalls, have read every thread on here
Originally Posted by brianlibby791
Just at a curiosity, how did you get that software and how did you hook it up to the obd1?
I purchased one of the aldl to USB cables linked earlier in the thread. The vendor explained the setup of the cable with a pdf they provided. Between the pdf and the guys in here, general disorder, tuned performance, and some others it was actually pretty straightforward.
Re: 86 TPI Starts and Stalls, have read every thread on here
I thought the MAF system IAT was only used for EGR?
I was looking at the $6E hac and thought I had found where it was used for something else but then I looked again last night briefly and didn't see it. But it was briefly.....
Re: 86 TPI Starts and Stalls, have read every thread on here
Originally Posted by GeneralDisorder
I thought the MAF system IAT was only used for EGR?
I was looking at the $6E hac and thought I had found where it was used for something else but then I looked again last night briefly and didn't see it. But it was briefly.....
GD
I use to think the same thing until I programmed out the egr for a customer and he left the iat out. According to him it ran rich.
Re: 86 TPI Starts and Stalls, have read every thread on here
have you replaced the ignition switch? I am thinking of replacing mine. My car runs great but once in a while shuts off out of nowhere (usually starting right back up almost immediately) as I drive down the road. The ignition switch seems like a likely suspect.
You've already gone down a complicated road but sometimes best to start simple. But now you are already on your way with the needed equipment to datalog and perhaps tune and burn chips. The path I want to be on myself, very soon!
Re: 86 TPI Starts and Stalls, have read every thread on here
Is there anyway to change the sample rate in the program? At the bottom of my screen it is running at 0.7 Hz and I only get one frame of the car running before it stalls
Re: 86 TPI Starts and Stalls, have read every thread on here
It's not a setting, per-se. The ADX file determines the sampling rate and communication protocol. You can "edit" the acquisition file and you will see the com protocol settings - baud rate, etc.
You need to get the proper $32 ADX and then it should just work on it's own. The protocol will connect once you jump in the 10k resistor. Get it connected and logging with KOEO and then start cranking.
Re: 86 TPI Starts and Stalls, have read every thread on here
Originally Posted by Vanilla Ice
If the car starts and dies, it's probably not in the startup routines. It's the running routines.
Have you tuned the car recently or changed your ecu for anything?
No tuning on the car, stock memcal AUM code. Stock ecm that was in the car when I got it. Swapped with different ecm and memcal from a running car as a test with no change
Re: 86 TPI Starts and Stalls, have read every thread on here
Unfortunately i cannot say for sure. The injectors were replaced before i purchased the car. The previous owber said he had been driving it after and parked it due to needing an alternator and never got back to it prior to his divorce (reason for selling).
Unfortunately I don't know for sure that it ran after the injectors were replaced.
Re: 86 TPI Starts and Stalls, have read every thread on here
I can get a pic and verify the number later but I'm almost positive the number is 01D062B, I looked them up to make sure they were the 19 lb ones when I first started working on the car.
Re: 86 TPI Starts and Stalls, have read every thread on here
Originally Posted by 2012sergen11
No tuning on the car, stock memcal AUM code. Stock ecm that was in the car when I got it. Swapped with different ecm and memcal from a running car as a test with no change
Good info, may have to replace the memcal to avoid those. When I ran the car on my 87 memcal with g1 adapter for 89 mask it didn't correct my problem unfortunately but I'll definitely look into the memcal in the future
Re: 86 TPI Starts and Stalls, have read every thread on here
Originally Posted by 2012sergen11
Good info, may have to replace the memcal to avoid those. When I ran the car on my 87 memcal with g1 adapter for 89 mask it didn't correct my problem unfortunately but I'll definitely look into the memcal in the future
Best thing to do is get an 89 PROM with the modifications for VATS delete, and fan n/o control, fan temp set points, 9th injector delete, EGR delete, etc. That will avoid the problem entirely.
Since you swapped over to a whole different computer for testing and it does the same thing I think we can rule out tuning issues for now.
Re: 86 TPI Starts and Stalls, have read every thread on here
Originally Posted by GeneralDisorder
Best thing to do is get an 89 PROM with the modifications for VATS delete, and fan n/o control, fan temp set points, 9th injector delete, EGR delete, etc. That will avoid the problem entirely.
Since you swapped over to a whole different computer for testing and it does the same thing I think we can rule out tuning issues for now.
GD
Hopefully later I can get a new log with the new definition file later and see something suspect there. If not I have no idea where to go before starting to change out parts
Re: 86 TPI Starts and Stalls, have read every thread on here
I ran a new log with the $32.ads file in the link I provided earlier. I ran a log of the car starting and stalling like normal.
the output is the same look as before so maybe there was not a difference in the definition files.
I also ran a log letting the car run on starting fluid for a short time. If anyone is interested I can email the log. When the car was "running" the injector BPW stayed relatively steady but when the car began to stall the BPW went up a lot.
Re: 86 TPI Starts and Stalls, have read every thread on here
That seems like quite a few knock counts. I usually log a few on startup but it's like maybe 4 or 5 usually.
The data isn't being displayed correctly or the data is wrong.... That airflow number isn't in grams per second. It may be raw sensor data. I'll take a look at the formula being used in the $6E def and post it for you. You can change this in the acquisition editor interface.
Re: 86 TPI Starts and Stalls, have read every thread on here
Originally Posted by GeneralDisorder
That seems like quite a few knock counts. I usually log a few on startup but it's like maybe 4 or 5 usually.
The data isn't being displayed correctly or the data is wrong.... That airflow number isn't in grams per second. It may be raw sensor data. I'll take a look at the formula being used in the $6E def and post it for you. You can change this in the acquisition editor interface.
GD
The formula would be great, i am not sure why the airflow is being measured that way
would the knock counts being so high cause enough timing retard to stall?
Re: 86 TPI Starts and Stalls, have read every thread on here
I wondered about the timing thing. Mine seems to struggle at times when cold and now that I'm talking about this with you I'm wondering if those few initial knock counts are creating a situation where it's unable to get any timing.... although you should still have 6 degrees of base timing for it to run with.
I checked my log and my timing is at 0.70 degrees relative to reference pulse which would be 6.70 degrees. It slowly ramps back in about 2 seconds after initial start.
You could try twisting in about 20 degrees of timing and unplugging the ESC connector so it can't pull your timing....
Re: 86 TPI Starts and Stalls, have read every thread on here
Thanks, I will look into it this evening and try to put in the formulas so that the data looks cleaner and is easier to interpret.
Do you know if the IAC motor position being 145 all the time is fully open or closed? I'm pretty sure that hasn't changed throughout the different logs I have run
Re: 86 TPI Starts and Stalls, have read every thread on here
145 is the startup position. There is a couple tables that deal with the IAC position and the decay vs. coolant temp, etc. Once it enters closed loop it actually targets an RPM.... But yeah the 145 is normal.
Re: 86 TPI Starts and Stalls, have read every thread on here
I think the problem is that no one really spent much time developing the $32 definitions. That data is probably there but due to lack of interest in the community it hasn't been hacked out of the data stream. Since most people either upgrade to $32B or $6E it isn't an issue.
Why don't you try using that $6E ECM from your other car and logging that?
Or send Tuned Performance a PM and he can set you up with a chip.
Re: 86 TPI Starts and Stalls, have read every thread on here
Originally Posted by GeneralDisorder
I think the problem is that no one really spent much time developing the $32 definitions. That data is probably there but due to lack of interest in the community it hasn't been hacked out of the data stream. Since most people either upgrade to $32B or $6E it isn't an issue.
Why don't you try using that $6E ECM from your other car and logging that?
Or send Tuned Performance a PM and he can set you up with a chip.
GD
Reading my mind...
After seeing all the data in your log I was thinking of swapping the prom over to the $6E one I have.
Re: 86 TPI Starts and Stalls, have read every thread on here
$6e will be a plug and play, unless the fan setting is switched in that case the fans would run all the time.im not sure all the differences from $32-32b are I just prefer working with $6e.
06-21-2017, 09:35 AM
cl the iac steps are in the 20-25 range.