When you click on links to various merchants on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network.
86 TPI Starts and Stalls, have read every thread on here
I feel like I have read every thread on the forum for the "starts and dies" symptoms.
So far I have narrowed my issue down to a fuel supply. The car cranks and starts but stalls out within a second or two. If i feather starting fluid it will continue to run.
I have tried the following from reading everyone elses issues:
1. Ohm'ed injectors, all were replaced before I got the car and ohm out at 17.1 to 17.4
2. Checked fuses in the fuse panel, have power on both sides of fuse with key on
3. Checked power to injectors with key on, power on both wires.
4. Checked for spark at a plug even though it runs on starting fluid, have spark
5. Used a Noid light on each injector and they pulse when engine is starting up until it stalls out
6. With starting fluid I I used the noid light to verify the injectors were still pulsing above 300 RPM based on info in other threads
7. Been checking other odd and end connections.
8. have 40 psi with key on at the rail, when starting goes close to 50 psi
9. fuel pressure also remains at 40 psi ish when running on starting fluid
This leads me to where I crawled under the car to see if the fuel filter looked like it had been replaced recently, and found a solid line where it should be
Currently I am considering that the injectors may be clogged up due to the filter being gone.
Would clogged injectors still let the car start up or am I chasing my tail in the wrong direction?
Re: 86 TPI Starts and Stalls, have read every thread on here
Yes because 86 has a separate cold start injector (injector #9).
Sounds like you need a set of injectors. While you're at it, get yourself a PROM with the $6E 1989 programming and a cold start injector block off plate.
Re: 86 TPI Starts and Stalls, have read every thread on here
No I did not, since the car will not run on its own and I don't want to run it on ether that long. I actually emailed into Southbay earlier today inquiring about injectors lol
Re: 86 TPI Starts and Stalls, have read every thread on here
Yes get a set of injectors from South Bay and contact member TunedPerformance for a $6E PROM chip. Since you can't get the cold start injectors anymore go on eBay and get a ninth injector block off kit (and EGR if you are so inclined) and you'll be set. The $6E programming didn't require the ninth injector so that will be the best way forward to get it running right.
Re: 86 TPI Starts and Stalls, have read every thread on here
Or, do as I did and run a highly modified ARAP along WITH the cold start injector (on the '86 TPI). Starts just fine any time. If the cold start ever dies, it will be a good plug for the opening and the cold crank enrichment can be ramped up.
In other words, there is no need to remove the injector if it is working. Your service injectors, on the other hand, could easily have plugged inlet screens. Have them cleaned and flow-matched or replace them.
Re: 86 TPI Starts and Stalls, have read every thread on here
Used injectors are evil.
I just finished battling a set of lightly used 5 yr old ones. Not sure the make but not Bosch.
Cold they ohmed ok. Cooked in the oven for a couple hours at 200 they ohmed ok.
Rigged up a system to spray cleaner thru each and watch the on/off and pattern. Some randomly hot or cold would not spray.
Finally got them all spraying hot and cold multiple times. Reassembled the fuel rail and just before putting the rail back on the manifold I said WTH let me check one more time. Two of the injectors would not stop spraying and would have drained the gas tank into the cylinders.
Now these all did have E10 running through them before and sat for almost 2 yrs but man did they all behave erratically.
Re: 86 TPI Starts and Stalls, have read every thread on here
So a small update, found the fuel line that had been replaced DOES have a filter farther up on the car.
Tested a couple injectors by using a hot and ground and lightly tapping the ground on the injector while holding hot on the opposite pin to pulse them. The fuel pressure gauge read a drop each time on the ones we tried. This should mean that they are indeed firing fuel and not completely clogged right?
Re: 86 TPI Starts and Stalls, have read every thread on here
Are there any electrical components in the dizzy that could be causing me a problem even though it runs on starting fluid and has an ecm signal to fire the injectors?
Trying to figure out what the h*'ll is causing this issue still and would appreciate any info
Re: 86 TPI Starts and Stalls, have read every thread on here
Have you established communication with the ECM and checked injector pulse width, MAF sensor grams per second, etc? It could be a bad PROM or ECM also. These ECM's are known for circuit board cracks and this is typical of the behavior you can expect from them when bad.
Re: 86 TPI Starts and Stalls, have read every thread on here
Unfortunately I have not, i do not have the equipment to datalog yet. What would I be able to see from the datalog that the above tests won't be able to show?
(Not meant to sound like a "smart" remark, I'm just not too knowledgeable on the datalogging yet)
Re: 86 TPI Starts and Stalls, have read every thread on here
Originally Posted by GeneralDisorder
It could be a bad PROM or ECM also. These ECM's are known for circuit board cracks and this is typical of the behavior you can expect from them when bad.
GD
I do however change the ecm with another 165 one I had and it did not solve the issue
Re: 86 TPI Starts and Stalls, have read every thread on here
You can look at things like the mass airflow grams per second, injector pulse width, and coolant temperature. The engine starts up on open-loop and doesn't really have any information other than MAF, and CTS. It will base it's fuel calculations on this data.
My guess, based on all the information so far, is possibly a bad MAF. Try unplugging it and starting the engine that way. With the initial setting of the IAC on startup, the MAF should be in the neighborhood of 15 g/sec, and slowely drop to about 5-7 when warm. If you unplug it, the ECM will substitute limp mode values for the fuel calculation.
It's easy to try - also should thow a code so you can then check if it will output codes, etc.
Re: 86 TPI Starts and Stalls, have read every thread on here
Originally Posted by GeneralDisorder
My guess, based on all the information so far, is possibly a bad MAF. Try unplugging it and starting the engine that way. With the initial setting of the IAC on startup, the MAF should be in the neighborhood of 15 g/sec, and slowely drop to about 5-7 when warm. If you unplug it, the ECM will substitute limp mode values for the fuel calculation.
It's easy to try - also should thow a code so you can then check if it will output codes, etc.
GD
I did try unplugging the MAFand starting the engine but it had same problem
I was under the impression that because the engine starts when cold but then stalls out that the 9th injector was working but I could definitely be wrong. Does the cold start injector continue to fire even after the engine starts?
Re: 86 TPI Starts and Stalls, have read every thread on here
The ninth injector only gets power during cranking. It runs until the timer switch opens. The switch is a temp based or a circuit breaker switch. So I think your correct.
Last edited by Tuned Performance; 06-10-2017 at 01:01 PM.
Re: 86 TPI Starts and Stalls, have read every thread on here
I bought my 89 bout a month ago have had same issue. Starts and stalls right off then start again and take it for a drive and boom just dies almost like the ignition has shut off lose all steering etc.
Replaced usual stuff when I first bought it. Plugs wires distributor. Still stalling... take it to 2 mechanics and of course it never does it...sigh.
Re: 86 TPI Starts and Stalls, have read every thread on here
My 86 trans am had a very similar issue, I spent loads of money in brand new parts to try and fix it. finally gave up on it and pulled the 305 out since I've always wanted a 383 in it. I have brand new 19lb southbay injectors that have only started the car around 20 times and a bunch of other new parts for sale if you're interested
Re: 86 TPI Starts and Stalls, have read every thread on here
Originally Posted by TylerSteez
My 86 trans am had a very similar issue, I spent loads of money in brand new parts to try and fix it. finally gave up on it and pulled the 305 out since I've always wanted a 383 in it. I have brand new 19lb southbay injectors that have only started the car around 20 times and a bunch of other new parts for sale if you're interested
I'd be interested to see what you have if you could pm about what you have unless you have a thread started. Definitely looking to keep the car as stock as possible since it has power recaros
Re: 86 TPI Starts and Stalls, have read every thread on here
Originally Posted by 2012sergen11
I'd be interested to see what you have if you could pm about what you have unless you have a thread started. Definitely looking to keep the car as stock as possible since it has power recaros
Mine has the 5.7 in it. Not gonna throw anything else at her until i get it figured out. I believe it is a wiring issue. But i will know soon enough.
Re: 86 TPI Starts and Stalls, have read every thread on here
Quick Update, waiting to get ALDL able in case I cannot get anywhere with what I can still try. Got a better fuel pressure gauge and was seeing the pressure drop from 40 to 20 PSI real fast (5 secs or less) after the key is off and pump had primed.
Clamping the return line PARTIALLY closed to hold higher fuel pressure actually got the car to run a bit but rough. I pulled the plenum and replaced the FPR tonight and now I am holding 40 PSI constant and dropping ~5 PSI over the course of 5 or so minutes. Figured I had found the problem...wrong!!
Planning to swap ECM out of my 87 that I know runs and go from there. The 87 is setup to run a 350 TPI w/ cold start delete (89 mask). I am hoping that if the car runs (poorly with the 350 tune but should run right?) I can narrow to an ECM problem or Cold Start system problem and then test the ecm with the original 305 chip to determine which of the 2 it would be
Re: 86 TPI Starts and Stalls, have read every thread on here
I had problem where it started ok....then it would die soon after many years ago...looked at many things and when i replaced MAF burnoff relay, the problem went away for good! Good luck and hope this helps.
Re: 86 TPI Starts and Stalls, have read every thread on here
The burn off relay heats up the MAF element glowing red hot for a short time (ECM control) to burn contaminants off the sensor.
The burn off relay itself should not cause a start/stall condition. It is activated only after the engine is shut down for about 2 seconds. I would have to look at the code to see if it's operated only after entering closed loop.... Not sure. I know 89 code will set a code 36 for burnoff function failure only after it logs 6 burnoff "failures" in a row.
Re: 86 TPI Starts and Stalls, have read every thread on here
https://m.facebook.com/story.php?sto...56&__tn__=%2As
I think you mentioned you don't have a memcal for the ninth injector. In that case you will need a $6e adx
You can see data in the item list and dash . The dash can be easily customized.
Re: 86 TPI Starts and Stalls, have read every thread on here
Originally Posted by 2012sergen11
Okay thanks, once the cable is connected and COM set does the program auto connect once plugged into the ecm via the ALDL?
Is there a specific place in Tuner Pro to go for the sensor readings and info
If it's a USB cable then you will have to install the appropriate drivers, and then TunerPro should detect it I think. You may have to go into the settings and tell it what you are using and which com port, etc.
The ALDL side you just connect. Once you have TunerPro setup you start the acquisition and it will perform the handshake to begin transferring data. Did you cable come with a 10k Ohm resistor jumper or switch, etc? You will need that to get the 7165 ECM to communicate at 8192 baud. You jumper in the 10k resistor, and then once it starts communicating, you pull it back out of the circuit.
Re: 86 TPI Starts and Stalls, have read every thread on here
So I was able to get a short log of the car while it started and stalled. Connecting the cable and setup was MUCH easier than I figured thanks to your guys' help and the help of the vendor where I purchased the cable (linked above).
Here is a snip of the data at the end of the log...
The only things that jumped out at me were the -40 MAT (Manifold Air Temp?) numbers and that the 2 coolant temps did not match.
I am not sure on the other numbers in the log and I am hoping you can point me in the right direction.
In the first log the MAT read -40 so I unplugged the sensor under the intake plenum which I believe is the correct onee and it still read -40 on the second log (pic above)
Re: 86 TPI Starts and Stalls, have read every thread on here
Originally Posted by Tuned Performance
https://m.facebook.com/story.php?sto...56&__tn__=%2As
I think you mentioned you don't have a memcal for the ninth injector. In that case you will need a $6e adx
You can see data in the item list and dash . The dash can be easily customized.
Great Link and definitely helped with the final setup
I am using the 86 memcal right now but glad to know if I switch to the 89 memcal I have (with adaptor) I need to change the adx, saved me a possible headache later
Re: 86 TPI Starts and Stalls, have read every thread on here
Is it running in 8192 mode? You have to switch in the 10k resistor momentarily for it to start 8192 communication.
The load variable being at 209 doesn't look right to me - a typical idle load value is around 50 when warm. A bit higher when cold I'm sure but probably still less than 100.... And the BLM should be locked to 128 in closed loop. It almost seems like your definition file may not be right. Those numbers don't make sense and don't seem to jive with the sensor data they derive from.
Re: 86 TPI Starts and Stalls, have read every thread on here
Hmmm... i got the .adx file from the manufacturer of the cable but I will look at it again. I have the switch for the 10k on when I am logging, should I be turning it back off once the program is connected?
Re: 86 TPI Starts and Stalls, have read every thread on here
I don't think it matters if you disconnect it. It might cause it to be in a test mode where timing is modified and it will force some knock events, etc. It's not critical I have used it both ways.
Could it be a $32b PROM? Maybe someone swapped the computer?
Re: 86 TPI Starts and Stalls, have read every thread on here
I will have to double check the code on the Memcal tomorrow. I am only finding an .ads file on the gearhead link above, will that work in Tunerpro RT or does it need to be an .adx file?
If I upload the .ads file from gearhead will the log update or change to the new defintion or do I need to log the data again?
Re: 86 TPI Starts and Stalls, have read every thread on here
Okay I will try and run a new log and see if the info is any different.
Where does the ecm get 2 coolant temp readings from? I was under the impression it only got one temp from the front of the intake. Also with these numbers being different could this factor contribute to my problem?
I have been reading trying to find avg baseline values to compare to, if anyone has a good link/ source for the info id really appreciate it.
06-06-2017, 08:43 PM
you would want to look at cts and tps, you can check tps voltage and cts ohms but it's easier to just see the data with tunerpro rt. 
