Will this flywheel work with T56 2PC seal block swap?
08-03-2006, 12:36 PM
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Will this flywheel work with T56 2PC seal block swap?
Looking to put a T56 behind my 406, And refuse to pay $400 dollars for a flywheel... That is rediculous! and heavy!
I found these on ebay, he advertises they are used with T56 swaps on early blocks.. When I emailed him to be sure, I asked does he make a 153 tooth FW to fit 11" clutch..
He replied that no 153 FW's accept an 11" clutch...
I then told him the LT1s use an 11" clutch with 153 tooth FW.
He then said he does not have it then - But also told me he has sold these to many doing the swap....
Is there a way to know? has anyone used this one?
I have searched alot, but can't seem to find out.
Also have been an Auto guy for years and don't really play with gear bangers much, as racing an auto is easier to be effecient.
But I am sick of putting transmissions in my 10 second 87and don't really want to run a 3 speed as the car is used alot on street. Also recently built
a BBC for my 82 Camaro and don't need (2) race cars.
So the 87 will be leisure / race / play.
Any help is really appreciated.
Here is the flywheel:
eBay Motors: New Steel 22lbs Flywheel Chevy Early External balance (item 190015845212 end time Aug-08-06 20:08:55 PDT)
Anyone I can call and ask about measurements or such to find out if this works?
I found these on ebay, he advertises they are used with T56 swaps on early blocks.. When I emailed him to be sure, I asked does he make a 153 tooth FW to fit 11" clutch..
He replied that no 153 FW's accept an 11" clutch...
I then told him the LT1s use an 11" clutch with 153 tooth FW.
He then said he does not have it then - But also told me he has sold these to many doing the swap....
Is there a way to know? has anyone used this one?
I have searched alot, but can't seem to find out.
Also have been an Auto guy for years and don't really play with gear bangers much, as racing an auto is easier to be effecient.
But I am sick of putting transmissions in my 10 second 87and don't really want to run a 3 speed as the car is used alot on street. Also recently built
a BBC for my 82 Camaro and don't need (2) race cars.
So the 87 will be leisure / race / play.
Any help is really appreciated.
Here is the flywheel:
eBay Motors: New Steel 22lbs Flywheel Chevy Early External balance (item 190015845212 end time Aug-08-06 20:08:55 PDT)
Anyone I can call and ask about measurements or such to find out if this works?
Last edited by 87_TA; 08-03-2006 at 12:42 PM.
08-03-2006, 12:47 PM
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Car: 88 IROC-Z
Engine: fully built 383 stroker
Transmission: Tremec TKO-600
for your application...im not sure. but thats the flywheel i use on my tko for my 383 so i dont know how much different it would be compared to the t56. i would imagine it would work though. 
yes you can call fortes or jam performance
they know what they are talking about if not there is a corvette shop out here in cali that will know what you need
if you need the numbers let me know
yes you can call fortes or jam performance
they know what they are talking about if not there is a corvette shop out here in cali that will know what you need
if you need the numbers let me know
08-03-2006, 08:43 PM
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I then told him the LT1s use an 11" clutch with 153 tooth FW
Look at the flywheel sometime, and then look at the size that the clutch has to be to fit on it, and then look at the size that the disc has to be to fit inside of that. I don't think it's even possible to jam an 11" disc onto a 12.8" flywheel. Not that it's really worth arguing about what the disc diameter is in this case, there are other issues with the stock T-56 setup, and the disc diameter wouldn't prevent it from working anyway.In order to use that flywheel with a T-56, you have to use an aftermarket hydraulic throwout bearing such as the Weir one, like it says in the ad. It's not a T-56 fluwheel. Therefore the stock T-56 stuff won't work with it.
Which way would cost less or work better, between using that setup or using the stock LT1 clutch and all the stock stuff, I don't know.
08-08-2006, 01:44 PM
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Originally Posted by sofakingdom
Well, that's news to me too.... The T-56 setup in my car uses a 10.4" disc on its 12.8" 153-tooth flywheel. Look at the flywheel sometime, and then look at the size that the clutch has to be to fit on it, and then look at the size that the disc has to be to fit inside of that. I don't think it's even possible to jam an 11" disc onto a 12.8" flywheel. Not that it's really worth arguing about what the disc diameter is in this case, there are other issues with the stock T-56 setup, and the disc diameter wouldn't prevent it from working anyway.
In order to use that flywheel with a T-56, you have to use an aftermarket hydraulic throwout bearing such as the Weir one, like it says in the ad. It's not a T-56 fluwheel. Therefore the stock T-56 stuff won't work with it.
Which way would cost less or work better, between using that setup or using the stock LT1 clutch and all the stock stuff, I don't know.
Look at the flywheel sometime, and then look at the size that the clutch has to be to fit on it, and then look at the size that the disc has to be to fit inside of that. I don't think it's even possible to jam an 11" disc onto a 12.8" flywheel. Not that it's really worth arguing about what the disc diameter is in this case, there are other issues with the stock T-56 setup, and the disc diameter wouldn't prevent it from working anyway.In order to use that flywheel with a T-56, you have to use an aftermarket hydraulic throwout bearing such as the Weir one, like it says in the ad. It's not a T-56 fluwheel. Therefore the stock T-56 stuff won't work with it.
Which way would cost less or work better, between using that setup or using the stock LT1 clutch and all the stock stuff, I don't know.
Thanks guys for info,
I have researched alot and can only find the three flywheels everybody commonly uses, all (3) specify for 11" diameter clutch. Compared to all other that specify 10.4-10.5..
The best deal I can seem to find is the Mcleod for $275.00 - that really sux for a flywheel, but guess I am without option.
Anyone know of any good clutch deals? 500-600 also seems rather pricey for a spec 3 - I need something to hold 600+ hp though.
08-08-2006, 02:34 PM
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Car: Yes
Engine: Usually
Transmission: Sometimes
Axle/Gears: Behind me somewhere
T-56 flywheels fit a 10.4" clutch. Like I said, you need to do more LOOKING at the parts, and you'll immediately see why it's not possible for an 11" disc to fit inside of a clutch that will fit on a 12.8" flywheel. I have no clue where this 11" business for LT1 clutches is coming from.
The most common flywheel for that swap is the Centerforce 700107. The stock T-56 clutch fits it. That happens to be the one I've got. Not that it matters what the disc diameter is; it's simply the STOCK LT1 part. You buy the LT1 clutch, and it doesn't pick up a tape measure and measure itself, it just fits.
There are numerous clutches you could buy. I happen to have the Centerforce Dual Friction on mine, can't recall the part # offhand.
Forget researching by the disc diameter. All you'll end up with, is confusion (where you already are right now). Just look for flywheels that work with the LT1 T-56, except for 2-piece rear main seal.
The most common flywheel for that swap is the Centerforce 700107. The stock T-56 clutch fits it. That happens to be the one I've got. Not that it matters what the disc diameter is; it's simply the STOCK LT1 part. You buy the LT1 clutch, and it doesn't pick up a tape measure and measure itself, it just fits.
There are numerous clutches you could buy. I happen to have the Centerforce Dual Friction on mine, can't recall the part # offhand.
Forget researching by the disc diameter. All you'll end up with, is confusion (where you already are right now). Just look for flywheels that work with the LT1 T-56, except for 2-piece rear main seal.
08-08-2006, 03:37 PM
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Originally Posted by sofakingdom
T-56 flywheels fit a 10.4" clutch. Like I said, you need to do more LOOKING at the parts, and you'll immediately see why it's not possible for an 11" disc to fit inside of a clutch that will fit on a 12.8" flywheel. I have no clue where this 11" business for LT1 clutches is coming from.
The most common flywheel for that swap is the Centerforce 700107. The stock T-56 clutch fits it. That happens to be the one I've got. Not that it matters what the disc diameter is; it's simply the STOCK LT1 part. You buy the LT1 clutch, and it doesn't pick up a tape measure and measure itself, it just fits.
There are numerous clutches you could buy. I happen to have the Centerforce Dual Friction on mine, can't recall the part # offhand.
Forget researching by the disc diameter. All you'll end up with, is confusion (where you already are right now). Just look for flywheels that work with the LT1 T-56, except for 2-piece rear main seal.
The most common flywheel for that swap is the Centerforce 700107. The stock T-56 clutch fits it. That happens to be the one I've got. Not that it matters what the disc diameter is; it's simply the STOCK LT1 part. You buy the LT1 clutch, and it doesn't pick up a tape measure and measure itself, it just fits.
There are numerous clutches you could buy. I happen to have the Centerforce Dual Friction on mine, can't recall the part # offhand.
Forget researching by the disc diameter. All you'll end up with, is confusion (where you already are right now). Just look for flywheels that work with the LT1 T-56, except for 2-piece rear main seal.
Have already found the (3) flywheels that work - all of which specify 11" clutch. Take it for what its worth, I really do not care either.. I am just telling you what the specs say... If you know something that ram and centerforce and spec do not.. great!
Here is summits Mcleod listing.
Max disc = 11"
McLeod Steel Flywheels: MCL-460300-2C - summitracing.com
and the centerforce:
max disc = 11"
Centerforce Steel Flywheels: CTF-700107 - summitracing.com
And here you can find Ram clutch size aplication chart:
pontiac 1
And here is summits listing for centerforce 97 trans am clutch disc:
Centerforce Performance Clutch Discs: CTF-381039 - summitracing.com
All of which say 11" - go see for yourself..
I guess we are all confused.....
Last edited by 87_TA; 08-08-2006 at 03:55 PM.
08-08-2006, 05:31 PM
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OK well that's great. My apologies. For what they're worth.
Now.... what does all of that have to do with whether you can make a non-LT1-T-56 flywheel work with a T-56? The disc diameter isn't what prevents that flywheel from working, or that allows it to work either.
Which is why I've suggested however many times, don't worry about the disc diameter; worry about getting parts that fit and work together. Which, a non-LT1 flywheel and a LT1, WILL NOT work together, using stock parts; REGARDLESS of the disc diameter. Move past that and on to the things that are the real issue. The only way to have any chance of getting that flywheel and that kind of transmission to work together, is with a bunch of aftermarket stuff that will probably cost more than the "right" flywheel.
So, rather than getting into long drawn-out arguments over disc diameter, have you gone and LOOKED at a setup for LT1, and seen yet what it is about the T-56, that regular old 4-speed/T-5 type stuff won't work? It's one of those things where ONE LOOK is worth no telling how many words. ONE LOOK, and you'll understand alot better the features that you will be having to deal with, in order to get it to work.
Now.... what does all of that have to do with whether you can make a non-LT1-T-56 flywheel work with a T-56? The disc diameter isn't what prevents that flywheel from working, or that allows it to work either.
Which is why I've suggested however many times, don't worry about the disc diameter; worry about getting parts that fit and work together. Which, a non-LT1 flywheel and a LT1, WILL NOT work together, using stock parts; REGARDLESS of the disc diameter. Move past that and on to the things that are the real issue. The only way to have any chance of getting that flywheel and that kind of transmission to work together, is with a bunch of aftermarket stuff that will probably cost more than the "right" flywheel.
So, rather than getting into long drawn-out arguments over disc diameter, have you gone and LOOKED at a setup for LT1, and seen yet what it is about the T-56, that regular old 4-speed/T-5 type stuff won't work? It's one of those things where ONE LOOK is worth no telling how many words. ONE LOOK, and you'll understand alot better the features that you will be having to deal with, in order to get it to work.
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08-08-2006, 05:57 PM
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Originally Posted by sofakingdom
OK well that's great. My apologies. For what they're worth.
Now.... what does all of that have to do with whether you can make a non-LT1-T-56 flywheel work with a T-56? The disc diameter isn't what prevents that flywheel from working, or that allows it to work either.
Which is why I've suggested however many times, don't worry about the disc diameter; worry about getting parts that fit and work together. Which, a non-LT1 flywheel and a LT1, WILL NOT work together, using stock parts; REGARDLESS of the disc diameter. Move past that and on to the things that are the real issue. The only way to have any chance of getting that flywheel and that kind of transmission to work together, is with a bunch of aftermarket stuff that will probably cost more than the "right" flywheel.
So, rather than getting into long drawn-out arguments over disc diameter, have you gone and LOOKED at a setup for LT1, and seen yet what it is about the T-56, that regular old 4-speed/T-5 type stuff won't work? It's one of those things where ONE LOOK is worth no telling how many words. ONE LOOK, and you'll understand alot better the features that you will be having to deal with, in order to get it to work.
Now.... what does all of that have to do with whether you can make a non-LT1-T-56 flywheel work with a T-56? The disc diameter isn't what prevents that flywheel from working, or that allows it to work either.
Which is why I've suggested however many times, don't worry about the disc diameter; worry about getting parts that fit and work together. Which, a non-LT1 flywheel and a LT1, WILL NOT work together, using stock parts; REGARDLESS of the disc diameter. Move past that and on to the things that are the real issue. The only way to have any chance of getting that flywheel and that kind of transmission to work together, is with a bunch of aftermarket stuff that will probably cost more than the "right" flywheel.
So, rather than getting into long drawn-out arguments over disc diameter, have you gone and LOOKED at a setup for LT1, and seen yet what it is about the T-56, that regular old 4-speed/T-5 type stuff won't work? It's one of those things where ONE LOOK is worth no telling how many words. ONE LOOK, and you'll understand alot better the features that you will be having to deal with, in order to get it to work.
Also I have stated that "I researched and found that I have no option other than buying the dedicated flywheel" and have found the Mcleod for $275.
I was past that issue a while ago - but figured I would search for a cheaper solotion.. And there are solutions! But none that are very cost effective... But If I came across a 153 tooth F/W that would accept the "11" inch disc - my friend who is a machinest could recess the bolts and redrill for the Pressure plate. Or if I could get a blank core..
But I found that the easiest solution is buy the Flywheel.
You can't blame me for trying do you? if I could have saved myself and others money - why not. Its just that the LT1 clutch and F/W solution is alot more expensive than others. I could have used a t5 style clutch and hyd. but needed the holding power of an 11".
I may have gotten a little to mad also..
Just don't like when people talk down to me either, especially when I am right.
To often there are keyboard and bench racers here that just want to make themselves look inferior for some reason.
Thanks for the help - sorry for drama..
Should have trans in my posetion next week.
But will be a couple before I can spring for $800 worth of clutch and plate.
Last edited by 87_TA; 08-08-2006 at 06:04 PM.
08-09-2006, 09:14 AM
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Car: 1982 Z28
Engine: 355
Transmission: T56
Axle/Gears: 12 Bolt
Did you look into the LS1 T56 swap?You can run a stock T5 bell,or aftermarket scattershield since you race the car,T5 pedals,hydraulics,flywheel & clutch,mcleod adapter plate and an LS1 T56.Cheaper than LT1 parts.
TwlightTropics (sp?) runs this setup.T5 to LS1 T56,I swapped over from a T10 and run a Lakewood scattershield with a centerforce DF clutch.Works great and is only $250 to replace if it (clutch) blows.Those LT1 clutches are $$$.Then you can run a regular flywheel for a 2 pc block.I run a Hays billet steel model.
It sounds like you already bought a trans,but this is just another option.
TwlightTropics (sp?) runs this setup.T5 to LS1 T56,I swapped over from a T10 and run a Lakewood scattershield with a centerforce DF clutch.Works great and is only $250 to replace if it (clutch) blows.Those LT1 clutches are $$$.Then you can run a regular flywheel for a 2 pc block.I run a Hays billet steel model.
It sounds like you already bought a trans,but this is just another option.
08-09-2006, 10:26 AM
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That is another option; there's a couple of other minor details to attend to, but supposedly it works. I have no personal knowledge of that however. But if you don't already have the LT1 T-56 yet, that might be something else to investigate.
I agree, the LT1 clutch and the "special" flywheel are OUTRAGEOUS; I can't blame you one bit for looking for alternatives; but, given that they're a guaranteed bolt-in and work deal, no experimentation required, there's something to be said for that. It'd be wise while researching it though, to be as informed as possible about what the variables are, and approach it with as few preconceptions as possible. And that info isn't always easy to come by, but mistakes are expensive and possibly even fatal to the driver and passengers, if something doesn't work out right. Trail and error isn't your friend, when the stakes of the errors are as high as they are with flywheels and clutches and such.
Incidentally 87, I have a bunch of motor parts almost exactly like yours; MiniRam, solid roller of similar specs to yours, good heads, etc. Except whenever I get off my rear end and do something with it all, it'll probably go in a bigger motor than just a 400. Got any times or dyno results or anything from your motor as yet?
I agree, the LT1 clutch and the "special" flywheel are OUTRAGEOUS; I can't blame you one bit for looking for alternatives; but, given that they're a guaranteed bolt-in and work deal, no experimentation required, there's something to be said for that. It'd be wise while researching it though, to be as informed as possible about what the variables are, and approach it with as few preconceptions as possible. And that info isn't always easy to come by, but mistakes are expensive and possibly even fatal to the driver and passengers, if something doesn't work out right. Trail and error isn't your friend, when the stakes of the errors are as high as they are with flywheels and clutches and such.
Incidentally 87, I have a bunch of motor parts almost exactly like yours; MiniRam, solid roller of similar specs to yours, good heads, etc. Except whenever I get off my rear end and do something with it all, it'll probably go in a bigger motor than just a 400. Got any times or dyno results or anything from your motor as yet?
08-09-2006, 11:10 AM
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Originally Posted by sofakingdom
That is another option; there's a couple of other minor details to attend to, but supposedly it works. I have no personal knowledge of that however. But if you don't already have the LT1 T-56 yet, that might be something else to investigate.
I agree, the LT1 clutch and the "special" flywheel are OUTRAGEOUS; I can't blame you one bit for looking for alternatives; but, given that they're a guaranteed bolt-in and work deal, no experimentation required, there's something to be said for that. It'd be wise while researching it though, to be as informed as possible about what the variables are, and approach it with as few preconceptions as possible. And that info isn't always easy to come by, but mistakes are expensive and possibly even fatal to the driver and passengers, if something doesn't work out right. Trail and error isn't your friend, when the stakes of the errors are as high as they are with flywheels and clutches and such.
Incidentally 87, I have a bunch of motor parts almost exactly like yours; MiniRam, solid roller of similar specs to yours, good heads, etc. Except whenever I get off my rear end and do something with it all, it'll probably go in a bigger motor than just a 400. Got any times or dyno results or anything from your motor as yet?
I agree, the LT1 clutch and the "special" flywheel are OUTRAGEOUS; I can't blame you one bit for looking for alternatives; but, given that they're a guaranteed bolt-in and work deal, no experimentation required, there's something to be said for that. It'd be wise while researching it though, to be as informed as possible about what the variables are, and approach it with as few preconceptions as possible. And that info isn't always easy to come by, but mistakes are expensive and possibly even fatal to the driver and passengers, if something doesn't work out right. Trail and error isn't your friend, when the stakes of the errors are as high as they are with flywheels and clutches and such.
Incidentally 87, I have a bunch of motor parts almost exactly like yours; MiniRam, solid roller of similar specs to yours, good heads, etc. Except whenever I get off my rear end and do something with it all, it'll probably go in a bigger motor than just a 400. Got any times or dyno results or anything from your motor as yet?
Good info guys!
I do have a B/W T56 already lined up - and actually just got EMAIL telling me its out of the donor car..
Actually sofakingdom,
I have been running this combo for 4 years now with minor changes along the way. With lots of strip and street time.
The car has gone a best of 10.87 @ 125 naturally asperated and on
pump gas
Its gone 10.09 @ 132 on a 125 shot, spraying at 15 mph via prom using the TCC out put. That was also on pump gas.
I have also had the same 10 bolt rear in there and running 10s with for last 4 years.. And was trying to dip into a 9.99. I really can't believe its still living
after all these years, but it worries me going to a manual - I don't think it will take that for long. but then again.. its held up to a best of 1.38 60ft so far.. when most are breaking in the 1.7/1.6 areas.
Here is a vid of 10.09 run:
Well can't seem to find the 10.09 - so here is a 10.11
Video - 87 TA goes 10.11 with one hell of a nice launch. www.streetnstrip.org www.pittspeed.com www.steelcitystangs.com
Last edited by 87_TA; 08-09-2006 at 11:40 AM.
08-09-2006, 11:20 AM
#12
Originally Posted by 87_TA
Good info guys!
I do have a B/W T56 already lined up - and actually just got EMAIL telling me its out of the donor car..
Actually sofakingdom,
I have been running this combo for 4 years now with minor changes along the way. With lots of strip and street time.
The car has gone a best of 10.87 @ 125 naturally asperated and on
pump gas
Its gone 10.09 @ 132 on a 125 shot, spraying at 15 mph via prom using the TCC out put. That was also on pump gas.
I have also had the same 10 bolt rear in there and running 10s with for last 4 years.. And was trying to dip into a 9.99. I really can't believe its still living
after all these years, but it worries me going to a manual - I don't think it will take that for long. but then again.. its held up to a best of 1.38 60ft so far.. when most are breaking in the 1.7/1.6 areas.
Here is a vid of 10.09 run:
I do have a B/W T56 already lined up - and actually just got EMAIL telling me its out of the donor car..
Actually sofakingdom,
I have been running this combo for 4 years now with minor changes along the way. With lots of strip and street time.
The car has gone a best of 10.87 @ 125 naturally asperated and on
pump gas
Its gone 10.09 @ 132 on a 125 shot, spraying at 15 mph via prom using the TCC out put. That was also on pump gas.
I have also had the same 10 bolt rear in there and running 10s with for last 4 years.. And was trying to dip into a 9.99. I really can't believe its still living
after all these years, but it worries me going to a manual - I don't think it will take that for long. but then again.. its held up to a best of 1.38 60ft so far.. when most are breaking in the 1.7/1.6 areas.
Here is a vid of 10.09 run:
FWIW, I broke a few stock rears when I had my stick shifted combos, one with the 305 (honestly),but with NO2, and one with the 355, N/A. I actually drove the car home from the track, when I grenaded the stock rear,(shearing three teeth off the ring), on the starting line. I actually made it until I got two blocks from my house, then I had to call my brother with the rollback, to get it the rest of the way. One was just on its way out, when I ordered my 9" from Currie.
Maybe your luck will stay with you, but I doubt it. Sorry to be off topic.
08-09-2006, 11:39 AM
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Originally Posted by brutalform
Tom, you WILL put a serious hurting on that rear now! I still can not believe how long it held up to an auto, in a 10 sec. car this long. I was watching one of your vids, and I cringed, when I saw the wheels go in the air, thinking about that rear...OUCH!
FWIW, I broke a few stock rears when I had my stick shifted combos, one with the 305 (honestly),but with NO2, and one with the 355, N/A. I actually drove the car home from the track, when I grenaded the stock rear,(shearing three teeth off the ring), on the starting line. I actually made it until I got two blocks from my house, then I had to call my brother with the rollback, to get it the rest of the way. One was just on its way out, when I ordered my 9" from Currie.
Maybe your luck will stay with you, but I doubt it. Sorry to be off topic.
FWIW, I broke a few stock rears when I had my stick shifted combos, one with the 305 (honestly),but with NO2, and one with the 355, N/A. I actually drove the car home from the track, when I grenaded the stock rear,(shearing three teeth off the ring), on the starting line. I actually made it until I got two blocks from my house, then I had to call my brother with the rollback, to get it the rest of the way. One was just on its way out, when I ordered my 9" from Currie.
Maybe your luck will stay with you, but I doubt it. Sorry to be off topic.
By the way! get that intake swapped! I can't wait till next season for results!
08-09-2006, 03:18 PM
#14
Funny you should mention that. I just got back from the post office, and just sent it out for bungs, rails, and fuel rail standoffs. I might throw it on with the solid roller I have now, when it gets back. Maybe I'll keep the cam I have. Not sure though. I do have a profile picked out though. I have to step up on the springs with this one.
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