Cya around the boards dude
Good luck with your ride

 

Thanks you too

 

Ok so the trannsmission is making some really weird noises now...and I don't know what it is....the TV cable is adjusted perfectly right where its supposed to be and everything....its just that new mount....

 

What kind of noises? Be VERY specific.

 

Grinding almost umm its hard to explain........

When I'm sitting there I can kinda hear it too, and when I start up the car I can hear noises like that from the transmission, when I never could before, I wish I could record it but I doubt it will be audible from something like my phone recording it......

The best that I can think to describe it is like a grinding noise, faint but noticable, it sounds like its moving like revolving in the transmission like one of the planetaries is grinding up against something.....maybe theres debris in the tranny after what its been through this week, maybe I burn't my clutches, but it shifts perfectly....

 

The guy at the dealer think that maybe since the transmission was sitting lower due to a worn/damaged transmission mount that now with the transmission in the proper place, the Universal Joint is causing problems and making the noises, which makes sense. They said that nothing should be wrong with the internals of the transmission though so that makes me feel better, its getting inspected now on Monday so they're going to take the car out for a drive to see what kinds of noises its making.

 

No don't take this the wrong way, but you're talking about all these non-descript symptoms with various different people and you're getting a million different answers. That transmission mount doesn't look too bad. When they come out in two or three pieces (more common then you think) then maybe it could cause a U-joint problem, but honestly it sounds like your guy is just blindly throwing darts at the solution board on the wall.

So here's my advice, if you can't educate yourself fast enough to solve the problem before it becomes serious or potentially dangerous, find yourself a qualified mechanic and let him/her drive the car and diagnose the problem. Otherwise, at the rate you're going you're going to waste a bunch of time, spend a bunch of money, and still have the real issue.

 

If you can, remove the 4 bolts at the rear u-joint of the driveshaft (jack up the REAR of the car or you'll lose ATF from the tail of the trans), put the trans in Neutral and rotate the driveshaft 180* to get at the other 2 bolts, pry the rear u-joint out of the saddle after marking one of the caps and its saddle with some paint or Wite-Out, push the driveshaft forwards enough to drop the rear u-joint, and pull the front out of the trans. Stand the driveshaft up, and feel the trans u-joint for stickiness and/or a grainy feeling as you move it through its ENTIRE limit of travel (vertically, side to side, all the way around in a circle). Flip the driveshaft and repeat. Reinstall, with the marked cap and saddle being joined together. If either u-joint feels tight or grainy, you'll need to have the u-joint (and possibly the other as well) rebuilt.

Something must have been done to the car before you got it if a u-joint or something inside the trans is failing after one hard launch... Mine haven't failed yet, and AFAIK, I'm still running an original 87 driveshaft with the original u-joints.

 

Thanks for the advice, this sounds pretty easy I'll see if I can do this this weekend, but I doubt it if we get snow here in central PA.

This wasn't my shade tree guy telling me this, I asked the dealer about it today and thats what the service manager told me, hes an expert. The mount isnt supposed to be crushed like that either I'm pretty sure, if it was supposed to be then they would make them like that.

 

Did he drive the car or is he working from your not too specific description of the problem? Did you pay for a diagnosis or were you just bugging him while he had other work to do? Have you thought about taking the car to a transmission shop and letting them drive the car to see if they think it's a transmission or driveline problem?

 

No the guy stood and talked to me for a few minutes, but I haven't had a chance to take it to like Aamco yet, its about 20 miles away and theyre usually pretty busy, my dealer though, is not.

My dealer wont charge me for a diagnosis, I personally asked one of the mechanics to help me with a part before and he didnt want anymore money than what the part was worth.

They did a full computer trouble code scan with their Tech 2 before too and didnt charge me a penny.

But I simply told the guy that the transmission was making noises and he said it shouldn't be, and he said to drop it off monday and they would take it for a drive and see what they can come up with, while I get my inspection done.

I told him what it sounded like(grinding, howling) and then I told him what I thought it was(the internals) and he said that theres no reason why anything on the inside of the transmission would be making noises after fixing a mount. Then he suggested U-joints.....

 

Well then just wait until Monday and give them a chance to diagnose it first hand. Most mechanics are going to be taking shots in the dark to diagnose something like a noise or vibration from a customer description.

 

When you do take it to the shop, make sure you have the best guy on the case, or the "resident" transmission expert. A lot of guys working for GM dealers are ASEP students, and don't know much about anything yet, nor do they have the experience the "resident" gets paid for. With something like this, if the wrong person diagnoses the problem, the costs can add up quick, possibly ending in some sort of major failure. Heck, I'd take the car to Aamco regardless, just to get a second opinion, before I made a decision on what I would do. Especially because, like I said before, driveline problems get expensive QUICK.

 

Yeah I'll just have to get up and head over quick tmrw and give them a talk about it, I don't think this guys a student, hes got to be in his 50's now and well hes told me hes been working there for a long time, the guy at the parts desk is my neigbhor and hes worked there for 40 years, its kinda sad because with the GM dealership slim down theyre not going to be a Chevy Dealer come October, but thats not the point....

I'll get my *** out of bed tomorrow and head over, I don't want to end up replacing most of my drive train because I hit a patch of ice one time....

 

Ok Aamco wasn't open when I got there, so I did some things myself:

Checked tranny fluid, rosy red nothing rough in it, smooth, light burning smell

Ran car through first 3 gears, rough engagement, rougher than normal 1-2, rougher than normal 2-3, didn't get it to speed for 4th or Torque converter lock-up

Still making noises

The car shifts into 2 from 1 nicer than it does 3 from 2, when it shifts from 2 to 3 it makes a thud noise

When i take it out of park and put it in gear it makes a thud noise and jolts the car

When i take it out of gear its completely fine, no thuds

Somethings not right...

I need to get it to a shop asap....

 

Ok I put the car up in the air and checked everything that I know to check and the mount is properly installed and everything. I put the car in gear and got it up to about 35 mph so thats 3rd gear, and it shifted perfectly through all the gears so noises or anything like before. There was no noise when it shifted, and there was no noise from the transmission like before. When it was in gear it wasnt making any sounds, but I did notice when I would put the tranny in "N" and get under and manually turn the drivetrain that both the front and the back u-joints have play in them, and thats probably why when I engage the transmission from park to drive that its so hard, its not the transmission shifting hard, its the whole drivetrain being shifted into motion that makes it do that.

So I don't have a transmission problem, I have a drive train problem.

So new U-joints, and while im there I might as well replace the rear main seal and maybe I'll even take the transmission out and replace the torque converter, since I think its not functioning properly

When I put the car back down and took it for a road test it shifted perfectly, and smoothly, even though it was making noises they werent nearly as bad as before for what ever reason.

I counted as it when through the gears 1-2, 2-3, 3-4, and 4-O/D and it was all good.

It just concerns me that over the time that I've been driving the car it takes more and more RPMS to maintain a speed in O/D when the torque converter is locked, so the clutch on its got to be going bad, and well right now I need about 3100RPM to hold 70 mph when I hear about people on here who have the same engine gears and tranny set up who hold 70 at around 2400, which is where I hold 50-55 right now.

So I think I've got this firgured out. Hopefully.

 

Well since FireInMe17 was trying to figure out how to do a TV cable adjustment, I found this on youtube, this should be useful to others:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WWEq5...eature=related

OR:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CQlCkb_eIpA&NR=1

I hope this helps others out there.

 

It was the mount, AAMCO told me today that it was definetaly the mount, I was sold the wrong one, so I didn't have time tonight to get the right one so I just loosened up the whole cross bar that the mount and the transmission sit on, and BAM. No more noises.

I'm going to go get the right mount from NAPA and then replace the one from Advance Auto Parts with the one from NAPA and take the one back to Advance and close the case on this one! WOOHOO!!

 

Let me guess, your trans is randomly unlocking the TCC when you're trying to maintain, say 72? And it gets worse as the engine and trans get hotter? That's why I yanked mine, and I haven't felt like finding out why it did that. I was running around 2900 RPM at 70-72 when I finally gave up after having extensively gone through flowchart after flowchart and even bypassing ECM control of the TCC (which requires a simple switch or something of that sort between the upper left and upper right terminals of the ALDL if you're interested). It even did that after a fluid/filter change (which I advise you do as your fluid is getting worn out).

 

No its not randomly unlocking, it seems like more and more that i drive it the more that I have to push on the gas pedal to get it to maintain a speed, and over time its taking more RPM's to do the same job.

When i first got the car it would hold like 2800-2900RPM to hold 70, and now it takes about 3100, and sometimes even more than that, and its annoying.


Plus, everyone on here that has the same set up as me tell me that they cruise 70 at about 2400RPM and well im doing it with 3000+

Doesn't feel right to me......

 

Quick Question though, when I'm going up a hill and its going strong and I don't push on the gas anymore, and its holding speed, and then the torque converter unlocks, is that the transmission slipping or the torque converter going bad...

My one friend who has an '85 Scottsdale with a '90 6.2L Deisel and a 700R-4 says thats what he thinks it is, or when hes going up a hill in 4th and it shifts down to 3rd for a few seconds, I'm not sure, just thought I'd run it by you guys here and see what you have to say, thanks again!

 

Doesn't sound to me like the TCC is even locking... Do the switch/wire test as I posted above sometime. You can get the TCC to lock even in First if it works at all. If not, I may still have my charts on either my hard drive or my USB stick, I can send them to you if I do. Sounds to me like the guy with the truck doesn't know the difference between TCC lock and unlock and downshifting... It's possible that he thinks that the TCC unlocking is downshifting, but it isn't, or it shouldn't be. IF your TCC is locking, then it's possible you aren't even in OverDrive when it locks. The TCC CAN lock in third gear, but it depends on a number of things (coolant temp, vehicle speed, MAP reading, etc).

 

I tested it the other night, I payed attention to what gear I was in and how it shifted and where it shifted. It made it 1-2, 2-3, 3-4, and then 4-O/D, so it has to be locking, just not correctly or fully or something....

I'll see if I can find what you said earlier to test it and see what I can do with it, hopefully I won't need a new one, but who knows....

My friend with the truck just thinks its plain old slipping but he beats the hell out of it so I wouldn't be suprised. Plus when he said something about it we were flying up the hill and I didn't know what gear we were in, I wasn't paying attention to it, so again I have no idea what it was doing, and I probably won't until I drive it.

 

The TCC solenoid isn't that hard to replace, and neither is the o-ring on the valve. Take off the oil pan, remove the filter, and there it is, held in by 2 bolts. Although the bugger isn't cheap... I think I paid $30 for the one I never installed.

 

Is that what it sounds like to you? The solenoid going out? God I would love it if that would fix my problems

 

One of the things I learned in Transmissions class was that about 80% of common automatic transmission failures are related to blown seals. And knowing how many seals there are in the 700R4, it's a good possibility that the one on the solenoid valve is bad, or one of the others in the TCC system. Before you pull the pan, though, see if the TCC will lock at all (the ALDL test again). You'll also need to check to see if the 4th gear switch is grounded or open, and the only way to do that is to raise the rear off of the ground and accelerate to about 45 MPH on the speedo.

:edit: I do have those TCC charts, but you'll need Acrobat reader to use the file.

 

I have Acrobat Pro 7 so thats not a problem, the other day I had it up to about 35 on the speedo but it was starting to kick **** at the garage door so I put the brakes on, haha.

I know that my rear main seal has a small, slow leak to it, but its only noticable if you actually look at the mount where it was dripping, like you can't tell just by driving it that somethings up, and the dipstick doesn't show it either.

Do you have anything about doing a TCC test correctly?

Thanks again Maverick H1L, I can't tell you how big of a help you are to me.

 

What happens at 45mph?

 

That's usually the point where the TCC is SUPPOSED to kick in, but it also guarantees that the trans is in 4th gear.

The TCC charts walk you through the test... They were scanned out of the FSM. However, some parts require a scanner or equivalent so you can see if the ECM is actually commanding the TCC to lock or not, plus you will need to see if the 4th gear switch signal is reaching the ECM. However, checking the 4th gear switch is easy enough with a DMM at the ECM.

PM me your email addy and I'll zip them out to you.

 

OK guys, called my builder buddy and it's confirmed. I haven't lost my mind, even though copious amounts of alcohol, even beer, can cause old-timers hehe.

LATE part-throttle shifting is OK as it takes more for the internals to overcome the HIGHER line pressure.

So, if you mess with your TV Cable, and are unsure if it is within safe limits, err on the side of late and not early part-throttle shifts, and you will keep the internals happy-ish.

Keep in mind this has nothing to do with hard driving, just easy part-throttle.

 

Ok so I took the car on a trip to Altoona, Pa which is about 170 miles and the entire trip the car felt really weak and you guessed it, when the torque converter was locked up it wasn't locked up where it should be, and wanted to come unlocked all the time and it did at random times.

It wouldn't hold speeds very well like it always used to and just didn't feel right.

Sound like its time for a new torque converter solenoid huh?

Could it just be because I still dont have the correct mount on the car but have the wrong one hanging lower on the mounting bracket to prevent noises?

 

It could be the solenoid, the seal on the end of the solenoid valve, or there is a TCC screen somewhere near or under the valve body that could be plugged, or any number of things that could be causing low pressure in the TCC circuit, that is only raised by pressing the pedal down harder (I'm assuming that is what happened, right?).

 

Hit the nail right on the head....ugh this is so frustrating

 

Like I said before, either in this or another thread, that's why I yanked my 700R4 for a T5. I ended up spending $1200 anyways, but at least I know my T5 is in gear and won't randomly shoot up to 3K going down the road. When I yanked the 700, I was torn between having the car on blocks for weeks with no trans or having the swap done in a few days when I needed to work. Good thing I didn't have the trans rebuilt as the right front ball joint on my Grand Prix (which I was driving while I was swapping the trans) popped out right after I started getting things disconnected and removed. Luckily, I was at a point that was reversible, and I drove the Bird to work for about a week while I fought that ball joint off of the control arm (blasted rivets!).

Since I am assuming you want to keep the auto, you might want to look around and see what trans shops say about the TCC. I haven't had the ambition to dig into my 700 and find out WTF was wrong with the TCC system, although now I just want the thing out of my garage, which already has too much crap in it. Problem with the V6 700R4 is that, even freshly rebuilt, it isn't worth squat except to someone desperate for a replacment, whom are few and far between.

 

So....what your saying is that its about time for a transmission rebuild.....sweet. Might as well go all out and drop in a V8 and get the whole deal done....I don't really want to sway a V8 but i just want more power, and its been getting the mileage of a V8 lately anyway so I don't know.

 

Not at all. I'd first yank the solenoid to see if it's working, and also check the 4th gear switch for the same. The reason I went all out and yanked my 700 was because I had already planned to do so. The TCC problem was just the nail in the coffin for the blasted thing.

 

How much you want for that TCC solenoid MaverickH1L? And why not just replace all the switches while I'm in there? Would it be worth it? Kinda like a tune up for the transmission?

What is the exact function of a switch in the transmission?

 

There's only 2 electrical parts in the 700R4 installed in the F-body (AFAIK), the 4th gear switch and the TCC solenoid. Other versions have a switch for each gear, apparently. The 4th gear switch remains closed until the valve it's near opens it to tell the ECM the transmission is in 4th gear.

I'd say about $20 for the TCC solenoid, if I can find it. It should be near my transmission, but I'm not sure exactly where. I'll let you know.

 

Alright then, thanks alot, 20 bucks plus shipping and its sold

I don't want to yank everything out of the car until I really get into restoring it, and right before I go off to college isn't the best time to do so, I'm going to do it after I get out of school and just rebuild the entire thing. I don't want a new car, I want a third gen Camaro, and I just want my '90 Camaro.

I won't buy a new car, I'm driving this one as long as I possibly can.

So I'll start saving up to buy a solenoid and a 4th gear switch, and then while I'm at it, new tranmission fluid and fiilter with a properly adjusted TV cable and everything will be good, just as soon as I find out my idle problems

 

Nope... $20 shipped. Cost me around $15 way back when I bought it.

I swear I'm going to be buried in mine. Unless I get my '81 Z28, of course.

Trans fluid might not help too much. When I changed the perfectly good trans fluid (still clean, not burnt, and bright red) in mine, it didn't shift right for around a week, even though the fluid level was correct and checked and rechecked. Your fluid is getting worn out, yes, but it might be better to keep it and try not to abuse the trans too much until you get a chance to either have some work done on it, do some work on it, or get a rebuilt one.

 

Alright sounds good then.


I was trying to get an '84 Z28 with the L69 H.O. 305 off some guy but he refuses to sell it to anyone, don't get me wrong it needed a lot of work, but it would have been sweet to have



The last time that I got new transmission fluid it didn't affect it shifting at all, the guys that did it for me while I was in school said it was smooth and there were no shards or chunks of metal in it and it just smelled like it was burning(presumabely from me having a worn out TV cable at the time.....so its not like the fluid is keeping the transmission together or anything like the realyl beat up ones are.

I would love to rebuild it but just not right now, and when I do it's definately getting a shift kit and a Corvette or oversized servo and all that, its gonna be sweet

Just let me know when you find the solenoid with a PM or email or whatever and I'll send you a money order or something.

 

My older sister and her husband used to have a late second gen... I wanted that thing SOOOO bad, and was a little ticked when I heard they sold it for cheap. Of course, they said they could get it back and I could buy it for somewhere in the area of $4K. Trust me, that car wasn't worth $4k... I chose the 81 because it has different trim than the rest of the 78-81 cars and is the last of the second gens. Too bad the guy at my fav yard sold or scrapped the one he had that had the front removed from the rest but was still there. If I ever get one, I plan on shoehorning a 484 or something in it, maybe even a Ram-Jet 502...

I've got it right here. It was in it's original box, but the box was beat up so I tossed it.

 

Ok great, I'll be home Monday so I can go get a money order for you. I'll send you a PM then.