its getting warmer out and with my new engine/trans stall im getting warm trans temps.

car is a 383 HSR with stock aluminum radiator. has 25% coolant, 75% water and water wetter, 160Tstat, 10% higher than stock iron water pump, dual stock fans with 177on 166 off fan switch controlling both fans. cars engine temps range from 160-180degrees even in stop and go traffic. but if my engine temp is 160 my trans temp will be 180ish.

heres what i have for my trans, its a 2900stall 12" converter 700r4. it has a 4qt extra deep pan, has a mix of B&M trick shift, and raptor blood fluid, trans fluid runs into stock radiator resevour and runs into a trans temp gauge block which checks the trans temp before going into a B&M 24,000 GVW trans cooler mounted in front of the radiator which then goes back to the trans.

problem is that due to the higher stall and outside temps my trans temp is rising higher than my engine temps. i can feel a noticable difference in how the trans acts/lockups when the temps are higher vs cooler. i want the temps to be cooler like 160 max. how can i achieve this? not gona get my engine temp any lower.

can 2 trans coolers be run in parallel?

Sounds like something isnt right. I have a 355 with a 700r4 with a 10" 3000 stall. I have a aluminum 3 core rad, TCI extra 4 qt trans pan and a tranny cooler. My trans never gets above 170 unless im really beating on it and runs 150 just cruising. My trans is always 20-30 degrees cooler then my motor. Oh and my trans temp sensor is in my tranny pan.

May i ask for some pictures of how you mounted the tranny cooler?

umm i could prob get some, its mounted on the pass side upper middle of the rad. i made steel brackets so its resting against the rad and not using those plastic thru rad type spot ties(wire ties). i mounted it so it was right infront of the pass cooling fan. i have both fans wired into one relay that is controlled by the hypertech fan switch which is 177on and 160 off.

temps are now around 160ish. and get to the same temp as the engine eventually.

so no one has run dual tranny coolers?

I just use the radiator and a tranny cooler and I never see past 170.

Just want to know mainly the size of tranny cooler and location placed. I'm trying to pick a prime location. I thought of the drive side vent opening and using a small 4 line circuit cooler.

I dont know the exact transmission cooler im using but its along the lines of this
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/FLX-3818/

Mine is located right in front of the radiator in front of the passenger side grill.

this is the one im running i think. its the B&M supercooler. 24,000 GVW. came with hose and install kit. u just used the hose and made my own brackets.
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/BMM-70264/

I don't like how B&M sprayed it black, thats the complete opposite of what you want for a radiator to cool down, it will heat up more for what they did... but i really do enjoy the metal of how its been bent so you can bolt it up. Thats the only thing why i might consider it over the other radiators they offer.. thanks! I bought a 1/16th thick steel strip and going to cut it and fab out to bolt it to the radiator support on the bottom. Just need to get the cooler so i know where to bolt it too.

1/8" steel isnt really neccessary and quite overkill lol but if thats what you want to use then fine. i used the steel that came in the kit... it was like 1/16" thick and had many holes in it for me to mount it, then i placed some adhesive backed foam squares (came in the kit also) so the trans cooler could be layed right up against the rad and not damage the rad fins.

dnt know if painting it black would matter much.

I fixed it, it was 1/16th i don't know what i was thinking. So the BM kit comes with the mounting brackets? The paint does make a bit of a deal, it will trap more heat rather than letting it dissipate itself from the cooler, also if direct sunlight would hit it, it would absorb even more heat.

That's just such a big load of BS, a radiator relies on convection, not heat radiation. Same BS as the black pained engine running cooler old wives tale.

Is there an intense source of radiant heat, infrared or visible spectrum light on it? Then consider that with the ambient temperatures, would it soak up or dissipate heat @ 180F? At a certain point even the blackest of objects if under a source of radiated energy will get so hot that dissipation overcomes absoption of energy and I can tell you, @ 180F you need a mighty intense heat source to get it to still absorb energy if the ambient temp is maybe 80-100F lower.

The problem here is, he's running it right up against the radiator. Run it a good distance away and fabricate some kind of scoop or duct for it so air flow is positively funneled through the cooler, that will make it more efficient

Would i have to custom fab my own air duct with galvanized steel or does home depot or a supply house for hvac have nicely made ducts that would fit properly?

i thought u were suppose to run them against the rad? hence why most kits come with ties that secure it against the rad through the fins? this would allow the fans (when on) to pull air through the trans cooler as well... increasing the cooling while standing still and at light speeds. putting the cooler farther way will not allow this.

a duct would be best... hell u might as well make a duct for your intake and brakes. but the bottom of a firebird with no Ground effects is a straight shot with an under bumper cover that forces the air into the rad and into a trans cooler if its mounted there. so essentially the car has a stock "duct" forcing colder air into the cooler/rad.

i dnt believe that painting anything black will effect in cooling. i was interested in this black paint for headers/turbo downpipes that is suppose to trap the heat in the exhaust like a ceramic coating but better and it cost like 50$ a can!

I dont think 180 is that hot for a tranny but i could be wrong. I know you can have too hot but you can also have too cold.

The ties are the cheapest way to mount them. You are supposed to mount the cooler in such a way that it has a good amount of airflow available to it so it can do it's job efficient.

if you have a radiator and you put a cooler against the core right in front of it, that section will have a bigger restriction to airflow and the air will always take the path of least resistance, in other words it will flow easier through the rest w/ just the rad core.

Something like this works well, it's on a C3 vette which too is a bottom breather like the 3rd gen.

I call BS on that
Mounting the cooler infront of the radiator is perfectly fine. There's a ton of air flowing through the grill and under the car. There's no restriction if the cooler is infront of the radiator and there's no resistance.

i dnt think that 180 is too hot either. but that would be the max i would want. u lose alot of tranny life when the temps reach 200 degrees. and that u can triple the life of a trans by dropping the temp just 20degrees. i would say the sweet spot is 160-180. my trans will sometimes not show on my 140-300 degree gauge. but usually its like 160 driving around, but it has gotten as high as 180 but that was a hot day and lots of stop and go traffic. thing is that trans dont like to cool as fast as engines do so its good to prevent temps if u can. also theres gotta be a reason for the trans coolers with fans to have there own temp switches set to 160. i can even feel a difference when the trans is 160 compared to 180 on how hard the trans shifts. the hotter the trans the weaker the shift.

that could be right twinturbo but i would assume that if most stock cars mount the trans cooler on the rad (alot of trucks/vans u can see it through the grill) and they do alot of towing/generate alot of trans heat. be interesting to see a test to see if mounting the trans cooler off the rad produced cooler temps or vise versa.

TOTALLY BS and myths here on the subject of black....

. Ive coated tons of motorcycle radiators, few cars coolers and radiators , etc.. in this stuff..
http://www.nicindustries.com/heat_dissipation.php


on a diff. note. I like the way thats mounted n th3 c3. but never had a problem with coolers mounted right to the rad.

If you read I said nothing about the cooler being in front of the radiator is bad, having it sit against the radiator makes it inefficient....

So you're saying that airflow will go through the oil cooler core and then the radiator core just as willingly as just the radiator? That
s nice to know, why have we been clowning around with large surface radiators then, we can stack 10 brick size ones in front of each other and save a bunch of room for other stuff then

And as for quickly calling BS on everything, I did actually test all this, on my old vette I had the exact same B&M stack plate cooler and was looking for a good spot to mount it. I also had a temp gauge in the line coming from the cooler. Moving the thing away from the radiator by just a couple of inches dramatically dropped the temperature. Sitting against the rad he water temp was affecting the oil cooler discharge tamp.

I don't have a prob. mounting coolers near the rad, just not on them.

Bad,inefficent pretty much saying the same thing. Last i checked the cooler and the radiator have cooling fins for the air to pass through and there not one solid piece.

If it was such a big problem then cars and trucks woudnt come from the factory with coolers and air condition condensors mounted infront of the radiator.

I i do call BS. vettes and third gens are lot different especially in the front bumper area. When you start running some "tests" and thirdgens let me know.

Mine is mounted to the cross bars in the nose of the car. I don't like putting it right on the radiator, but that's just me I guess. Good luck.


Mark.

You are still not getting it, they are indeed in front of each other BUT NOT AGAINST EACH OTHER WITH THOSE TIES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

80-82 Vettes and 3rdgens are very much alike in the way they scoop air from the buttom up to the radiator, both have a lower air dam with a rubber spoiler extension on it, the air flow works in much the same way.

The test is not even vehicle specific, the only change is running the cooler against the rad and a little away from it.

Wow, a cooler is not a solid object? I wouldn't have guessed. So there's no restriction to airflow through the core? LOL you are a genius!!!

I can't believe how much flak someone gets here over no brainer stuff like this

But do whatever you like, use the cheap ties and mount it on the rad. Then just don't come in here whining your cooler isn't working for ****.

Too many BS punks here.

Just doing a search on posts started by you learns me you don't know squat

Thanks twin_turbo for the pictures and information.

I think you just like to hear your self talk.

You said the having the tranny cooler in front of the radiator would create inefficent air flow. Now you want to back pedal and say the opposite.

You can do a search on me all you want I could care less. The fact is that putting the tranny cooler infront of the radiator dosent make anything less efficent. I have mounted coolers in front of the radiators on numerous cars and on my car I can cruise all day and the tranny temp stays at 150 degrees and if i step to it it will rise to 170. And thats with a high stall 10" converter.

I don't like to hear myself talk, I just can't stand BS like you post.

I'm not back pedaling, that comment was in respect to adding some sort of ducting to increase cooler efficiency. I'm not saying the opposite at all. You have a problem reading or grasping the concept here.

Having the cooler directly on the radiator results in heat from the radiator soaking into the cooler and yes, it does severely reduce air flow through the core. it's all about resistance and like most things in nature airflow also seeks the path of least restriction. Having the cooler and radiator sitting against each other increases the resistance there as the resulting core is thicker and also less open because the openings in both will not correspond, one will block the other and vice versa. You'll get the same effect as laying 2 mesh screens over each other, the effective openings will depend on how the 2 overlay.

Having the cooler sit just a but away from the radiator allows it to have a sort of flee outflow on the back so the flow through the core is much improved.

On top of that I suggested adding some ducting or at least some kind of flaps on 2 sides and the top so airflow trapped between is positively funneled through the core. This is the exact same principle as what a splitter does on the front of a race car.

Google search race car oil cooler ....one of the 1st results....what do we get???

What do we see here? coolers mounted with straps on the rad? No! Coolers w/ ducting? YES Now, I wonder why they did it like that, must be for ***** 'n giggles right?



look at what the pro's do and try to understand why they do it. There is no sense in bolting on an oil cooler and have it do it's job inefficiently. That's a waste of money, space and effort

What ever you say. I can google" camaro transmission cooler mounting and what pops up. Installing the cooler in front of the radiator. I dont post BS you just cant stand somneone having an opinion other than yours that works.

HELLO!! READ!!!! In front is not AGAINST the radiator

So I did your search, do you mean this pic? It's not sitting against the rad core


this one is (from an oil cooler install instructions page http://www.vortexbuicks-etc.com/radiatorinstall.htm), and the quality of workmanship in the install here tells me all I need to know. just because someone else does it, do you need to also?


Who wrote that? Is that guy an authority on how to install it? Did he install it with every aspect in mind regarding efficiency and as such the choice of location and mounting method? No, he bought a cooler and some cheap ties and used those to quickly slap it all together, presto an oil cooler. This is the reason why some cars are built better, nicer and cleaner than others. Instead of just slapping stuff together some people actually take their time and think something through and at least try to make something work as good as it can be done. Just like the 1st pic in respect to the 2nd.

If you want to do it like that, just do so. I don't care.

No **** infront is not against ! I never said against. People still do it either way.

http://www.fbody.com/tech/details.cgi?id=31

https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/tran...ere-mount.html

http://www.bfranker.badz28.com/94z/trannycooler.htm

google people jumping off buildings or in front of trains, you will find them...does that mean it's a smart thing to do?

Seriously who f#$k are you. Are you the top level authority on tranny cooler installs and you consult B&M and Hayden when they have questions. F#$k no you arent. You have an opinion like everyone else and what you say isnt set in stone.

That product will only help to remove heat through radiation. However, a radiator and trans cooler relies on convection cooling, so having a painted surface, no matter the color, will act as an insulator and reduce cooling.

Twin_Turbo and 84 z28, you guys are basically saying the same thing, so I don't know why you keep arguing.

I never said I was an authority, I said to compare what serious builders do instead of what joe average does and what he posted on the internet. Hence my referral to race cars and looking at how they install these coolers. You will not find a zip tie mounted one. You can be sure that a competitice race car has stuff like that worked out an installed to perform at the maximum efficiency with the least amount of weight, intrusion and clutter.

I installed my cooler on my rad with bolts and I think its causing an overheating problem on my car. My intercooler in front blocks alot of flow thru front grill so i guess that is one problem, but I think the driver side fan is unable to suck in air thru both the rad and trans cooler, with the two being stacked against each other.

You can feel air moving thru the rad onthe passenger side with no cooler in front of the rad (meaning no cooler against the rad). On the driver side with the fan on, you cant feel air moving inward thru the trans cooler which sits on the radiator. I guess that makes my rad size effectively almost 1/2 the size. I'm going to movemy cooler out in front alittle ways to see if that helps.

For what its worth the new F350 diesels come with a cooler for literally every fluid except the axles. They are all mounted on brackets that keep everything about 3/4" away from each other. I never thought about it before, but I can definetly see why having a small air space between things is better.

I'm running a switched 16in. “pusher” fan that I leave on most of the time in front of the radiator (outside) with a 12.5in. tall x 17in. wide Deraly engine/transmission combination cooler with a thermostatic sandwich adapter that lets the engine oil run through 6 passes at 180 .The transmission fluid runs through 4 passes at all times. I have it mounted on the “inside” next to the radiator. Then I mounted a 12in. “puller” fan on the inside and against the axillary cooler. Like a fan sandwich. One pushing and one pulling. I have the 12in. inside fan coming on at 204 engine temp. at the moment but want to go cooler. Lets say 180 “on”. The car was running around 200 engine temp. most of the time and in heavy traffic about 230 or higher. Now its running 180 engine temp. most of the time except in heavy traffic. Then it stays around 200. Thats why I am thinking of going to a lower temp. switch for the 12in. inside puller fan. It would be nice to see the engine temp. around 190 in heavy traffic.I'm also using a 180 thermostat. Any way this was my first attempt at lowering engine temperatures using only the stock engine temp. gauge to go by at this time. The main reason I brought this to the thread is because you all seem to have a better under standing of cooling systems. So I thought Id post this and see what you thought of using this idea to lower transmission temps. as well. I believe its got to be working for the transmission fluid because of how well its working with engine temperatures but will only know for sure after I install the transmission fluid gauge. By the way were is the best place to install that gauge?

im not a fan of the "fan sandwich. first you want to unshroud most of the front of the coolers as u can. remember that fan motors create heat as well. you want to pull the air through the rad/coolers and not push it since once the car is moving its forcing air through the coolers already. so basically your cancelling/ restricting the air thats trying to flow through the cooler/rad by the car moving. also i dnt like that the engine cooler/trans cooler combo... engine oil will tend to be hotter than the engine temp so by putting hot engine oil into the trans cooler your going to heat the trans temp up as well.

your prob going to have to increase your fans... sounds like your running a single 16" fan... you might want to step that up to dual fans. dnt know what would fit but my STOCK dual L98 fans with stock rad can keep my engine temps wayyyy low, 140-180 compared to a 86 TA that i owned that had a single fan and a 305.

a good way to think of it is how the engine behaves in traffic and highway etc. im running a 160 Tstat, 177on 166 off hypertech fan switch, both stock fans are wired off one relay so they come on at the fan switchs temps. this is enough to keep my engine very cool even with a 383 with 2900stall and lots of city driving. your Tstat seems ok but maybe dropping to a 160 might help. you need to program your fans to come one sooner and increase the fans... that would be my guess. i have my trans gauge in my car obviously but my sender is after the rad but before the trans cooler(this also makes me think that the trans temp is at least 10-20degrees hotter than what im seeing since it passed through the stock rad cooler already)... but it allowed me to not cut up the stock trans hard lines. putting one in the trans pan would be optimal.

NOW! on to me! so driving around my temps are anywhere from 140-170 on the trans temp... hasnt gotten real hot in jersey for a couple of weeks so it hasnt been too bad. but i took one for the team and got a NICE trans cooler with fan . its a perma cool 6 pass cooler, all aluminum, has a 8" fan that flows 2100cfm and only draws 4 amps

i looked at derale but they seemed cheap to me... there 8" fan only flowed 330-400cfm and draws 4.5 amps.... why so low compared to the permacool fan!

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/PRM-12211/

i also got a hayden thermostatic radiator probe adjustable fan switch. ill slide this into the cooler and set the trans cooler fan to my desired temp. i was thinking around 150ish
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/HDA-3653/

i want to mount this like the first pic that twin turbo posted of the race car or the C3 vette. i was thinking of having the fan set to pull and not push so it doesnt affect the ram air cooling aspect of it. any ideas?

I cant believe you guys have all these cooling problems with these electric fans or cooling problems all together. I still run the stock clutch fan and I have never had a problem cooling the car.

i dnt have a cooling problem. just wanted to lower my trans temp more. a 40degree difference in trans temp has a negative affect u can actually feel in the trans in how it shifts. not to mention the life of the trans as well. cooler temps will increase shift firmness and overall trans life

I know that, thats why I have a trans cooler. Since ronusmcmma posted his temps and I always see in the cooling section people with electric fans sometimes having a hard time cooling that is why i said it.

oh ok. well then thats kinda true. friend replaced his stock belt driven fan for a be cool dual electric fan kit... ended up overheating alot and went back to the belt driven fan.

still ive had no issues with my stock electric fans.

ok wanted to post a pic of the new cooler and how my old cooler was mounted.

the old cooler is mounted of the rad... about 1" off at the top of the cooler from the rad. the bottom of the cooler touches the rad barely and thats why there are foam pads on it. the cooler is mounted on the top half of the rad on the passenger side and uses brackets to hold the cooler in place (not the wire tie cr@p)

So the new cooler, 6pass all aluminum perma cool, with 8" 2100CFM fan. cooler looks good, real light. but the cooler is smaller than i would have expected. the cooler (not measuring the outside tube ends) is only 9.5"x 7.5"x3/4". My B&M that im taking off the car is 11"x5.75"x1.5". Im alittle bummed about that.

i want to mount the cooler off the rad. like in the race car pic by twin turbo. id fab up an aluminum scoop to force air into the cooler as well. but im having issues figuring out the instructions on the cooler... do i mount the fan so its pushing or pulling air through it.
this is what the perma-cool instructions state
"The fans are intended to PUSH air through the coils, NOT pull through-- in excessive conditions, the extremely hot air could distort, warp, or melt fan blade."

i thought that pulled the air through would be a better choice, allowing the air to be forced into the cooler (with scoop) and have the fan pull it through when im sitting in traffic. will the temps get hot enough to warm the fan in regular street driving?

should i start a new thread for the install in here or in the fabrication forum?

180 is not that bad. Look, you have outside temp, underhood temp. Then lets add the temp of the road surface then the hot exhaust from the car in front of you in that stop and go traffic. 180 is not going to kill the tranny. But if it realy bothers you, I would look at a truck that has a towing package, and see how they have the cooler mounted. Yes I know it is different from a 3rd gen but, you can mimic the way it is mounted, ie on or off the radiator. those trucks tow things a lot heavier than a 3rd gen, and have to hold up.
Just an idea.

problem with a 3rd gen firebird is that unlike the camaro the firebirds dnt have a open front bumper... the firebird gets all its air from underneith the bumper. mounting to the rad is acceptable but theres not much room in the area of air flow to mount much unless you get creative.

yesterday i drove my car (much warmer out now like 80ish degrees out) engine temps eventually reached 180 but the trans temp always seemed to be in the 180 range and it did break over 180 prob like 185. this is due to stop and go traffic and sitting at lights. still this is 185 after the stock radiator cooling has cooled the fluid so im saying my trans is hitting the 200 degree mark which is uncool.

If you do not have AC the Ac condenser (think that is what it is called) in front of the radiator works very well....