Alrighty so my car was originally a v6 5-speed, now has a mild 400 with a th-350 and I am absolutely astonished at how much gas this thing can drink down. Thus I would like to pop a manual in.

So the issue is im going to college dont have a lot of money and no garage. I'm prevented from going with a t5 because my mid-70's block is only drilled for the staggered starter bolt pattern that worked with a 168 tooth flywheel. And that flywheel doesnt fit in the t5's bellhousing. The engine will be coming out after I graduate and actually have money, so I can't really have the extra hole machined until then.

So are there any other options? Is there any other manual tranny that can fit a 168 tooth flywheel? Or does anybody know of a staggered pattern starter for a 153 tooth flywheel? I came up with a hit on google where someone said that a starter off of a newer chevy truck would work but I cant verify this...

 

Not sure why you think a manual is going to have that much impact on your gas mileage?

What tuning have you tried on your 400? what cam, pistons, heads, converter, and gears do you have?

There is NO SUCH STARTER. I have posted this over and over again until I'm almost sick of saying it. THINK!!!! if the flywheel you need to use is smaller, then its ring gear teeth are closer to the crank, right? Which means that the starter shaft and its drive teeth ALSO have to be closer to the crank, right? about how much closer, you ask? Well the 158-tooth one is 14", and the 153-tooth one is 12.8", so that's 1.2" different, half of which would be .6", which is just shy of 5/8". Now look inside a starter nosepiece. You will observe that the bolts are RIGHT NEXT TO the piece that the little gear is attached to. Now think about what would happen if you tried to move that piece over 5/8" while leaving the bolt holes where they are. It's pretty obvious, the bolt would go RIGHT DIRECTLY THROUGH the starter drive. There is NO POSSIBLE WAY for a starter to exist that has the mythical properties you're looking for. Don't believe it when somebody says there is, because THERE ISN'T.

Here's a pic of a 400 block showing the hole that needs to be drilled. This particular one is a 73 or 74 509 casting if memory serves.



The people who are saying what you want to hear, are ALL people WHO HAVE NEVER DONE IT. Note that they all tell you "it ought to work", "I heard it will work", "the catalog says it will work", and the like; not one will say, "I did it and it worked", because THEY DIDN'T DO IT. They can't. The pic above is from where I DID IT AND IT DID NOT WORK, so I drilled the hole.

Note that starter bolt holes are SPECIAL. The bolts are special as well. THe bolts have a section about ½" long right behind the threads that's larger than the rest, and the hole in the block has a larger section before the threads, such that about half of th elarge section of the bolt is in the block and the other half is in the starter. This forms a sort of "dowel pin" arrangement to POSITIVELY locate the starter on the block. This feature MUST be there or the starter will move and misalign and tear up things. The hole MUST be drilled correctly THE FIRST TIME or you basically scrap the block for this purpose. Not a task to be attempted while the motor is installed, laying on your back up under it.

I would strongly advise against putting a 6-cyl T-5 behind a 400, in any case. Even if you get the bell housing and various other parts you'll have to change because they won't bolt to a V-8, and get a clutch disc that will work. Based on how many of the STRONGER V-8 ones I tore up behind my 400 before I finally wised up and put a T-56 in it, I'd bet you will shred your 6-cyl weeenie thing the VERY FIRST TIME you enter the freeway too enthusiastically. Very bad plan. Better plan would be to put all that on hold until you can get a T-56; and meanwhile, learn to tune your 400.

 

I had no plan to put the v6 t5 in, currently the only transmission I have is the th-350. Being a 3 speed with the 3.43 gears it gets into the 3000+ rpm range crusing on the highway and I have to do quite a bit of driving from to school, work, etc. Engine was in the car when I got it so i'm not sure of the exact specs on it, but I talked to the guys at the shop where it was rebuilt and they seemed competent. What I do know is that its bored out into a 406 and has an edelbrock 4 barrel. I'm not expecting 30 mpg highway but any improvement over the 12 or I'm getting right now could not hurt. The engine itself runs very well I just need to figure a way out to claw those rpms down.

I figured there was no starter, but are there any other transmissions like the Munci's from the 70's that will fit over that bigger flywheel? Or did all 400's get an automatic...I wasn't around back then so its a little more difficult for me to figure this out.

Btw, Sofa you must have your message on the starter in your computer for copy/paste by now lol. Just about every thread on this topic I see a couple posts from you.

 

Ouch...

My 74 Caprice convertible with a 454, Turbo 400 and 3.42 gears (no such thing as 3.43 BTW) does better than that. It gets about 13 or so around town and around 15-16 on the highway, with 50 more inches and 1500 more lbs. than yours. Sounds like you need some tuning.

No, no Muncies will fit these cars without some serious effort, or without coming up with the 4-speed stuff from a 82 car which is getting to be rare as hen's teeth. And furthermore, a 4-spd won't change your RPMs (not that they need to be changed), since its high gear ratio is 1:1, same as the T-350. (BTW, I was around back then...) The fit issue starts with the clutch fork: that has to come out of the bell housing below the trans centerline (crankshaft), because if it came out straight, it would go RIGHT THROUGH THE MIDDLE of the gas pedal. So you're stuck with a BH for one of these cars, or an $$$aftermarket$$$ one, such that the fork can be rotated downward on the driver's side. But because of how the BH is made, it requires that the trans be rotated as well. Plus, you gotta do something about the torque arm. Altogether an ordeal.

Yeah I post about this when it comes up, because there's SO MUCH Friday night McDonalds parking lot monkey-spank going on about it. A couple of people here have been led down the primrose path by the wannabees, and found out AFTER they put the engine in, that it doesn't work; and end up having to take it BACK OUT and deal with it. Much smarter not to fall for the "what you want to hear" line, so you can just dive right into it and get it done without stupid detours.

 

Why not use a common 700R4 and 2.73 gears?

Actual overdrive and highway gears are perfect for a long range college car. Most people throw them away so you can find a good set on a college budget

Easier than mixing/matching stuff

 

Not a bad idea at all.

Along with some tuning, should work wonders.

 

Ya it looks like im gonna have to hit the yards this spring and find a 700r4, its just that these cars are much more suited to a manual for the daily driving...then again I spend most of the time on the highway not shifting anyway I guess.

As far as the 12 mpg goes thats just my guess the odometer doesnt work anymore. But hey I just had one last idea...how 'bout a couple rolls of duct tape to hold the starter in there?

Ah it is 3.42 I re-looked up the rpo code and I've been saying that wrong for months now.