RPOL98

20-ton press, arbor plates, and bearing separator will work. just be sure on reassembly, you got everything facing the right way, in the right sequence.

big gear head

That press has enough pressure, but it also has to be tall enough to stand the axle up to press the bearing off.

This is a one shot deal. If you press everything on and then find out that something isn't right then you will have to replace the bearing again. You can't press a bearing and retainer off and reuse it.

I haven't dealt with the 9 bolt axles much, but the way I understand it there is a right and left seal. There is something different about them, so you might want to check into that a little more.

RPOL98

yes, there's a RH seal, and a LH seal. ETA: i think the wheel bearings are the same, left & right (Timken SET9). just the seals are different.

i've used the HF 20-ton press. it's tall enough. chisel, grinder, whatever suits you, to remove sleeve retainer first, then bearing separator, hydraulic press for removing the old bearing, seal with the press. go slowly.

a lot of this information is posted in the "everything about 9-bolt" thread, other threads.

https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/faq-...ml#post5433138

https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/tran...er-9-bolt.html


ETA: wheel bearings are same, left and right. my bad. sorry.

amfornal

I found a pic of the axles. So do you also have to press the bearings off? Looking at the pic, how are you to get to the bearing to press them off?

TTOP350

iTrader: (8)

I have never bought seals or bearings for one of these rearends, why on earth would there different bearings and seals for each side? Anyone know for sure? Very curious, may rip one of mine apart just to check it out.

peterc005

Replace axle bearings on a Borg Warner rear end is simple.

1) Remove the wheel.
2) Remove brake drum or rotor
3) Undo the four bolts from the retaining plate. There is a hole in the axle flange that can be rotated to access the bolts with a socket.
4) Bolt the brake drum or rotor backwards onto the wheel studs to use it to pull the axle lose.
5) Use a press to change the bearing.

There is no C clip on these and you don't need to remove the diff cover.

RPOL98

i have to correct myself: the LH seal is different from the RH seal, however the same bearing set is used for both LH and RH axle ends. sorry.

red rock

iTrader: (2)

The bearings are the same for each axle. The seals ARE specific are each axle. One is spiraled left and one is spiraled right. You use a stand up 2 ton or what ever sized press and some different sized blocks and plates. The last time i rebuilt and replaced the bearings and seals, I bought mine from NAPA.

keykey

I replaced my bearings and seals when I replaced the diff. On the left side I had to replace everything again shortly after since the seal I got from National Seal started leaking after a very short time. There was a fabrication defect on the lip that seals against the axle. I had to press the bearing off again and replace that as well.

The first time I used an angle grinder to cut the retainer before I pressed the bearing off. The second time I pressed the bearing and the retainer off together since I was lazy and had access to a huge monster press. I do not recommend this though, at least not with a bearing separator... I almost bent the bearing separator that I borrowed from work.

The shop manual recommends drilling the retainer and splitting it with a chisel... tried that but I couldn't split it.

As previously said, the RH and LH seals are different since they are spiraled different. Also one is flat and one has the "dust lip" protruding, don't know why, looks really weird...

GeneralDisorder

iTrader: (1)

Hi everyone - I'm new here. Not to forums or wrenching. I own a busy 5 bays shop specializing in Subarus and other imports. Anyway I have a project 86 Trans Am and decided to change my final drive from the factory 2.77 to 3.70.

I started out with a "rebuilt" 3-series carrier from 9bolt.com. It lasted about 2500 miles (wouldn't say it actually "lasted" at all though) before the carrier cones disintegrated into
a large amount of cast iron slurry. This was behind a stock TPI 305 and a slipping automatic. I'll post about that experience in another section one the forum. The guy won't respond to my email....

I got a Torsen (Eaton Truetrac knock off) carrier from Supa F Spares in Australia and it dropped right in with just minor clearancing of the pinion head. This thing absolutely rocks. I couldn't be happier. This carrier is a product they sell for Holden Commodores and Nissan Skylines in Australia. It's sold under their "Torqueline" differential brand:

https://supafspares.supplies/torqueline-differential/

Dave at Supa F was extremely helpful and the shipping was fast. The carrier was at my door in about 4 days via DHL. Total cost shipped was $530 USD. They accept PayPal. Contact Dave to get one:

Dave@supafspares.com.au

I'll post some pics up here in a bit. I didn't take many as I was in a hurry to get that rebuilt 3 series from 9bolt.com out of there along with the silver paint it filled my axle with. At any rate it's just a carrier install we have all seen it before. Nothing unusual about it.

This was an excellent way to get a proper Truetrac without spending a fortune on a new 8.8 or 9" that I don't need. The Australian guys runs these behind 500 HP RB30DET's with blowers. The 7.75 9 bolt is actually quite strong. When I tore down the 2.77 after 150k miles and 30 years it showed no wear whatsoever. I didn't even change the wheel bearings. With the Torsen carrier, the Yukon 370 gears, and a selection of bearings, shims, seals, etc from Ratech, the cost was around $1,000 in parts. That's about 1/3 to 1/4 of the cost of an 8.8 from Hawks when you figure adding a truetrac, brakes, shipping, etc. Even if you buy tools and have to learn R&P setup it's much cheaper and worth the learning experience.

Rick

instaldave

iTrader: (1)

Can you explain what you mean by "minor clearancing" of the pinion head? Did it require a machine shop? Did the pinion have to be removed?

GeneralDisorder

iTrader: (1)

There's a picture in my thread showing the clearancing of the pinion teeth:

https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/tran...rg-warner.html

GD

TTOP350

iTrader: (8)

bump

GeneralDisorder

iTrader: (1)

Bump for what?

big gear head

I was wondering the same thing.

TTOP350

iTrader: (8)

The answer to the great mystery.
Because its not a sticky. (should be)
The search feature sucks on this site.
I have had several people on FB, who haven't heard about this site, asking about this upgrade and I could never find it quickly when I needed it.

No sinister plot going on, you may all rest easy now :-)

howie099

I would say the new style of cones they sell for the 9 Bolt have to be different material or something. I actually killed a new set of them in under 30 burnouts w/7 time trial passes using DOT street slicks. Yes I modified my 350 a little (cam, heads, exhaust, intake, carb). Still I am for sure under 500 engine HP w/TH350. Plus the cones cost $150 now plus shipping ($200). The TLV diff is right under $400 since I just placed my order yesterday for it. This is a no brainer here. You actually with parts and shipping can do the conversion for like $600. Why go back to the cones? I will post a pic of the new style cones (flat on the small end now) that I wore out to show you. I had my diff done by a guy who rebuild diffs on nitro funny cars and everything was replaced. In miles if you want to know I have like 80 miles on the burned up cones.

I want to get a 9" Ford but the reality is they will be about $3000 buy time you get everything for it installed yourself.

red rock

iTrader: (2)

The 9 bolt rear is an odd rear, used only a few years in third gens. With that said, setting up the spiders with preload is critical. I don't think too many guy's have worked on them, plus with the new cones, the carrier needs to be milled smooth on the bottoms. Install brake cones in the differential case. Measure the distance from differential case mating surface to flat surface on brake cone when it is fully seated. This is done to determine the size brake cone shim required.

Distance Measured In.(mm) Shim Size In.(mm)
1.155-1.162 (29.34-29.51) No shim required
1.163-1.167 (29.54-29.64) .005 (.13)
1.168-1.172 (29.67-29.77) .010 (.25)

ADVANCED SETUP- SOFT FEEL shim each side until all play is removed and cross shaft seats properly in case, then remove .005 to .010 inch of shim.

ADVANCED SETUP- HARD FEEL shim each side until all play is removed and cross shaft seats properly in case and add up to BUT NO MORE THAN .005" of shim per side. This will provide additional preload to the differential that is not possible unless the gears themselves are loaded. RECOMMENDED FOR RACE USE ONLY. If the vehicle is to be street driven on a regular basis it is not recommended to preload the gears.

The optimal amount of shim for Street-Race use is the point where all play is removed from the side gears and the cross shaft and spider gears seat properly in the housing. All one wheel peel will be eliminated and the differential will still operate normally.

howie099

They were preloaded I am pretty sure I leaned more to the hard feel. I couldn't tell you the shim size off hand for the cones but they were super thin. The carrier was modified smooth for the new cones. No one does pretty much work on these B&W diffs. It looks great in the diff nothing broken or damaged just looked like silver soup coming out. Either way for like $450 for the torsen diff that is like the price of 2 cones and don't have to check the cones everyone should switch just the cost of fluid and gaskets are worth it. $30+ per inspection adds up if you race a 9-bolt.

The car only runs 13.3 in 1/4 mile just over a 100 MPH. Pretty sure I can tune it to get in the 12's since I started with 13.95 and have only 7 time trials on it.

scooter

iTrader: (11)

Where did you order? I am thinking about getting that, and my friend may want one too

howie099

scooter

iTrader: (11)

Oh ok. What was your total with shipping to Illinois?

howie099

scooter

iTrader: (11)

The shipping is what is throwing me off from just buying it, lol

RPOL98

I ordered mine from Australia also. it was $660 Australian + $130 Australian for S&H, total $790AUD (Australian dollars), which came out to $620 US dollars, delivered. That was about a year and a half ago, from 9bolt.com.

GeneralDisorder

iTrader: (1)

I got mine from Supa F spares also. No problems thus far. Been a much better experience than the rebuilt cone type I got from 9bolt.com. Should have know that if I wanted it done right I had to do it myself.

GD

howie099

Just to let everyone know if you want the Torsen LSD it is in US dollars w/shipping right under $500 from Supa F Spares . Its pretty much right in line with Detroit Truetrac on pricing. Does anyone know if the 9 bolt Eaton Truetrac for GTOs will fit the old 3rd gen 9 bolts?

TTOP350

iTrader: (8)

Checkout post #45 above

Mongoose

iTrader: (2)

A bit late to the party but this is definitely going on the will do list. I've got a set of cones I sourced from an outfit in Canada some years ago just for this occassion but if this is as easy and as good an upgrade as claimed I'm all in whenever the time comes. I'll probably go ahead and start rounding up parts to have when time comes. How much was actually removed from the pinion when it was "modded"? Would having a machine shop actually shave the pinion be a better choice?

GeneralDisorder

iTrader: (1)

Shaving the pinion like on a lathe? You would want to use a tool-post grinder. The gear teeth present too much of an interrupted cut and it would chatter the cutting tool to death. You don't have to remove much. About 1/8"

And YES the Torsen is AWESOME. Love mine. Been rocking daily it for a couple years now. Clean gear oil.

GD

Mongoose

iTrader: (2)

Good to know. I'm assuming this is a used OE part? Would a new aftermarket unit work as well so long as it were intended for the same car?

GeneralDisorder

iTrader: (1)

The Torsen carriers are a brand new aftermarket unit (They are a Chinese Eaton Tru-Trac knock off). They were actually designed for an Australian market car that happens to use the same diff. The guys at Supa-F Spares have sold enough to the US now to be aware of the cross over. At first they were skeptical but at least a handful of us outside of Australia know about this and have done it now.

GD

kenbob

So I found a Trutrak for a 04-06 GTO it is also a 9 bolt Borg Warner will this fit in the M78 Borg Warner from a third gen and what is the LSD part number you guys used

GeneralDisorder

iTrader: (1)

No. The GTO carrier will not fit.

The part number is TLVL

Call Dave at Supa-F Spares. He will get one right out to you.

GD

Chevy86 IROC-Z

iTrader: (17)

I sent an email to these guys. I never got a response. Seems like it's easier to mod an 9" or 8.8". Cheaper too.

howie099

You can buy the diff for 500 to 600 depending on the currency rate since it come from Australia. The bearing kit is like 100. If you are not changing gears it is cheaper. U can do it for under 600 a new 9" is like 2500 to do..I did mine with a gear swap for under 900 complete.

GeneralDisorder

iTrader: (1)

Done a bunch of these have you? And what was the price of said swap? Lets see some facts and some numbers. Because it certainly doesn't "seem" cheaper or easier (which is relative to how deep your pockets are) to me.

GD

Chevy86 IROC-Z

iTrader: (17)

I live minutes from the Mexican border. Differentials are cheap in the "yonke" (junkyard). Many shops across the border can do the mods to weld up the spring cups and such. But I prefer to help out our country by spending my hard earned money to help the US economy.

GeneralDisorder

iTrader: (1)

You failed to answer any of my questions.

I buy as much American as I can. All the tools used for the job were made in the USA, and I bought all the rebuild parts from Ratech. The diff is from Australia, via China but so are all the other Torsen's on the market for the 9" and the 8.8...... all that stuff comes out of China anymore.

I would MUCH rather have a properly put together 9 bolt than a Mexi-modified 9" that has no factory torque arm provision. Sorry but that just sounds aweful.

GD

Chevy86 IROC-Z

iTrader: (17)

You failed to realize that many Chevy parts are produced in Mexico. I'm not gonna argue. I'm here to learn . And guess what. It's my money and my professor who is a fabrication specialist who happens to live in Mexico. Self taught machinist and repairs trophy trucks for the Baja Races a SCORE. Sorry sir. Its disturbing that because of the word "Mexico", you immediately are being biased. Good day GeneralDisorder. Si no fuera por mi posición de el gobierno de los Estados Unidos, ya verá pasado de lanza. Pero esta bien. Saludos y que tenga un buena noches. Saludos.

GeneralDisorder

iTrader: (1)

You still haven't answered my questions.

GD

Chevy86 IROC-Z

iTrader: (17)

se lo que sea. No necesito a dar te una respuesta. tenga una excelente finde semana. Saludos. Y no estoy hablando mal de ti. Nomas te estoy hablando palabras mexicanas por que se nota que no te merece mi información. Buen día señor.

red rock

iTrader: (2)

[QUOTE=Chevy86 IROC-Z;6367705] Si no fuera por mi posición de el gobierno de los Estados Unidos, ya verá pasado de lanza. Pero esta bien. Saludos y que tenga un buena noches. Saludos. (If it weren't for my position in the United States government, you will see past spear. But it's okay. Greetings and have a good night. Greetings.)

(I know what it is. I don't need to give you an answer. have a great weekend Greetings. And I'm not talking bad about you. I am just speaking Mexican words to you because it shows that you do not deserve my information. Good day sir.) This is a good way to ruin a great thread, you all can have your own opinions, that's fine, but speaking a language most people can't read is uncalled for.

GeneralDisorder

iTrader: (1)

Google translate makes his efforts irrelevant.

Regardless he never answered any of my questions. How many 9" or 8.8 conversions has he done (successfully), and what was their cost? So we can compare options properly.

I've made an entire post about the 9 bolt Torsen install including costs and tools required, etc. You know - to help the Third Gen community. And I can say exactly what it costs and the results are fantastic.

GD

Chevy86 IROC-Z

iTrader: (17)

General Disorder. I've never rebuilt one or had one rebuilt. That's why I said "Seems like it's easier to mod an 9" or 8.8". Cheaper too." I said that because where I live, the savings are drastic across the border. And I don't use google translate. I have a few friends on this site that know me from FB. And they can vouch for me being bilingual. But enough of the back and forth. I see that the Torsen is around $500-$600 dollars. Are they still selling these units? Like I mentioned earlier. They never replied back to me. Trying to weigh my options.

GeneralDisorder

iTrader: (1)

AFAIK they are still selling them. The AUS dollar has dropped since I purchased. $1 US buys $1.57 in AUS. I would expect it to be cheaper now. Also they have a pandemic there too so maybe Supa-F is closed right now. I, and many others here have gone through Dave at Supa-F Spares.

With gears, rebuild kit, TA rear cover, and Torsen I spent about $1k. There's no way you could do a 9" or an 8.8 with a TruTrac, rebuild, gears, all the modifications required for it to fit, the brakes, parking brake cables, installation, etc for $1k. There's a reason these sell for $2500+

GD

Chevy86 IROC-Z

iTrader: (17)

I can see where your coming from. No doubt when doing a complete rebuild. No lie man. My 10 bolt began to make noise not too long ago. Ive rebuilt my engine, dropped the 700R4 5 times, dropped my tank about 6 times. Im an all around guy and have done 99% of repairs on my IROC. So I bought a 9 bolt BW. Not knowing that replacement parts are hard to find and expensive, I bought it for $200. Had new wheel bearings and new seals. Little did i know it was a 2.77. Didnt have the gear ratio tag. So i counted the ring gear teeth and pinion teeth. Now that I know my gear ratio, i was looking into getting a series 3 carrier to go 3.27. But then I stumbled upon this Torsen. I just dont wanna get into having to check constantly if the cones are bottomed out.. Know what I mean?

scooter

iTrader: (11)

You'll never have to do more than just change the fluid periodically with a gear type unit. I'll be getting one of these units eventually to replace my stock 3 series cone carrier. It's done after this go around, I already ground the cones, case and shimmed it once

Chevy86 IROC-Z

iTrader: (17)

Check this out. Found one that has cheaper shipping.

Chevy86 IROC-Z

iTrader: (17)

Now here is the Torque Line brand.