Hello all, I have a 86 with a T5, motor was swapped to a 350 by someone before I bought the car. I�m having issues getting into 1st and Reverse especially when the car is hot. The clutch is extremely stiff to push and engages near the floor. Does it sound like I need a new clutch? Is there anything else I can do for this? Looking for advise, I really don�t know anything about clutches, thanks in advance!

 

Sounds like the fork is improperly assembled to the throwout bearing; which is related in one way or the other to it also being improperly assembled to the ball stud, either as a cause or an effect.



Just take it apart and put it all back together right, and along the way replace anything that's farkled. You can see in the photo how there's a clip that holds the fork to the ball stud, and you can see the socket that the ball is supposed to be inside of. It may not be in there like it belongs.

Make sure it has a pilot bearing or bushing installed in the crank.



This is a bearing. A bushing would look exactly the same size and all that, just made of pressed powdered bronze instead of being a roller bearing.

 

This is great! I�m assuming I basically have to take the transmission out in order to get to this? Makes me think at that point I should just replace the entire clutch?

 

I've never had to re-install the fork on the T.O. bearing after the initial assembly, but I think you should be able to do it while all still assembled. You'll definitely have to remove the slave/piston rod from the fork to allow for it to move freely. -and you might NOT be able to do it. -but I think you can.

....the pilot bushing would of course need to be done with everything disassembled.

 

Even if you could do that sort of thing with it assembled, which I've also "heard" but can't imagine exactly how that would work, I still think it'd be wise to pull it all, put an eyeball on it, and verify from the ground up that it's RIGHT in EVERY detail.

 

Yeah, if im going to take everything apart, I�ll most likely replace everything at the same time to make myself feel better. I�ve been told on another site to replace my slave cylinder, they are easily available so I may give that a go first. Any thoughts or suggestions on that job?

Don�t know what I would do without this site, you guys are amazing!

 

When I replaced the master and slave I got aluminum body upgrades from advance auto parts but I only did it because the slave was leaking. It can be a little difficult to bleed the system but pumping the slave usually works.

If it is not leaking I would leave it alone but up to you.

 

I don�t know if this is normal or not, or make any difference, but the clutch stiffness is the same regardless if the car is running or not.

 

That would be normal: there's no kind of "assist", like there would be for brakes or steering.

 

makes sense. I�m also wondering if it has something to do with the fluid as when it�s cold, I do t seem to have these issues. I�m running royal purple sycromax in my 86 T5. I�ve went down this google rabbit hole before I put this stuff in. Owners manual says Dextron II. Some say gear oil on Pre-88 non WC T5s.

 

is there a way for me to see the fork connection without taking the tranny out? Looks to me like I can leave the bell housing in place, remove driveshaft, cross member, torque arm bracket and the 4 bolts for the transmission? Will I also need to dump the fluid?

 

See post # 8 for info,..............

https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/tran...ift-while.html

 

Thanks, I�ve decided to remove the transmission and most likely replace everything. Been doing some research so I think I�ll be fine but I�m sure I�ll be back tomorrow with more questions lol.

 

Also, I�m assuming i will need to remove the shifter from inside the car before I can get the tranny out?

 

You don't have to "remove" the shifter. It does need to com off of the transmission, but you can just pull it upwards out of the way, Very eeeeeeezzzzy to get tp the bolts with a short 13mm box wrench from below, once the torque arm is out of the way.

You need 6 jack stands. Put the car up on 4 of them. The rear ones need to be under the "frame" right in front of the ends of the control arms. (a flat place... eeezy to spot) Let the rear hang all the way down as low as it will go, against the shock end stops. Then jack it up by the pumpkin about an inch or 2, just enough to lift it off of the shocks, and support it under the axle tubes with the other 2 jack stands. NOT under the pumpkin, NOT under any of the brackets, NOT NOT NOT NOT. Under the axle tubes ONLY. In this configuration there is virtually ZERO tension on the TA; you can move it around at the front with your little finger. Once you have done that, you can and remove the TA bracket, everything else after that is cake.

 

Thanks for all the great advice! I got everything out. Scary part is that I really don�t see a problem with anything. Although I ready don�t know what exactly I�m looking for, nothing looks worn or damaged. I will still feel better about changing everything out when it�s all apart, although I really don�t want to spend the dough. I grabbed everything from new bolts to a Macleod clutch kit w/ pilot bushing, throughout bearing, pressure plate, alignment tool, also grabbed a new clutch fork, pivot bolt, the flywheel was my only issue. Now that I took my old one off it is a centreforce performance flywheel, super heavy. Does the flywheel really matter much? From the local parts store I can get an OE one for cheap, or should I keep my centerforce one and get it machined?

of course my other worry is if I spend all this time and money on the clutch just to put the thing back together and have it do the same thing 😬 time will tell.

 

"Super heavy" isn't real specific.

The stock one for hi-perf 305s (L69 & LB9) was about 16 lbs; the one for family sedan grocery car motors (LG4 & L03) was around 22.

The heavy one was to allow anemic motors with too few CID for the weight of the car and the gearing, to shove the car off the line before the engine died. If your 350 runs good AT ALL, or if the car has 3.42 or better gears, I think you'll be happier with a lighter one.

 

I have a modified 350 with about 330HP, motor was obviously changed (originally an LG4 305) as I still have the original T5, 3:42 gearing. Just found out from the block casting that the 350 engine is from 80-85 which means 2 piece rear main seal and an internal balanced engine so no weights on the flywheel. So when I asked at the parts store I had to specify an 85 305 so the flywheel doesn�t have the balance weight. As apparently 86 and up have a weighted flywheel. So you�re thinking that 85 OEM one would be better for me? Is there a lighter one available from 85 and below (L69 or Lb9)? These parts stores don�t know, you have to give a year and model for them to find anything.

thanks again for all your help. Im just learning and want to do things myself.

 

Another question, do you know if I can get the oil pan off while the tranny is out, without lifting the motor?

 

off, sure but clearance of the k member will only give you an inch so taking the pan out isn't in the cards while the engine stays bolted to the mounts.

 

You should be able to specify one for a 84 Z28 with VIN engine code G. That's L69. That'll get you the light one.

How much does the CF ones weigh? Personally I'd rather have a CF than a pioneer or something, but I'd also rather have a light one. Kind of a dilemma I suppose.

 

hey sofaking, I just picked up a new cast one from local parts store. It is only 16.4 lbs and I weighed the centreforce steel one I had and it was 31 lbs.

the only question I have is there are 2 fairly large dimples in the cast one one one side only, since my engine is internally balanced do you think this would be an issue?

also I�m assuming you recommend I use the lighter cast one instead of resurfacing my heavy steel centreforce one? I�m not running super amounts of horsepower but it is a 330 HP 350 not a 305.

thanks again for all the great advise! You rock!

 

For the older crank pattern, there were only 2 possible weight arrangements: 400 (external balance), and all others (neutral balance). The 400 unbalance was something in the neighborhood of 24 oz-in, directly opposite the #4 (7 & 8) rod journal, which is where the dowel pin is; that is, a weight of 24 oz 1 in from the crank CL, 1 oz 24 in from the CL, or any other combination of oz & in that multiplies out to 24 ish. A common thing to do (speaking strictly from having done it) was to drill about 20 �" holes about �" deep at the edge with the center of them exactly opposite that spot. If it has that bolt pattern, and no holes across from the dowel pin or GIGANTIC weight on the side with the dowel pin, you should be fine.

The CF piece is probably altogether better than the stock replacement, but the only time it would matter, is at REALLY high RPMs. Or of course SFI cert requirements at the track. If those things aren't an issue to you, the16 lb-er will probably be the more satisfactory.

Thanks for the good word.

 

ok Forgive me as I only grasped about 1/2 of that as I am totally just learning 😂 There are 2 1/2 drilled out holes directly across from the dowel pin. I�ll try to attach a picture. I�m assuming those are countering the weight of the dowel pin so therefore I do t need to do anything? 🤷

also the highest RPM, I�ll ever hit is 6,000, no track racing, just a street driver. That said, assuming you still recommend the light one? Of course I know there are pros and cons, just looking for advise from someone who knows much more then me.

 

Those 2 drilled-out places are for balancing. The casting of those things isn't precise, like any casting, so that's how they trimmed it up.

That weight should be fine. You'll probably notice right away that the engine will be more responsive to the gas pedal. It'll surprise you.

When you assemble it, be VERY careful to get the clutch on the flywheel EXACTLY centered. Use actual clutch bolts, with the "shoulder" behind the threads, that acts like a dowel pin to positively locate the clutch. Hold it up so there's no tension on the bolts as you start them, all 6; run them down with your fingers until they're against the clutch; then holding the clutch up, tighten them about a half-turn each, going around the pattern. Keep tightening them a half-turn at a time until they're tight. The disc of course need its centering tool as well: one might come in your clutch kit, if you're buying one. The tool should be able to slide into and out of the disc hub freely when everything is tightened up.

 

thanks for the advise. I also bought all new bolts. Im assuming I should also be using thread locker on all the bolts?

 

Sofaking More questions, sorry. My transmission input shaft has play up and down and side to side. I�m thinking this may be a major problem but I�m really hoping it�s normal?? There is no in and out play, if that matters. 😬

 

No thread locker is necessary.

Play at the tip of the clutch gear is normal. It is held in place after installation by its being inserted in the pilot bearing/bushing. Which is why it's so important that the bushing/bearing be a reasonably tight fit to the clutch gear.

 

aweome! I�m ready to start installing. My clutch came with some instructions on adjustment of the throw out bearing, which I am. It sure I even understand. I did purchase a new clutch fork adjustable pivot bolt. Do you recommend these? My problem is they put another element of human adjustment/possible error lol. What is your procedure for the throw out bearing, pivot ball adjustment?

I currently have all my hydraulics removed completely, so I am unable to use the clutch pedal at all. Should I put the new hydraulics in prior to installing my new clutch?

also I just noticed the hole for the dowel pin is larger on the new clutch. Are they needed? How tight should these be? Should I partly it apart and try to make it tighter? Buy another one? Im worried this could come flying out

 

You don't really need the dowel pin. Most cranks don't even have them, and when they do, it's not a roll pin like that, it's solid, more like the ones for the bell housing except of course smaller. You can see the one in my 400 crank flange photo up there: the 400 needs one to positively assure the FW is on correctly for balancing, but most of the time in a 350, it doesn't even really matter because the FW is neutral balanced anyway. There's usually a hole there but often no pin. Just put the hole in the FW over the hole in the crank.

No adjustment procedure for anything that I know of. It all just bolts together. There's no adjustment on the throwout. I have never in all my days used, needed, or wanted an adjustable ball stud. I can't see how that would be necessary or beneficial if all the parts are the right ones and are all of the correct dimensions.

Sometimes it's easier to get the trans to go into the pilot if you have your assistant push on the clutch to let the disc float freely as you wiggle the trans up in there and tighten the bolts by hand, so yes, install the hydraulics before trying to install the transmission.

 

damn man, I feel like I should be paying you! You�ve been fantastic help. I could hammer that roll pin into the crank but If you think I don�t need it, then I�d rather not have it, to avoid it coming loose or something.

good to know on the adjustable stuff, maybe those directions or geared more for the clutch cable folks. I�ll most likely still use the new ball stud, just set it for the same length as the original.

hopefully I�m finished with the questions but I doubt it, lol I�m new to all this but not scared to take it on. Fingers crossed.

 

so, the new clutch fork and pivot ball I bought are wrong. I don�t see anything major on my pivot ball other than some minor wear, and nothing noticeable on the fork . Do you recommend I replace the clutch fork and ball with new when doing this or just reuse the existing?

 

I've never replaced one that didn't have visual wear or damage or bent and haven't had any problems. Other may advise to change them but they will work.

 

Those are REAL SIMPLE parts. Not alot to em really.

IMO if you can't SEE any sign of fornication, they're not fornicated, and therefore are suitable for re-use.

Only reason to do otherwise is, if you have some reason to suspect that they aren't the right ones for your vehicle. Which after 30-some-odd years of Bozhye only knows what being done by no telling how many lop-eared yutzes from the back country, is something that cannot be taken lightly. I'm not sure these days how to get GUARANTEED RIGHT replacements.

 

Again, thank you for taking the time to share your knowledge. It�s because of people like you that I felt the comfort to tackle a project like this, being only a dumb backyard mechanic with basic tools. I�m hoping this thread will help others like me in the future. I just started the car and tried the clutch to make sure it worked forward and backward. All is fantastic, clutch pedal is much easier and it goes in all gears so far without any grinding or issues!

This clutch project opened a can of worms that made me go down the rabbit hole of fixing more things as i got deeper down. I also replaced my 2 piece rear main seal, oil pan gasket converted to a one piece felpro gasket and also a new clutch master and slave cylinder.

all these other repairs I was able to accomplish Because of sofkingdom and a couple others that generously donate their knowledge on other threads in this forum. I am extremely grateful and wIll gladly pay it forward to help others all I can.

🍻 my friends!

 

Thanks again for the kind words.

Is the car all back together and working again? Run into any snags? How did it turn out?

 

Funny you shoulda ask, I was super stoked about the job until I took the car for a drive. Had a vibration on decel that I didn�t have before, I got underneath and had a look to notice that my header on the passenger side appears to be touching the frame. it was very close before but it definitely is closer of not touching now. I had the motor mounts disconnected and the engine lifted to remove my oil pan. I didn�t think the engine could shift after being re-fastened back to the motor mounts. All I can think to do is loosen the motor mount bolt lbs and try to pry it over. Super stressed that something is wrong with the clutch but I really think it may just be the header. Damn 🤬

 

Funny you shoulda ask, I was super stoked about the job until I took the car for a drive. Had a vibration on decel that I didn�t have before, I got underneath and had a look to notice that my header on the passenger side appears to be touching the frame. it was very close before but it definitely is closer of not touching now. I had the motor mounts disconnected and the engine lifted to remove my oil pan. I didn�t think the engine could shift after being re-fastened back to the motor mounts. All I can think to do is loosen the motor mount bolt lbs and try to pry it over. Super stressed that something is wrong with the clutch but I really think it may just be the header. Damn 🤬

 

Clutch work right?

 

I think so but I�m not 100% sure as when I was out on my first drive I thought something was wrong with the clutch due to the vibration and noises, that I came right back and am going to see what I can do about the header situation.

 

damn, I think I have the header vibration figured but for some reason I have a stumble/ studder now like the car is missing but it isn�t. Could that be clutch / balance related or flywheel? I went from Pumped to discouraged. The engine is really jumping around

 

Probably not. More likely, something got disturbed about the engine while working on it. Dist cap hit the firewall for example. Any number of oddball things like that are vulnerable when the engine is moved around.

 

Sofa beat me to it, you picked up the engine. Lotsa stuff could have gone out of place. That's much more likely than something like a grossly out of balance flywheel.

 

yup, you guys are right. After much head scratching it was just a so ark plug wire. It was still
connected but was pulled off the plug tip. Must have ad too much tension on it while lifting the engine.

I think everything is good now!

 

Nice job and congratulations on a self done repair

 

ive only known this car to have a super stiff pedal and a clutch that did not release until very close to the floor. Not sure what the problem was exactly but now the pedal is 1/2 the effort to push and it releases much higher, almost near the top. So basically i�m
now exactly opposite of before. Everything seems to work well, so i think I can call it a success. Even seemed to have fixed a real seal or oil pan drip while I was at it.

thanks again everyone, hope this detailed thread will assist other clutch novices.