My torque converter, from what I can tell, is SHOT...thing kicks in and out of lock like a MOTHER between like 38 and 44 mph...and when I let off the gas in this range, something in the drivetrain kicks.. Of course, my tranny isn't in top shape either, so I'm not sure what to attribute that to..either way, they're both gonna get replaced/rebuilt. The TC is going first...I want to buy a high stall one because I've heard they can make a BIG difference at the strip. What kind of stall would you guys recommend? My car's a 3.1, all stock so far, except for $5.50 intake mods and the Dynomax Super Turbo exhaust I've got coming...(I figure it'll be in in a week and a half or less.) I have NO clue about stall, what it is, etc etc etc, so any help here's appreciated. ALL I know is you've got to match up your engine RPMs to the T.C.'s stall for the best launch...right? Thanks guys.

 

Doesn't sound like the torque convertor. I take it you've heard of the TCC, torque convertor clutch? Under light load, going up a hill above 35 mph, the TCC can lock and unlock repeatedly... it's the way the trans was built. You can install a TCC delay switch, push on the gas harder, pull the stick back into third, or put your left foot lightly on the brake (enough to make the brake lights come on, but not enough to slow the car) to keep the TCC disengaged.

If it's doing it on flat roads, the brake light switch on your brake pedal might be out of alignment. I think this is what's going on with my car. The TCC will lock/unlock when I'm going on a straight road, if I pull the brake pedal towards me with my foot (opposite direction of normal braking), the TCC stays in lock. But I've been too lazy to go get a new switch for it.

Also, the TPS affects lockup. You have a non-adjustable (or, to the computer, self-adjusting) TPS, so you can't adjust it, but maybe it's shot?

 

I agree with TomP, its probably the TPS. My dads 85 Pontiac 6000 (with a 2.8 but different tranny) has a bad TPS in it and it does the same thing at about the same speed.

 

You should not be in Overdrive at that speed. You are going to slow. Most owners manuals with 700r4 trans cars will state that you should be doing aleast 40-50 mph (Some cars 40mph, some 45mph, some cars 50 mph. It depends on what rear end gears you have conbined with tire diameter. Your combination is probably 50mph. I'm guessing you have 3.23's with 25.7 in. tires) minimum speed before you go into overdrive and lock the converter, and then you should remain above that speed. If you are flucuating your speed up and down then you should remain in 3rd. also if ever towing or carrying a heavy load, you should remain in 3rd as well.

 

Nixon1 I would say everyting is running perfect on your TC, it's just that your not smooth enough on the throttle. If I'm real smooth and light on the throttle, I can maintain 40 mph in over drive. The kicking sound your hearing is the slack of the drive shaft as you get back on the gas in over drive. In our cars overdrive is noticable compared to cars of today and your gears in the back are 3.23. Just takes some getting use to but if you get good you will see a big difference in your gas mileage the sooner and longer you can keep it in over drive.

 

Cough, bullcrap, cough...lol. There's no lower speed limit for overdrive...lol.. My owner's manual says to drive in Overdrive all the time unless you're in special driving conditions. It's automatic overdrive as well..doesn't engage until...erm...well, somewhere between 40 and 45..hard to differentiate it and the torque converter. BTW, I DO remain in third when I fluctuate my speed...it KILLS my gas mileage but I do it cause I like to hear my engine. As far as being not very smooth on the pedal, I'm inclined to agree. Still though, if I hover right about 40..I can be perfectly even on the throttle and the car still kicks/jerks/does not so cool things.. Today I was holding the car a steady 38 or 40 mph and the TCC went off and on like CRAZY...it was a totally flat road and I was in Drive not Overdrive...every second or less it was locking and unlocking..I sped up to 45 to get rid of it. And about the TPS, I dunno..haven't thrown a TPS code ever but who knows, it could be a problem...

 

Extra question..I assumed the TCC was PART of the torque converter....can it be replaced separately?

 

Ok, just gotta bring this post to the top because I'd hate to repost. I know we've gone off on a tech tangent here, but back to the main issue...WHAT KIND OF STALL DO I NEED FOR MY CAR? I have no idea....and do any of you recommend any particular brand converters? I've heard they're pretty much all the same unless you're making wicked power or you're a total idiot.

 

Do you want a performance drag strip converter that stalls high??? well 2000 rpm stall is good for that, open up summit and order. If you just wanting to replace the one you have now with stock, go to a tranny shop and buy one. I don't thing there is a dam thing wrong with you converter the way you describe it.

 

Thanks...and yeah, I wanna replace it with a drag converter. The way I see it, my tranny is getting done when I get the money(which'll probably be like 5 years.. ) ...and while that'll be getting done, I might as well put a drag converter in since the tranny is getting a TransGo shift kit. So 2,000 huh?

 

You will hate driving it in traffic in the city but when you have to race somebody it will be fun. WATCH out for the jerk when it comes in at 2000. LOL

 

Heh.. Sounds just fine with me. My grandpa had an interesting idea, something he did to his old 2.8 Buick....he wired up a TCC lock/unlock switch...I guess he cut the wiring for the automatic lock and unlock and wired it to a switch somewhere in his dash...so when he was stop and go around city, it wouldn't bother him....now I thought this was a pretty d*mn cool idea myself...it should be possible on this car, after all it's only a simple electrical on/off signal right? I think I should be able to keep my gas mileage decent as long as I use that switch right..

 

Good luck Idiot, Can't say I didn't try to help. Call any tranny shop.

 

Come on guys lets not call each other names! Nixon1 I don't think you have a problem with your TPS OR your TC. Have you ever replace your pick up coil inside your distuator. Sometimes the lock up can act funny because of an igntion systemnot picking up the right timing. Happen to me and my overdrive would jerk now its clear. DOES your tach ever bounch?? If it does it becuase of the pick up coil. Personally I would replace it and not worry about anything until something really goes wrong.

 

Hey AF, I didn't mean to come off harsh...I'm not trying to be a ******** or anything I'm just saying I don't see how GM would publish a big dummy's manual saying to drive in OD all the time and have it labeled Automatic OD and everything if you shouldn't engage it unto so and so speed. But all that's beside the point, I DON'T drive in it all the time, hardly ever as a matter of fact, so who cares. No hard feelings, man...I know you were trying to help. There aren't enough of us third gen V-6ers who actually CARE about our cars around here...we gotta keep unified ya know? Power to the people and all that crap!

Alright now, Ryan, I haven't TOUCHED the distributor period. I plan to buy a new cap and rotor soon, might as well for the money and another part sticker (yeah, laugh all ya want). Where is the pickup coil exactly, and is this a "do it yourself even if you're a total idiot" job?
BTW, My tach doesn't work at all. It says I idle at like 3,000 on a warm engine and as soon as I TAP the pedal lightly, it jumps to past 7 grand easy.

 

You have to take the distruator apart by taking off the gear on the bottom. That gear has a "roll" pin you have to knock out with a punch. Take the shaft out, slide the old pick up coil off and put on the new one then put the gear back on and the knock out pin back in with a hammer and the punch. Simple if you use your head, the hard part is puting the sucker back in and setting the timing. Make sure you mark some how on the engine which way and where the rotor was pointing and put the whole thing back in the way you found it and set the timing like normal.

 

Forgot something.

Yes you need a ignition module and pick up coil. After you get all done rebuilding your distruator you will notice the difference and your tranny problems should go away and your tach will work.

 

Funny to think how the distributor can affect the gauges and the transmission..goes to show much much different systems are integrated on cars.. I'll definitely look into this because not having a tach is terribly irritating... I was thinking it was just my instrument cluster going out. (Well it is, but the tach thing too..oil psi gauge is really jumpy and the speedo sticks)

 

You might want to check the ground on the dash too. But yeah the distruator does a lot and EVERY body on the board recomends rebuilding it ever so many thousand miles.

 

I assume the dash's ground is under the hood/on the firewall somewhere?

 

Not sure should be behind the dash but I don't have my factory manual in front of me.

 

Alright...thanks man. It'd be nice to know what RPMs I idle at, shift at from 1 to 2 with WOT, and what to launch from...

 

Nixon, my appologises to you. The cough ,cough thing kind of ticked me off, but my saying idiot was out of line.

The 700r4 with lock- up overdrive is great on gas mileage, but if you are driving near the lock and unlock range, disregard what you manual may say about it being the normal operating position. What happens when the lock-up clutch engages is that material comes off the clutch. Every excessive disengage and engage that happens you are causing excessive wear. This is why it is best to stay in 3rd at that speed.

I have a '89 Chevy 1/2ton work truck- lowered but built to take a 3000lb load(frame has been beefed, 4-whl disc., 300hp, ford 9"rearend with 3.70's) This truck when through 4 stock transmissions under warrantee. When I had to finally buy one myself I put a fully built unit into it and that lastest almost as long as the 4 stock ones combined (3 Years). I presently have a Non-lockup 700r4 in it (Non-lockup converter as well). This trans has been in the truck and abused for just over five years and is running strong. With all of the weight I carry in it I can still jam it from 4th to 3rd to 4th all day long with out a worry about the converter going haywire.

 

Might as well check it out with a digital meter. While yo'ure at it, check out the brake switch too. The TCC solenoid is replaceable separately. Ever drop the trans pan? Do you remember a squarish looking thing with a copper center near the front of the trans? That's the TCC solenoid. It's got wires running from it to the TCC connector, over the tranny's valve body, from the front of the inside of the trans to the back driver's side (of the inside of the trans).

However, when a TCC solenoid goes bad, it usually stays locked, and won't unlock- this will cause the car to stall when it comes to a stop. The car stalls, fluid pressure in the trans goes to zero, the TCC unlocks, you start the car, drive again, once you go over 40 the TCC solenoid engages, you come to a stop, and it stalls.

Your grandfather's idea of rigging up a switch isn't bad at all! You actually already have a switch, though... if you press on the brake lightly with your left foot, the TCC solenoid won't engage- and if it's engaged, it'll disengage. Sometimes I'll do this just to pass someone, if we're going "almost" the same speed. If you don't want to hack up your wiring, you can buy a device that will keep you out of lockup... they're called a TCC Delay... Crane used to make one. They usually come programmed into an aftermarket comptuer chip- another good reason for burning our own chips!

Have you asked this on the trans forum yet?

 

I've only asked it on this forum so far, Tom. I'm familiar with most of you guys, so I trust you more than a bunch of V8 strangers on the Trans forum. Now, I've tried giving it a bit of brake while going, and as far as I can tell, there's no effect..it doesn't unlock. Now AF, if I'm correct, Drive goes through 1st, 2nd, and 3rd gear..while Overdrive is basically our 4th gear, right? Is the Torque Converter only supposed to lock in Overdrive? Because I think it's locking in 3rd gear on my car. I have a 1st shift, a 2nd shift, a 3rd shift, and then a kick, not a shift, with RPM loss. This explains why I thought you were crazy earlier, if the TCC is SUPPOSED to engage in Overdrive and not Drive... I see what you're saying now and I get your point..thanks man. Also, the TCC tends to lock and unlock MORE in Drive than in Overdrive...which is why, if it starts going crazy, I shift it to try to smooth things out....it's on a real hair trigger...

 

Ok, disregard the last part about the brake test. The TCC will disengage, but only as long as the brake pedal is depressed..if I let go of the brake, it locks again.

 

Actually the V8 guys are very knowledgable, a few have rebuilt their own transmissions, and a few work on transmissions for a living. One guy, transfixleo, has a v6, and I'm a common poster in there, too.

The TCC can enter lockup in 2nd gear! The only gear it can't lock up in is first, because it's "fluidically impossible"... the valves can't open that way. I'm starting to think Ryan has the best idea.. your transmission sounds 100% normal. It could just be that your engine has somehow gotten less powerful (weak ignition), and it's confusing the transmission, and causing it to engage/disengage the TCC all the time.

Try posting this in the Trans forum, or do a search... not sure what you'd search for other than "TCC"... maybe "TCC locks/unlocks all the damn time"? Oh, and this is pretty recent, right? Or has the car always done this?

 

I'm sure the V-8 guys are great but I'm loyal to this board specifically. I asked my local shop for an estimate on a distributor rebuild and installation...they said they don't rebuild, they buy new ones, and told me $300.. Sounds high to me considering I can get a hi. perf for, I dunno, $150? I'll be slowly tweaking my ignition bit my bit. And yes, the car's been doing this since the day I got it, but it's been acting up more lately.

Soon installing(ignition) : MSD Coil & Mallory(?) Cap and Rotor

Although I might just buy an entirely new distributor...

 

Don't bother buying a MSD coil like the GM Blaster or the SS coil because they only produce the same voltage as the AC Delco one that you have now, they are just over price because they say MSD on them, they don't have any more windings. If you want more voltage go to one of their Blaster 2 OR 3 coils and custom wire it, then you will have something. A Borg Warner is perfect for your car, no need to spend $$ on a roter with a fancy name on it. The Borg Warner is BRASS just like the one with the fancy name on it.

They don't make an aftermarket distributor for the v6 but getting a entirely new distributor might be a good idea becuase the bushing sometimes wear out, most people just rebuild them. Because the only hard part is the pick up coil, the rest is "SEE PART" "TAKE PART OFF" "PUT NEW PART ON"

Maybe if you took the distributor off somebody could rebuild it for you on the boards if you took it to them if they lived close by.

 

REALLY...well, ain't that a bitch. So the Blaster 2's or 3's have to be custom wired? Argh. Ok so basically for my cap and rotor, look for any old brand with brass terminals.. I'll check Autozone out..I hear they have some sort of generic cap & rotor set in blue (SCORE)...

 

I guess that "WELLS" crap from autozone is ok but Borg Warner is better or ACdelco. NOT custom wired but you have to change the connecters to eyelet crip ons.

You put the white and black on the negative terminal and the pink wires on the positive terminal and your done.

Now if you have 2 whites instead of white and black the wireing pattern is the same with just both whites on the negitive terminal.

 

Gotcha. Thanks again.