Hello Everyone.

I am fairly new to the board, but the second I started reading I knew this is where I needed to be when it came to my camaro.

Please bear with me. This is gonna be a long ramble.

My current camaro is the second 3rd gen I have owned and I recently have started having a few problems with it. Before I describe the plan for repair I will say what the problem is.

(oh, and I have a 2.8 RS that I believe is mostly stock)

Occasionally (totally random) the car will die (or even if I shut it off and don't allow enough time for it to cool before restarting) and when I go to restart the car will start, but imediatly die. I can sit on the damn gas pedal to try and rev up the rpms and it does not help at all. Anytime I get to a stoplight or anything I have to keep the RPMs at 10,000 just to keep the car from dieing.

(It usually idles pretty smooth, but occasionally trips on itself)

The thing that is puzzling is that the car actually starts. It just won't stay going, and is anything but a clean start. It is a lot of chugging then it dies. If I let the car sit for around an hour or so (give or take) it will fire right up and you would swear there was never a problem.

I have taken it to the mechanic and he can't find a problem. He checked the codes and everything came back ok. He told me there was no problem.

I have done about 90% of TomP's major tuneup. The only two things I have not done is the PCV Valve and the TV Cable. (well, and the Intake and Throttle Body Cleaner for Fuel Injected Engines) I have also recently replaced the alternator, the battery, and fixed an exhaust leak on the manifold (passenger side) which had melted the starter and the positive battery cable. I also replaced the wiring harness for the alternator when I did the starter and positive cable.

Anyway, Tomorrow I am going to go to my local autozone and buy a new catalytic converter, a pcv valve, an ignition module, a fuel pump, and a pick-up coil. (I am also thinking about getting an EGR Valve) and what I would like to know is... Will this fix the problem? I am really frustrated with the issue that no one can trace so I am attempting to just replace everything that I believe could cause an issue like this.

The other question I have is... is there anyway to do the fuel pump without dropping the axle? That is gonna suck so bad. If there is no other way I may wait on it and just pay my mechanic to do it when I have him do the timing chain (a reccomendation I found on this board that may be usefull)

Anyway, I probably gave way to much information here, but I wanted to make sure everyone knew the steps that I have taken, and am planning to take in order to give the best advice.

Thanks everyone.

I will post pictures of the car, and the work if anyone wants.

 

Stalling while driving is usually the module. Make sure it comes with di-electric grease or better yet buy a tube. You'll use it a lot.

 

I know I am going to sound incredibly stupid, but can you elaborate a bit? I am really not car savy at all, and am totally fronting like I know what I am doing. I have my little Chilton book for my car and with that and a friend I am assuming I can do all this and perhaps learn a bit about my car in the process.

(Which is why I don't want to do the fuel pump, seems to be way over my head at this point, and may be worth paying a professional for)

 

Well... We did a lot of the work today.

We removed the EGR Valve and tested it (passed) and we also removed the PCV Valve (since it had never been done before) and it was anything but clean so that is getting replaced tomorrow.

We removed the ignition module, and went to remove the pick up coil and realized the chilton explained things in a way that is not consistent with my car at all. Anyway, we had to remove the entire distributer and still have not found a way to take out that coil. I guess we will take it with us to autozone in the morn and make them do it.

Anyway, our current plan is to replace the ignition module, pick up coil, and pcv valve. (heh, turned out to be a smaller job then planned huh?)

We decided against doing the catalytic converter for now to see if the other things take care of the issue. I want to visit a shop and get the super turbo dynomax cat-back this weekend, so I will just get it done then.

As for the fuel pump... looks like that is doomed to wait for my mechanic. There is no way I am gonna drop the entire rear axle. I want to have a warranty on all that.

 

CAUTION! THIS IS LONG


I'm gonna tell you the same thing I told another guy on a different post. Try starting the car. go under your hood with the engine running and wiggle the 2-prong harness that goes to your module which is located at the base of the distributor cap. If you don't know what a distributor is, it's that thing at the back with all those little wires arranged in a circle pattern with one in the middle. (7 wires total) Look towards the bottom of the distributor cap and you will see some wires coming out of the side facing towards the passenger side. there should be a 2-wire harness and a 4-wire harness right next to it. wiggle the one with the 2 wires. if the car dies, that's your problem. weak/worn module harness. now here's the thing. in order to get a new one you either: A. have to go to the junkyard and cut one off of a car with the same engine as yours and hope it works. B. go to the dealer and show him the harness and pay way too much to have him order it. C. go to Pep Girls (pep boys) and look in their "HELP!" section. You're probably gonna be there a while looking for it. I sat in front of that stupid rack for a half an hour. The package more than likely WILL NOT say "module harness". I think it says "temp sensor harness" or something like that. Take your old harness with you and examine it VERY CLOSELY. Rape that sucker with your eyes. harnesses sometimes look the same but, upon closer inspection they are not. LOOK INSIDE YOUR OLD ONE, LOOK AT IT FROM THE SIDES, THE FRONT, THE BACK, UP, DOWN, ASK IT OUT FOR DINNER AND A MOVIE....OK maybe not that far but, you get the idea. wire color doesn't matter. so long as that harness is an exact match. you are looking at shape not color. Find yourself a match and go home. BE SURE THAT BEFORE YOU CUT THE WIRES TO YOUR OLD HARNESS, YOU MARK WHICH ONE IS WHICH. you can mark it F for front and R for rear so you know which one sat more towards the front of the car. or if you're looking at it dead on maybe use L fore left and R for right. Hell draw yourself a little diagram with colors and stuff. it's important that you not get those wires mixed up. you could pop your module or do something worse. It might be a good idea to keep the old harness until the repair is complete so you can look at it and say, "ok pink was on the left of the old harness and the new harness is blue on the left so i'll connect the new blue to old pink." I know I'm babbling but, I want to make sure you have absolutley no question as to how to re-attach the new harness. Especially after you said you were frontin with your Chiltons. Don't be embarassed to have a Chilton's ... I have one for every car I have ever worked on. They come in handy for specs and procedures and shortcuts and troubleshooting and codes and so on and so on.

Any questions?

warlord6six6@comcast.net

 

Big help. Thanks a lot. I will keep you updated.

 

SYM, welcome to the boards! With that sentence above, I completely agree with mvftw. Your car's showing the classic sign of ignition module failure- works great when cold, takes a crap when it heats up.

Removal of the pick up coil is as follows: Yank the distributor. Remove the roll-pin from teh distributor gear with a hammer and punch. Slide the center shaft all the way out. Pry the retainer clip off the distributor's top (wear safety goggles those suckers fly across the room pretty damn fast!!), the pickup coil will come off. A new retainer will come with the new pickup coil.

Here's two messages to help you out:

https://www.thirdgen.org/techbb2/sho...threadid=61335
https://www.thirdgen.org/techbb2/sho...threadid=86197

warlord6 is right about how to find connectors at Pep Boys. The parts counter morons won't show them in their computer, which somehow means they don't exist. GM re-used connectors for many applications; if it looks like the same one, it probably is. I replaced a knock sensor connector on a front wheel drive 2.8 a-body, it was labeled as an a/c pressure switch connector.

 

Well... Here is where I am at.

I took the entire distributer to autozone with me this morning and they said whoa, your **** is ****ed up. They told me the entire unit should be replaced if I plan to keep the car.

(Something about the magnet being all cracked on it)

Anyway, I bit the bullet and bought a new one with a lifetime warranty and also a catalytic converter. We installed the new distributer and I noticed a huge response difference even before we ever moved the car. I figured it a good call my autozone and then we adjusted the timing to the factory default and replaced the pcv valve and went for a test drive.

Man, the camaro has never ran that bad. It was backfiring everywhere and kept dieing. (of course the good news is that the old problem was obviously fixed by the fact that I was able to restart the car after it died)

We came back and yanked the cap/rotor/wires and replaced them with new ones hoping it would help, and now the car won't start.

From what I can figure the firing order in the chilton is wrong. Yea... I am..

F-U-K-T

I have no idea what the firing order should be, and I can't find it online. It is only 36 combinations right? Man. It is not my day. Anyway, if anyone else with a 2.8 RS could reply and let me know the firing order I would really appreciate it.

(Man, I reread this thread and you can really tell I am such a novice)

Thanks for all the help everyone has been giving me.

 

Update:

Figured out the firing order. (Chilton was close, just no cigar) Now we are off to the store for beer so we can then weld on the new catalytic converter.

Oh... and I have pictures

Soon...

 

Ok, we welded on the new cat and everything is good. The car is running so well. Better then ever actually. We double checked the timing and noticed an exhaust leak on the drivers side. Seems a doughnut went bad, so we are replacing that in the morning and calling this project complete.

I will probably post a few pictures either Sun or Mon.

Thanks everyone for all the help you have been in this process. I have really learned a lot.

 

Yes you have and you will never stop learning. I am having a problem now (see post named "I need help. Backfire through throttle body and...." ) This is my third, 3rd gen and I am still finding all sorts of cool ways for these things to get F/U/C/K/E/D UP!!! My fourth 3rd gen is a 91 RS. I know what the problem is on that...it needs a motor. I just got one too. Now I need to get my grubby hands on a hoist. See that's an easy problem. The third 3rd gen with the 2.8L now that's hard. I even have a couple people confused already. Nice huh?! No cracks in the combustion chambers and timing is set. yet it backfires through the TB. You tell me. So I might even go to the extenet as to ((GULP)) remove the friggin heads.....AGAINNNNNNN!!! and re-inspect....AGAINNNN!!! But, I don't see why I should when a compression test showed me 120 all the way around. Now people say that 120 is low but, the engine (even when I first got my new motor) always had 120 per cyl. If you think that's low you should see compression on a olds 5.0L (307) 80 psi. yup that's it. No wonder those things suck ***. But, anyways. Take the warlord challenge and look for my post...I'm hungry so I'm gonna go eat stuff. Thank you and good day....I SAID GOOD DAY!!!

 

Glad to hear you've got the problem pretty well taken care of!! And I'm glad to hear it wasn't the fuel pump

 

What is it about welding and beer? I find the same thing, when I weld I like to have a beer handy. Must have something to do with getting rid of the metallic taste from welding fumes. . .

And glad to hear the car is running better, congrat's.

RBob.