Doward

Just as soon as I get another oil pan... we'll be back in business!

funstick

hurry up and get that pan. i wqant to start working on v0.2 of that chip

Lee7

well, i called them up again today and i talked to this Little Joe guy, he told me that all they do for custom cranks is Billet Steel, and it would be $2150

Im gonna call up SCAT cranks and see what they charge, and go from there.

vortex

someone call the pentagon, this thread's been hijacked... again.
Wasn't someone supposed to hook Doward up with a pan before i drive as-is?

Project: 85 2.8 bird

:sillylol: :sillylol: :sillylol:

sorry, couldn't resist

Lee7

yeah, I am willing to send Doward my old oil pan for free (as long as he pays shipping), he just needs to get on AIM so I can get all the info needed to ship it.

He sent me a PM to me with his AIM name, i added him but he wasnt on, and has not tryed to contact me since.

Lee7

Also, Doward, when and if you decided to get some headers for your turbo setup, these look like they would work well:



V6 SPRINT MANIFOLD SET WITH HEAT COATING
Sprint manifolds are sand mandrel bent from heavy gauge steel with flame cut flanges. The manifolds fit exactly to your cylinder head ports while the improved header design and enlarged pipes give smooth power and torque gains throughout the RPM band. Both manifolds are heat coated inside and out, allowing the removal of your factory heat shields. This high tech coating reduces underhood temperatures, enhances flow and increases life and durability. Does not include mounting hardware.

They are $549.00 from www.fierostore.com

Doward

Lee7's shipping the oil pan tomorrow... I should have it Monday-ish. Don't forget to PM Vortex with the tracking info!

Once that arrives, Vortex and I are going to re run the oil return line in 3/4" or 5/8" (whichever will fit). We'll work from there...

Next week guys! Turbo v 1.1!

2_point8_boy

Where you been Doward...we're all waiting on the news to see whether it runs again or not...get off your lazy butt and let us know.

vortex

I'm waiting for Lee7 to PM me with a tracking number of the oil pan.. you said you'd send it... got a tracking number for us?

TechSmurf

And the exhaust manifold is finally off! The project moves on. Next, soaking driver's side Y-pipe bolts in pb blaster and trying to disconnect it without snapping them! Whee! Pipe-cutter to the Y-pipe just after the O2 sensor, a little welding to cap it off, a chop to the passenger side of the pipe, and a flange... and the Y-pipe portion of the project is complete (week)

Next, the new custom manifold.... muahaha...

Spare time project: Mounting brackets from outer fog light mount holes to intercooler mount points.. which on one axis line up perfectly. Praise the Fbody ***! Plus cuts to the bumper to allow intercooler flow.

Updates as major progress occurs. Pics if I ever see a digital camera.

EDIT: HOLY.. .. I just got word the wastegate is in the mail! YES!@! THE FINAL MECHANICAL PART! WOO!

Lee7

i was waiting for doward to get on aim so i could tell him i cant find it.

I looked everywhere outside and in my garage, i think my uncle may have threw it away when i pulled the engine and told him i dont need it.

vortex

oh sodding hell... thats it.. we're going to the junkyard and finishing this...

Doward

PIcking up the pan today...

Gonna tap that pan!

vortex

about bleeding time right?

and we're proud to say we've upgraded from that cheesy PVC.. we now have Duct tape and cardboard.. that should hold the boost in better.

progress is slowly but surely.. but we are definitely keeping with the progress...

Doward

Yes to the progress... need more hours in a day though. Hopefully, no more oil blow by!

Doward

Actually guys, the next 'upgrade' will be to run normal metal piping for the intake. Be better for mounting the BOV....

Project: 85 2.8 bird

I shall mourn the loss of teh mighty pvc

Ryan_Alswede

Dyno results and track time slips?? take pic or scan them in.

Doward

Not yet... check the sig to see latest track data, without the turbo.

Burning oil, with a stuttering coil, I walked a 16.7 second Dodge Truck (buddy's) with ease. Not sure, but thinking 15's without tuning her yet....

We'll know after Vortex adn I get the oil pan set up, the oil return line fixed, and run again.

Oh yeah, Vortex - discussing the turbo setup with a friend online, and he expressed concern about starving the engine of oil with the T at the sending unit. Seemed to think that we could be pulling most of the oil from the pump, into the turbo, and straight to the pan.

Wouldn't be a bad idea to pop off a valve cover, and just be certain that oil is flowing through the entire block, don't you think?

Purple Monkey

Interesting usage of dsm parts...
you should put some kind of regulator on the oil supply, 80 lb of pressure will just blow out the seals. about 20 would be more than adequate.

BTW I have an old 14b turbo, it needs to be rebuilt but all of the non replacement parts are perfect.

I'm also going to have a 1g bov to sell pretty soon as I am getting an HKS valve.


I find all of this interesting as I traded a v6 firebird for my talon.

Doward

Hmm... wonder what you'd want for the 14b? twins would go nice on the 354 '77 Bird.

We're planning on re-doing the oil return, and then if that doesn't fix it, regulate the oil to the turbo... thanks man!

Purple Monkey

ya, my Talon has a regulated oil tap on the head that feeds the turbo, too much oil pressure can cause the turbo to smoke and dump oil into the intake badly. Just not meant to have that much pressure in it. and I'm pretty sure a 2.8 runs higher pressure than mine.

I'd probably only want like 60$ for the old 14b. it just needs new seals as it had 144K on it, amazingly has very little shaft play. Just a rebuild kit and a balance.

Should see the new 16g I have it's bad, lets me pull 17# no problem. would probably be pretty badass on a 2.8.

I didn't read the whole thing, what kind of boost control do you have on there?

The_Raven

What size feed line are you using to the turbo?

I have a -4 braided line feeding my turbo, and have NO engine oil starvation problems. I am using a high flow oil pump. I don't think you would be starving the engine, even if you were using a stock good working oil pump, as there seems to be plenty of flow even in that case.

I know of quite a few people with 2nd generation 2.8s and 3.1s that have turbocharged them, Teed (there is no good way to write that. LOL) at the oil pressure sender, with no oil starvation issues.

Still a good idea to check.

Oil drain back is the biggest issue when it comes to oil pushing through the seals, if the drain back is too restrictive, then the oil will follow the path of least resitance, through the seals.

I would do lots of checking on oil flow to the turbo BEFORE attempting any restricting of the oil feed to the turbo, oil starvation of the turbo will definatly shorten it's life.

A lot of people will reccomend placing the oil pressure sender at the fitting at the turbo, this will be a better indication of oil pressure at the turbo, if you wanted you could place a second sensor at this point and wire it to a separate gauge and compare any differences in pressure between engine oil and turbo feed oil.

funstick

hmm 3/16 feed is big enough unless your feeding a gaint t76 or something

The_Raven

Generally I don't see anything less than 1/4" (-4) feeding even small turbos, such as a T25, like what was stock on my Sunbird, the T3 I have on my Jimmy, had a 1/4" feed attached to it. It's not pressure you really need, but more flow, yes both are important, but volumn (flow) will be key to saving the bushings in the turbo, pressure just happens, you know when you try and force a lot of fluid through a small oriface, pressure is created.

Generally on larger turbos, especially those that are used for drag racing you will see -6 (3/8") to -8 (1/2") feed lines and much much larger drain back hoses, -10 (5/8", this is what I am using) to -16 (1").

funstick

the flip side to that is in the event of turbo bearing failure you are left without enough restriction in the feed line to keep the engine oiled. fyi the orrifice in the turbo bearing is 1/16. at least in my turbo. for larger turbos yes they do need more oil but for the t3 im using i have more then sufficient flow. my 3/16 lines flows 2x the actual oil cunsumption per hr of the turbo bearing.

vortex

Hey... Doward here.

This is NOT a shameless bump to the top. Believe me.

Pulled the turbo out, working on the 5/8th (that's what we decided) oil return line. Haven't actually gotten the pan out yet... I'm actually NOT wanting to do it. But what the hell... too late to turn back now!

Gonna see if Vortex wants to tap that new oil pan... he's needin' to tap something anyway...

:lala: :lala:

Anyway... pizza hut food went down. More work to be done... where's the cold ones???

vortex

Doward again....


*()&!#^)*&!@#^)*@&#^)*^!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1


Transmission has to come out. Yay.

vortex

GOOD NEWS!

Exhaust pulled off, turbo pulled out, intake tract pulled out, brackets unbolted, and distributor cap pulled off.

Driveshaft out... tranny shifter/boot/upper shift boot all out. Cherry picker hooked up, and tranny backed up about 8".

Engine up in air, oil pan is OFF. I feel like celebrating! Pulled an all-nighter, it's now 6:20am, and the pan is OFF!!

That's right... we here at Vortex Performance never sleep! ....except... ah... Vortex there who's sleeping in the living room. Heh... Damn, what a load of work just to replace a stupid oil pan. That's what I get for listening to Beej! :lala:

Course, now I need an oil pan gasket, and still have to tap the new oil pan.

vortex

This bites! Noone's here to celebrate?

Imagine the sound of one beer clinking.... heh... damn, I should get some rest now....

posbird87

ive been readin this post for awhile, i dont have a v6 bird but i think this is a awesome and unique project u guys are doin :yourock:

keep up the good work and good luck in the future

Nixon1

Rock on, Doward! In the words of an old local radio personality, Larry the Cable Guy, "Getter done."

Y2KFirehawk

Awesome to hear guys!! Funny thing is I've done pretty many projects with my friends on my car late at night... and they were done well too!!

I can't wait till you guys have that bad boy up and running!!!

Nixon1

I work better at night! It's cooler out so I'm more relaxed and can think clearer. The only problem is light, and mosquitos.

Project: 85 2.8 bird

I did about 90% of the work on my car after 10pm. Post when the new erl pan is back on & we'll all suck down a Mickey's 40oz for ya

p.s. what is the p/n (if you remember) for the T from the erl pressure sender to feed the turbo erl?

Doward

The T for the oil feed, built for like $6 from Home Depot....

Doward

Ok, oil pan should be set tomorrow. Stupid guy at the boneyard swore up and down the '93 Blazer 2.8 had the same oil pan as my '88 Camaro. NO IT DOESN'T. U shaped at the timing cover, vs the Blazer's V shaped.

More as the week progresses...

icebird_1981

holley crap someone is really doing it!!!! congrats man!!!

Y2KFirehawk

Glad to hear things are still moving along man!! Keep 'er crankin!!

Doward

Of course! Why not? Just takes a boatload of time, money, research, fabrication... then the fact you're doing it from a totally blank canvas, with NOTHING to use as a 'maybe something like that'....




All I know so far, is in the time I used to accelerate to 70mph, and click 3rd, I was deep in 4th, about to knock on 100mph. :hail:

Nixon1

THAT big a difference? Man...that car must really like to be breathed on....

Doward

Gonna do everything I can to get that pan today... here's hoping next Wednesday yields a track run!

vortex

Doward, im gonna be working late today, call my cell and give me an update... I can give you a hand when i get home.. whenever that is...

Doward

Will do... just have to wait for Julie to return with the truck, so I can get going

Vortex, I'm gonna yank the two front tires, and pick up some new ones while I'm out. Saturday or Monday, I'm gonna get an alignment done...

vortex

Doward here... jeez.

Anyone notice like.. ALL the big updates are late night?

Oughta be Late Night with Vortex Performance around here...

Anyway. Just got a fender from RamAirZ (Thanks again man!) and am about to bolt everything together. Good times ahead. (HA)

More as it comes together...

AM91Camaro_RS

how's it goin? you got it back together yet?

Doward

3 days off from work... New fender on, lip pulled off, oil pan tapped/sealed, and tomorrow, she goes back together... here's hoping!

Dale

iTrader: (12)

Doward, can you take pictures and/or dimensions of where your tapping the oil pan. Any details, pictures are best. I am in thoughts of turbo on mine after finding woman better daily driver. :lala:

Y2KFirehawk

I just finished installing a turbo in my friends' US Lancer OZ Rally, and man can I say I have MAJOR respect even more then before for you guys even thinking about doing this project! He had ordered the turbo kit for his car, and it came with every piece and even a manual to install it, but that by NO MEANS meant it was easy or SIMPLE! Because a lot of things WEREN'T written!! I mean we had EVERY part needed, but yet it was incredibly hard!

And you guys are starting from SCRATCH!! :hail: But I think it was a total waste on his car, it's running 5 PSI, and he only had 120HP to begin with, so now basically he is up to the rest of the pack, if that...

But I must say, you guys definately had your work cut out for you!! I can't wait to hear/see/read about your car up running Doward and Vortex!!!:lala: