Oh, I know... picking up a '91 WC T5 to have totally rebuilt and waiting in the wings, for when this one gives up the ghost.

I think the tranny's breaking point will be about 250hp. As long as I stay away from slicks, hopefully it'll live.

 

Dow, are you an auto or manual currently??

So whats up with engine?? Low end problems? Are you going to have fun with the 2.8 tell she blows?

 

V here.. I'll answer for him..
5-spd currently and staying that way.. unless we turn the turby project into a bracket racer... mmmmm no.

The 2.8 currently has what would sound like no oil knock but goes away faintly... meaning it doesnt hold oil well until the pump picks it up again, or its that timing chain that we knew was bad, before we started this whole thing... I think the P.O.A, is gonna be Tuesday D will replace the chain and if that fixes it.. hes got some wheels for the time being while we build up the 3.1.. when the 3.1 is ready, I think we should punish whats left of the 2.8.. hopefully if we push a lot of boost thru it, its just internals that get messed up and not

But if the chain doesnt fix the prob on the 2.8, it is interchangeable to the 3.1 so we have one less part to buy. It seems everyone in ocala is short on money and time these days... have no fear 3G'ers.. we have already proven the 2.8s will hold.. 3.1's are next... and coming soon... quad turbos! :hail:
It has been a long drawn out process, and would have already been up and running had the car been mint to begin with.. but it wouldnt have been as fun.. Thanx for sticking with us.. we will have it done one day.. and then put the engine w/ turbo on a go-kart!

 

I dunno if you know this or not, but it's gonna take some extra work to put that 16g wheel on a 14b. the front plate on the centersection is convex on a 16g and flat on a 14b because the back of a 16g wheel extends a few MM into it. Also the compressor housing will have to be machined or replaced because a 16g wheel is a few MM wider at the inducer side. the rest is all the same. for higher flow though you should find a 7cm^2 turbine housing also. much more flow.

If none of this is news to you then just ignore it. I just wanted to let you know.

 

I was under the impression that the 14b compressor housing was the same as the 16g... also, I knew about the convex backing...

14B -
Inducer - 1.695" (43.053 mm)
Exducer - 2.285" (58.039 mm)

16G -
Inducer - 1.83" (46.48 mm)
Exducer - 2.365" (60.071 mm)

No worries mate. This is Vortex Performance, after all - and we wouldn't be us, if we didn't have to custom fit everything we do

Forgot to add - isn't the 7cm^2 exhaust housing basically a ported 6cm^2 housing? When replacing the wheel, I had intended on seriously opening up the exhaust housing... there's a HUGE step that's got to be hampering the exhaust flow...

millimeters added for the machining....

 

it's the same casting, just machined differently. I have a 16g wheel and a 14b housing right here and it won't even come close to fitting.

the 7cm^2 has a lot more open area all through it, especially in places hard to reach. I had my 6 and 7 sitting next to each other for about a week.

 

Are you on AIM or Ym? I'd like to talk to you about the turbo

 

Doward, as you're finding out right now, there's one thing I've learned.. information on specific turbos and their differences from other turbos tends to be sketchy at best till you find someone with solid experience with that exact turbo.. I've given up on figuring out what my K26/6 came off of.. the list of possibilities currently resides as Porsche 924/944S/951, Audi 100/5000, Saab 900 ... and now I'm sure there's more.. all different variations of the K26/6 .. and I couldn't tell you one physical difference, or even which number on the turbo would tell me where it's from... nor do I ever expect to know.. I'm putting it on.. if it works, great. If not, pair of 9gs or a 16g (I'm still convinced the 14g is a hair too small)


--- EDIT: correction.. I've got flowmaps for the 924 and Audi 100 variants.. but I can't match a single number to say mine is either..

 

ARGH!

I stand FULLY corrected.. I finally found a full breakdown page of basically "WTF is your turbocharger off of".... 1984 Audi 5000 2.2l I5 .... .. grr.

On the bright side, according to all of my data now, I have THE flow map for *my* turbo.. Yes, folks, by some miracle, one of the two flow maps I picked up is for the 2664 compressor housing and 6.91 turbine housing associated with the turbo sitting on my desk before me..

I'll try to translate the flow map into english... If any of the experts want to take a glance and compare it to our engine's demand, here's a copy of it.

http://techsmurf.gotdns.com/MAP-K26-2664-6.91-Audi.jpg

Also, if you've got a turbo and you don't know where it's from, this link is your ***. I am recompiling the data into one page for my own site, but here's the original for now..

http://www.bramall-turbo.com/FullAutoByMake_1.html

EDIT -- after a quick glance, this compressor's peak flow (50% efficiency line) at 1.4 bar is approx .165 cubic meters/sec.. 350 CFM... I'm still in business. Still, request expert opinion on engine demand..

 

WAY too small. The actual numbers are at Vortex's place, butI calculated the 2.8 @ 5200rpm for 6, 8, and 10psi, and believe me - the 16g is barely big enough. The 20g is actually a tad small, for 10psi on a 3.1!

IIRC, 6psi on the 2.8 was like 410cfm @ 5200rpm...

Vortex! post the data from turbo.txt in my documents!

 

Demand@5000 RPM, assuming 100% VE, 250CFM

1.4 bar@5000 RPM, assuming 100% VE (heh.. right) (250*1.4) 350 CFM. So boost will drop off. I wanted a saftey net anyway, and dying boost past 5k sounds good to me.

1.4 bar@5500 RPM assuming 85% VE (275*.85*1.4) 327 CFM

1.6 bar@5500 RPM assuming 85% VE = 374 CFM.. we're seeing that drop again.. but now I'm over 9 PSI (plus, at 1.6 bar, the turbo blows close to 370 CFM at the 50% efficiency line)

From what I can see, that 2.14l Audi motor is barely covering the shallow side of that compressor's performance ability.. whereas I would be hitting peak efficiency from about 3-4k rpm.. but I could be crazy.. I'll spend a few hours today on Stealth 316's page figuring out how to read these things accurately and convert this map into english.. maybe ditch some of the irrelevant audi info and try to graph 2.8 demand on an overlay in photoshop..

 

btoth of those turbos the k26 and the 16g are way to small to make any sort of effiecent boost pressure. dont forget youll pump the engine back to 100% ve before you make any boost. occasioanlly with crappy cylinder heads like the 60v6 has youll find that the actuall ve is closer to say 80%. then boost builds at 85% or so. for good performance. id highly suggest using something along these lines

t3/t4 hybrid

t3 80turbine a/r
to4e 70 trim a/r compressor. with a water cooled baering cartridge.

thats what i would be looking at if i wanetd to make say 10 psi of boost without excessive charge temp heating


thats pretty close to the GN and TA 3.8 turbo size. and to be honest thats what a 3.1l 60v6 project im working on with somebody will be using. either that or a pair of k26's we have laying around.

i also wouldnt pay tons of attention to stealth316's turbo maps. the conversions are wrong.

 

Just finished the first phase of redoing the K26 compressor map.. It'll be useless for anything beyond 8 psi.. however, it's within spec at 6 psi.. as I suspected. If I can find a #8 turbine, it would be better.. but hey. Who's to complain about free parts.. better than the shot TE05-12A I traded for it..

 

here's the outside difference between the 2 housings
I put the 2 side by side and the interior bore difference is over 1/8th of an inch.

 

Nice... can you get some interior pics? Dimensions?

Seriously, if it can't work, and we just end up screwing a 14b housing, big deal, right?

I mean, we'd have to get a new 16g compressor housing anyway!

Speaking of, guess what just arrived?

 

Yo Doward, found you a 16g comp housing for $20

http://www.gopartstrader.com/cgi-bin...26b7f52e627fb5

 

I shot out an email... Here's hoping, and THANKS for the heads up!

 

Just paypal'd the $20 for the 16g housing. Said no cracks, in excellent shape.

Sweet. 16g turbo for $65.

After AM91 gets back, I can get the 3.1, and Project Turbo Camaro proceeds to Stage II.

 

awesome.
now you just need a rebuild kit and a balance and you're set.
kits are 100 from FP and they balance for 35

 

16G Housing on its way. As soon as it comes in, I'll post pics!

 

Doward here... cleaning up the shop, lol.

Picking up the 3.1 tonight... 16G housing status - Delivered! Need to go get it from the post office tonight!

w00t. I'll try to have pics tonight.

 

hey doward and vortex...any new updates??? we havent had any in awhile....i need my turbo fix....

 

LOL... pulling the 2.8 back apart, while saving for the 3.1, and trying to find out exactly what my problem is with the 2.8. Hope to have her on the road again next week, 16g powered

 

300HP without nitrus would be sweet.
with a stock 2.8, even better.

Matt

 

so...we basically know that your setup will work on a strong/built 2.8...and we are gonna find out what a 3.1 can do...here's my question...after the 3.1 is the 3.4 next...cause the 3.4 swap is what i plan for my car next...and after that i would like to have a turbo...or preferably two...:rockon: ...so...we know the present and the near future...but what does the next few years hold???

 

Next few years?

Hopefully a whole slew of things. Vortex and I are working this all over, from every possible angle, since we want to market turbo kits for the 2.8 and 3.1 cars. Which means we have to get it working on not only a 2.8, but a 3.1 (and accompanying 730 ecu).

Down the road? If Pacesetter doesn't come through, how about some more affordably priced headers?

How about a carbon fiber intake?

Maybe a roller lifter retrofit kit?

How about the 60º V6 getting some respect in our Fbodies, and the V8 guys going, "350? I'm swapping in a 2.8!"*








*Ok, so that's a stretch... but you get the idea.

 

:hail: sound like great plans to me...but is there a turbo for the 3.4 in the future from you guys?? if not...im sure i can find one somewhere... ...good luck with everything...and remember to keep us updated...

 

If you're looking for 3.4 setups, that's just plain easy. If you're wrapping out at 5500-6000, a pair of mitsu TD04-9Bs will line up about perfectly, and since they're the stock turbos on 3000GT VR4s, they're abundant with the VR4 guys ditching them for other turbos. If you're shooting for 6500+, pair of TD04-13Gs is one way, or pick up a GN/TTA Garrett T3.

Either way you go, when you decide they're no longer big enough, you follow the 3000GT or GN/TTA upgrade route, which gives you a tremendous aftermarket to play with.

 

im still new to turbos...dont know what everything does like blow-off valves and what not...i just want a bolt on kit...i wouldnt say im not mechanically inclined...but i wont say that i am either...just give me a kit and i'll be happy...gotta love bolt ons...

 

LOL, yep, bolt on at it's finest.

As for the 3.4... We're designing this kit so that it doesn't matter what you have. Give us what ecu you are running, and what size motor.

The only difference will be the turbo itself. The kit is also being designed with an overkill intercooler, and wastegate/BOV.

In other words, the limiting factor will be the turbo itself, for how much pressure it can hold. As it stands, the setup I've currently got on will handle 25 lbs of pressure!!

Course, the engine won't hold that, and the turbo can't feed that much air. But everything else is overkill designed.

 

one word................
...............................
...............................
...............................
...:hail: :hail: :hail: ......
........awesome........

 

Won't you lose peak boost through an overly-large intercooler?

 

Not through a top/bottom setup. I'll actually be able to run more boost, since it's better cooled, and less pressure drop through the IC.

 

Are you planning on adding a boost gauge inside your car Doward?

 

i think that he has already done that.

 

hey guys...just got my new hot rod magazine...inside there is an article about turbo selection and setup...it is part one of a series....its got a lot of good info...cant wait for the rest of the series...ya'll should check it out....

 

I read that and give it a thumbs up for good info.. other than the "No Junkyard Dogs" section. *IF* you know what you're looking for, you *can* pick up junkyard turbos and work with them.. *pats his CT26*

 

You sir, are correct. *pats 16G* Nothing like $165 turbo, that's totally rebuilt, blowing 550cfm of air!

Yes, already have a boost gauge. Actually, still have a 2nd one, that I"m going to install before the intercooler, to see what kind of pressure drop I am experiencing through it.

 

um.. yeah.. that and you lost the receipt to return that P.O.R (piece of rlce)

*edit* what the bleeding hell? you cant use the Uncle Ben's word here?

 

Sod off, J-hole!

 

I'm not sure I'm even going to want to know what kind of pressure drop I'll be dealing with using the starion unit.. but when I replace my "gauge" with a triple-pod pillar and a digital gauge, I'll be sure to find out and let you know

Oh. and the updates continue. Oil pressure gauge sending unit installed.. reads 30-35 PSI @ idle, 40-50 normal, no engine load (she's still not road-worthy.. 3 stock rims and one 16" IROC is definitely keeping her parked at the moment

Along with the sending unit the tee for the turbo oil went in.. got 3 more 1/8" pipe pieces to add when it comes time to actually hook up the turbo...

Guys, any ideas for an oil restrictor for 1/4" or 3/8" ID hose?

 

Be sure your turbo doesn't already have an oil restriction... I know my TD05 center housing does!

 

Doward youve inspired me to start a turbo projet of my own on my car. I was htinking of doing it but seeing yours completed has given me the go ahead to do it. Id be doing it to a 3.1 speed density motor. Any tips?

 

Make sure you've got a 2 or 3 bar map and be prepared to rechip like mad if you want to be sure you'll get good fuel delivery.. I think 614Streets would be the best person to talk to on MAP+boost..

 

HEY Doward.. How about some additional information on the turbo? I'd like to email ya and discuss doing it to my 3.1L.

thanks

 

uh huh.. trying to steal Vortex Performance's design and hard work? What is it you needed to know? if you'd like a replica, they will be for sale in the gift shop

 

rofl... I'd be happy to answer any questions fielded. But I'd rather answer them on here, so all can see it.

 

well.. yeah.. maybe I can avoid some of the problems that you ran into! I'm very interested in seeing how you ran the exhaust piping, changes in fuel pressure, getting a copy of your BIN file before and after the turbo. Oil supply seems to be a real problem to figure out too. Where did the supply line come from, I think that you said you had a 1/4 T from the oil pressure sending unit, but isn't there another plug on the side of the oil filter assembly that you can plug into? Also, on the oil return, I have a plug in the side of my block right in front of the oil filter and I was wondering if that could be used for the oil return instead of having to drill holes into my oil pan.
:hail:

 

plug is most likely for coolant, not erl.

 

I have a spare block in the garage that I'm going to check on that, but that seems to make sense to me.