We all know how much adjusting valves on these v6's are a pita because you have to remove the plenum and to remove the lower you need to remove the fuel rail. So i was thinking, What if you cut a long channel like directly over the valve nuts ? It would make for very easy adjustment and couldnt it be sealed with like a aluminum (or whatever) plate and some rtv or you could even by gasket material and make a gasket yourself. You could drill some holes and screw through the plate into the valve cover gaskets. If done right it could look pretty good.
So do you know what im talking about ?
Good idea or am i crazy? if done right i dont see how it would leak and it would sure as hell beat tearing all that crap off if you need to get back to a valve.in the pic the cout out would be th yellow area, imagine a valve cover being there also.

 

I see it being more labor, and more risk.

Gotta pull the valve covers to cut them anyway so debris doesnt get inside the engine, and blow it.

Gotta make plates with holes in it for pvc, oil fill, breather.

How you going to get your fingers in the hole to spin pushrod?

Dont forget about the oil baffles inside the covers.

 

way to rain on my parade dale, jk, i was thinking it would be more of a engine running thing than the finger method. also i guess if someone wanted to they could tac the baffels to the diamondplate or whatever they're using to cover the channel with.
Also the way i was thinking of cutting it would be with tin snips so i wouldnt have crap falling in the head.

 

its been done... you can buy them for SBCs that way.


some even use a plexi-glass top so you can see the rockers working (until it gets covered with a oil film on the inside.....

 

If you were feeling really frisky, you could line it up as to drill 6 holes in each cover aligned with each nut and just use little plastic plugs. Should eliminate most of the problems with pcv and filler cap. You'd still have to remove the covers once, but once is better than repeatedly.. with a setup like that relashing your valves would become a very easy 5-10 minute annual tuneup step.

Been looking into something like this for a while, and it'll become a main issue for me when I go to replace my heads within the next few months.

 

I've never taken the vavle covers off, but if you like to adjust the valves a lot, it seems like a pretty good idea to me. I can think of a few different ways you could rig it so that you didn't have to take the plenum off.

 

If nothing else I'll probably do something like that to the spare 3.4 plastic valve covers I'll have laying around once we get them off my buddy's donor motor... or I might keep the plastic ones intact and use them.. not sure yet.

 

The problem is i did it the way the haynes manual says and they are still loose and i think one is too tight, and Everyone says if you do it with the motor running its easier to get them correct but no way in hell am i removing the plenum and crap to remove the valve covers and then reinstalling the plenum and crap to start the motor. Its too much of a pita. I just was messing with the valve covers now and i can get the covers off with the plenum still on but its still a pita to do. I used a 8 mm socket, a swivel, a 2 inch extention and a dist wrench on the end of all that. I figure if i cut the valve cover i dont have to worry about hard to reach bolts or oil shooting all over with the motor running. I could make it look nice but right now im ready to use some plain sheet metal. What temp does plexiglass melt? I have some 1/4 inch left over from another project. Think that will work?

 

You might get away with plexiglass (melting point is about 300°F from my sources). Maybe you should test a piece of it by burning it to see if it's flammable or if it gives off any noxious fumes.

 

Thing is i drive my car from Philly to trenton Nj alot. Thats a little more then 60 miles round trip. I dont want to be on the 95 and have a melted vc top. I think ill use some sheet metal to be safe.I tested the plexiglass and it did melt.

 

Lots of people run them in like that. ONce you do the stock adjustment off you can do a final adjustment while running to clear up and excess clatter.

Its common in the V8 world. THey even sell V cover like that in mags for the V8.

 

I like techsmurfs idea, but isnt one of them underneith the pvc baffle?


And whoever said the 3.4 covers are plastic, I dunno about yours, but mine were steel.

 

Why don't you use spring-loaded metal covers on the inside of the holes, similar to the gas tank filler neck? That seems like a good idea, BTW. Too bad I didn't think of it first before I had to start fussing with the rocker arms...

Oh, and how are you going to know if more than one is off? If more than one is off, you can adjust the rockers all day long and get nowhere fast.

 

Good idea. 6 neck hacksawed off 6 bad fuel tank atthat yard will only involve labor. I know they pull them before being crushed. Not sure what happens to them after that.

That is a good idea.

I believe this kind of final run in is just for noise. They should be set to specs like the book but sometimes you need to adjust for noise after its running.

 

i know i said it in a PM, but if you took a cast alum fiero valve cover, cut a big rectangle out of the top, and drilled/tapped it for a cover, it could be cool...

id make the cover from 1/4" alum and mill some lines or somthing in it to look pretty..... or get somthing engraved.... be kinda trick looking.

if you use sheetmetal covers, you're going to have to tac nuts to the underside of the cover to use screws....

 

MEMO
To: South Philly (G0d I MISS Pat's & Gino's)
Re: Holes in Valves Covers

br()bert:

YA GOT HOLES IN YOUR HEAD!?!?!

Simply answered, NO, ya fix the project once & correct.
IT is truly a very discouraging event to get to this arm adjustment point and then still need work.
Yes, the ONLY way to do this adjustment is to do it effectively & correctly.
I used a compression gauge to adjust valves on my Firebird. After too many attempts at finger tight way, I only kept failing as in engine wouldn't start due to a valve kept open & no compression in that cylinder leading to no ignition.

My Blazer sits at this exact point, unfinished, due to poor adjustment on valves after the 3.4 swap in..
Well I'm gonna conquer it, too.

IF I was you, I'd go buy a compression tester (screw into spark plug type) & use a combo of guage readings & push rod "twisting".
Get to highest cylinder pressure number, twist pushrod, then keep tightening in small movements, test cylinder pressure again. IF ZERO reading, ya went to far in adjustment
This is what I'm gonna do to my Blazer.
As yourself, I got this far by myself & damned if I can't finish, also.

Suggested by a friend, he said, just tighten each rocker one more 1/2 twist, after running engine to heat up (expand all metal).

No, on valve cover idea. Ya think ya had problems before, drive around with holes in valve covers.......See how long ya can "see!"

Today will be close or 70* & sunny in Los Angeles.

 

good idea mr dude,Maverick on my car its pretty easy to hear what valve is making all the noise. That damn passengers side rear ,since i dont have another car and im not walking to the junk yard in the snow im just gonna pull the covers off and get oil all over then reinstall them, then go to the junkyard like tomorrow and get another set of covers to work on, hopefully a set like mr dude said.I found out if i used a 8mm socket, a swivle , a 2 inch extention, and a dist wrech i can reach the top vc bolts. I wanna drive my car so bad now.

 

hey ked, put a rear spoiler on and differnt rims and you go my car.

 

I'll do ya one better!
MOVE YOUR CAR TO LOS ANGELES AND ya can park next to mine at this spot close by Malibu!
I am tempted to install a rear spoiler.
BUT that would mean spending money on a part & also new rear window struts!
Keep at it, you'll get this.
Go see how expensive is a spark plug compression test guage.
Keep engine clean!
I already replaced the torn rear bumper cover & the front driver fender.

Keep at it the right way.

Why rip apart the top end & valve covers, only to put back on the top end, to make motor run, so ya can make an oily mess, then take off top end to reinstall the valve covers?

Think I didn't want to do that easy messy no cover adjustment way to my Blazer engine bay (that's the 3.4 under the carb set up)?
I accept I do the adjustment the correct way, also.
I need re-borrow my friends compression gauge set up for my round two! I only drive like 35 miles one way to get the compression tool!

PS I drive there on Sunday mornings to escape the insane traffic clogs of the LA freeways. I can be there in like 20-30 minutes compared to pitching a tent on rush hour traffic days......

 

once they're modded, you dont have to take apart the top end, you wont have to remove the covers and most important...


it wont make a oily mess.... since the valve covers still have sides to them, it contains the oil, and the oil drains back like normal..

for $3 you can get these neat lil clips that are made to do this... they clip onto the rockers, and keep the oil from squirting out too high while you adjust it... then you yank the clips off, put the valve cover top plate/cover on and you're set.
heck you'll even get a extra 2 clips in a pack

 

You should have 4 extra

 

no. that would be 2 packs.

you only need the clips for one bank at a time... so they come in packs of 8.... or atleast mine did...

if they came for both sides of a V8 though you're right.

 

well guys no more tap tap tap tap tap, i took the valve covers off WITH the plenum still on. I had to move the upper alt bracket out of the way and bend the bracket by the ac compressor (or where it should be sine i have no ac comp) a little. Once you get the top screws out of the vc's they slide out pretty easy.Also i had to remove the egr and the coil bracket. DAMN my valves were loose! I turned the motor over by bumbing the key in the ing to tdc #1 and re did the haynes manual way and. Once done i started it to make sure they were ok before i put the valve covers back on, this sucked because i had to put the alt bracket back on then take it back off. BUT it certainly beats taking the whole plenum and fuel rail out and reinstalling it, checking the valves and tearing it all down again! Im gonna look for a set of vc's to cut the top out, im thinking of diamond plate to cover the cut out with, ill need to drill the obvious holes in it also.

 

Hey, the Number 5. That seems to be the lucky number.... And once you reach the bolts with the intake assembly on, HOW IN THE WORLD ARE YOU GOING TO GET THE COVER OFF??? I've tried it that way, and you must have a different plenum assembly or something, because the valve covers don't move that much and removing brackets don't work.... You wait until you run the engine for longer than two minutes. The tapping will come back.... and be worse, unless you used locking compound on the threads... but I can guarantee you that the tapping WILL return...

Unless the reason I can't remove the covers with the plenum attached is because I have a weird stud pattern in the heads...

 

I have adjusted the rockers on my s10 2.8, and my camaro 3.1 w/o using thread locker, and they have never backed off (atleast 4mths driving on both).

I think your adjusters have been tampered with alot and the "grip" is lost if they un-adjusting in matter of weeks.

 

You see the pic man, i did it with the plenum on, i had to remove the alt bracket and egr but i did it without removing the plenum. I put 20 miles on it today after i fixed it and i still have no tap. Also i talked to some of my friends and none of them ever used locking compound. Do you have the little disk under the bolt ? When i took my heads apart(well partialy) They had a disk ontop of the rocker arm bolt, i think that locks the nut on the bolt. When i turn my rocker arm bolts they feel tight all the time.
Car runs fine now other than my idle speed bing a little too high, Ill fix that tomorrow. It felt so good to go sliding around corners again! Also if you use a 8 mm socket a swivel and a large extention im sure you can take the covers off without taking the plenum off. You will have to remove the egr , alt bracket,and the bracket behind the power steering pump(or bend it slighly) ITs MUCH easier than removing the plenum,fuel rail just to put it back, then after adjusting the valves you would have to tear it down, install the vc's and put it back again.
Ps, i checked the valves 10 times before i put the covers back on this time!

 

If you are referring to the rocker pivot ball as the "disk", yes, I have those. The only time mine are tight is once they contact the pivot ball and actually start tightening the rocer arm down. The nuts are 10mm ( ) and the only way I can turn them is with a 10mm deep socket, which won't fit with a u-joint on it, so I don't have to switch sockets every five minutes to turn a different nut.

I still don't get how you can possibly remove the covers without removing the alternator altogether, the windhield wiper motor, the ignition coil bracket, and the intake plenum, because there is no space in there to get a tool to turn the nuts much less swivel the cover to get it out, and the power steering pump isn't even in the way and neither is its bracket (of which I need the nuts and forgot the thread size if anyone knows offhand I'd appreciate it-I have the single nut on the pump rather than 2).

BTW, I first tried the "don't remove the plenum to remove the VC's" idea and it DIDN'T work... The cover hit the plenum on the way over the ends of the studs and it wouldn't budge!

P.S.> Why do you think that a good practice (and usually scheduled maintenance) to check and adjust the rocker nuts every 10-20K miles? Not just wear, I know that...

 

I think I'd know whats in the way since i removed the vc's with the plenum still on. The bracket going from the power streering pump then runs along the block ontop of the drivers side exhaust manifold needs to be removed or slightly bent,the egr needs to be removed and the coil bracket also the inner most alt bracket, the alt then gets pulled all the way to the passengers side of the car and (after all the vc's bolts are out) the vc gets pulled up and down.
If you do not remove the inner alt bracket it keeps the vc from comming up. Also if you do not bend or move the other bracket i mentioned on the drivers side its impossable to remove the vc. The drivers side is done the same way up and then pulled out and down.
ALso im not the first to do this, i did a search when i though of trying it and i found agood2.8 posted he had done it before.
The red area in the pic is where the bracket on the drivers side is in the way.

 

whoops forgot the pic. Also i dont have STUDS i have bolts in my vc's, i guess if you have studs you cant do what i did.

 

Okay, your 85 is different from my 87. I have studs, you have bolts. You probably have a different alt bracket setup than I do, also a different PS pump bracket setup (I still think you are referring to the A/C compressor bracket as the power steering rear bracket is located UNDERNEATH the exhaust manifold on that side). And I might be interested in the same idea as you had, but I need to get bolts to replace the studs.

P.S. Did you adjust your TV cable (cable that attaches to the top of the throttle detent with green connector)? It looks a little loose in that picture. All you have to do is, with the engine off, rotate the detent to the WOT position and release it.

 

Your right it is the ac bracket. I even called it that a couple of posts up. lol. I just forgot.Now i need to adjust the idle speed and get a new pcv valve and im set. Also about the cable, i tried that about a 100 times now and it still always has play in it. Its like someone before i had it bent it or something. It comes out fine at wot and goes back but the bent part never goes away. I was thinking of trying needle nose pliers and bending the kink out of it.

 

Is there any way you can get a closer pic of the vac line setup on the top of your throttle body? I broke the main line that comes off of there and goes into the EGR section and am looking at possiblities for replacement. Is there a part number on that connector-like thing? All I have is a rubber block holding two solid vac lines. I broke the end of the one line twice now and there is nothing left to plug into the TB...

And as for the kink in the TV cable, you can't get rid of it without getting a new cable. If anything, you will make the kink worse. Have you tried adjusting it the way the Haynes says? It seems difficult with the positioning fo the bracket and all, but I think it can work that way... I have experience with similar cabling, especially bicycle brake cable.

 

WAY EXCELLENT!
Come out to LA & do mine!
I'll take ya to Venice for some pizza on the Santa Monica beach.
It'll be nice until Tuesday & it may rain.
I solved one car problem today & now it's onto my Blazer.
Good inspiration!

 

Ill take a pic of it tomorrow but hers what i did. I took a small piece of that plastic tube and put it in the rubber plug that goes into the throttle body then put a rubber vac hose onto the plastic piece and ran it where it needed to go, then i used some black rtv to seal the area around the rubber hose and the plastic tube and the area near the plastic tube and the rubber plug. I only have the hose going to the fuel regulator because my egr and evap can are dissconnected. Tomorrow ill take a closer pic. Also you dont really need the rtv they fit tight but im vac leak paranoid!.

 

I would delete my damn evap can (half of my new problem-blowing carbon chunks out exhaust due to excess fuel in combustion sequence and leaving too much gas in engine to start effectively) but I would have to work with the vac lines so I could keep the EGR stuff, and the fact that I am not positive if it is legal here in NY to do so or whether some mech is going to get picky about it and fail me for having it disconnected (just what I need when I FINALLY get it ready for inspection again, only to have it fail AGAIN!)...

BTW, when you deleted the can, how did you take care of the gas tank vent line?

 

I put the gas tank vent line in the fender with a filter on it to keep out any dirt. I've seen others on here who have done it by drilling a small hole in the gas cap.

 

here is a pic of the hose ontop of the tb, its not too good of a pic, cheap *** digi camThe tape is from when i had the motor apart, i still didnt take any of it off yet.

 

heres the egr, i left the ecu pluged into the egr thingy and blocked all the vac lines going into and out of it. I dont get any codes this way.Yeah that coil isnt the one that belongs, my old coil died and i had my old coil from my old car around( i switched it on that car to a accell) So i took the accell gm plug adapter and wired in the coil. Its bigger and stronger than the stock one.

 

Thx a bunch. It looks as though I have a lot of work to do... looks like I will be pulling the oil pan after all as soon as I can find a way to drain the oil into a milk jug without spilling it all over the place in the process (the only funnel we have is one of those long neck things and I need a short neck). Good thing my neighbor gave me his spare gaskets .

Also, what happens if I just plug up the gas tank vent line? Will it cause problems in the future? Can I jury-rig something similar to the PCV system so I can keep gas out of the engine?

 

someone on here posted that they blocked the vent line all together and drilled a small hole in their gas cap to vent the gas tank.

 

Yeah, but it don't make sense to me as to why there HAS to be a hole for the gases to vent out of, unless it is because a vacuum is formed in the tank as the engine is running...

 

SIMPLY PUT
EMSSIONS!!!!!
Gas fumes, vapors are a MAJOR POLLUTANT IN SOCAL air!
Back your way does your gas station have gas hoses that have rubber suction spring loaded seals to go over gas tank neck? Like in NASCAR pit stops?
This has been mandatory in SoCal for about 15 or more years.
If ya don't remove the built up pressure, wouldn't a gas tank explode?
In SoCal smog tests they are testing gas caps to make sure the caps do not leak fumes.
The modern gas tank has to be sealed & pressure maintained, seems several ways. On the Firebird, this look like one way.

Outta all the we've been chatting about...
HOW DOES AN ASSEMBLY LINE GUY ADJUST VALVES & PUSHRODS ON THE ENGINES AS THEY GO DOWN THE LINE? AND A ONE TIME CHANCE so must be accurate adjustment. I know assembly line guy can "remove" an engine and stick aside, but, how do they do adjust quick & correct? Don't just say practice!

 

Outta all the we've been chatting about...
HOW DOES AN ASSEMBLY LINE GUY ADJUST VALVES & PUSHRODS ON THE ENGINES AS THEY GO DOWN THE LINE? AND A ONE TIME CHANCE so must be accurate adjustment. I know assembly line guy can "remove" an engine and stick aside, but, how do they do adjust quick & correct? Don't just say practice!<~~~~~ Good question!___________vacuum is formed in the tank as the engine is running...<~~~~ You answered your own qusetion maverick

 

I know engines are "run" by a "motor" (like a starter motor) to turn over for some testing & adjustments. Including pressure testing water passages & probably fuel lines.
But is this the answer I seek for my question?
I don't doubt that this is how engines are delivered to assembly line (pretested in "some" way).
I kinda refer to the "old days", like the 50's/60's period, before "robotic" assembly line practices. How was it done then, cause that is the "level & skill" I'll bet most of us, are here, on this board.

 

You still have confuggled me on this subject. If we HAVE to have the can, which stores the vapors in transfers them into the VACUUM hoses on the engine, there is a VACUUM in the top of the tank, correct? Now, there is also a VACUUM being built in the tank because the fuel is being drawn OUT of the tank by the FUEL INJECTION system. Now, without a vented gas cap (SOCAL obviously don't know beans), I would assume that the gas tank would eventually crumple like an empty tin can in 2 atm. of pressure because of all of the vacuum being exerted on the INSIDE of the tank. But this does not happen. WHY!!!

And if the fuel leaving the tanks forms a vacuum, why do we even need the can to vent the vapors into the engine? It seems to me as though the vapors would be sucked BACK INTO THE TANK as the fuel is leaving! A vacuum has to have something to fill the void if there is going to be a CONSTANT PRESSURE exerted on the tank so it don't turn into the aforementioned tin can!

What is the big deal about having the can?! Emissions don't matter to me as I am NOT in California and if I ever go there, I will NOT be taking the car.

 

I dont exactly know the deal on the can, all i know is its not in my car and my car runs fine. I see what your saying about the fuel being sucked into the engine and that in turn should suck the fumes into the tank not out.

 

What kind of filter did you use on the line? Was it one of those breather filter things?

 

yes i just went to pep boys and looked at the filters they had and bought the cheapest one that fit. Its just so no dirt blows down the hose. btw i was told if i left the egr thingy pluged into the ecu and just blocked off the vac hoses i wouldnt get any code but today after driving 100 miles i got a code. Checked it,and it was the egr code.
Car runs better now than it ever did though.Im not saying that blocking/dissconnecting the egr or evap can is the reason though,when i had the motor apart i cleaned EVERYTHING.The inside of my manifold,throttle body, iac passages,plenums,and the underside of the head all got cleaned very good and polished as much as possible with my dremil.
Today i was going through a toll and following my sister in law and i was trying to hurry so i didnt get too far behind her, so after i paid the toll the thingy went up i pushed the pedal like halfway down and my car spun the tires and slid sideways out of the toll booth.
before i had a much harder time doing that.
But next year im ditching the v6 and getting a crate motor and a rebuilt trans, going carbed 350. Less problems easier to work on too.

 

I am heading down that road. I think I am going to end up with the EGR still connected (no code, why not? Just have to clean the intake once every tune-up) and leaving the EEC can in place but disconnected.

Hey, why don't we meet some time next year and I can take that V6 off of your hands? I would rather keep the original engine in this chassis over putting in a V8... Too much work for the time being....

 

Sure, but thats not untill next year.Never know, hell you could have a 3.4 in your car by then