are there any headers anywhere for the 3.1L v6?

 

PF&E on this site can make some and pacesetter is working on some

 

and who is PF&E a user or a company if a company wuts the website?

 

The person you want to contact is Mr. Fred Gerle at PaceSetter Exhaust.
As this is written a test vehicle is being procured for fitment of the street legal header for the V6, 3rd Gen F Body. It'll be street legal for model year 1985-1992 2.8 & 3.1 MPFI F Body.
www.fgerle@pacesetterexhaust.com is where ya send your short email, in support of this product coming to the marketplace very soon.
With this product will be a new "Y" pipe. The rest of the exhaust system can also be purchased from PaceSetter Exhaust (larger, hi flo CC & larger "I" pipe & better flowing muffler).
Any tech questions ask Mr. Fred Gerle.
Keep up the kind gentle pressure cause this product is becoming a reality soon!
Make sure you also thank him for making this product a reality. I went through several exhaust manufactures before Mr. Fred Gerle heard our plea for this street legal exhaust system product that Pace Setter will make for us & all who will buy these headers.

 

thank you very much!!!

 

or you could get some from PF&E and not wait forever for pacesetter...i have some on mine pics can be found here
http://www.deadbird.org/swin/index.php?showtopic=8

 

In California and too many other parts of the country, "forver" ain't so long as long as there is a "CARB NUMBER METAL TAG" attached to the final product as ya go for smog testing.
Even if ya don't plan on buying this specific 3rd Gen V6 product, send a quick email to Mr. Fred Gerle at Pacesetter Exhaust, in support of this product and thanking PaceSetter Exhaust for their help.
fgerle@pacesetterexhaust.com
Because, one day, mandatory smog testing may be in your area!

 

Unfourtunately yes, Pacesetter may take a while to get.
But I will bet they they will be of much higher quality then the "other ones".
The Pacesetters will also INCLUDE the "y" pipe, not be an extra charge, or worse a custom chop shop deal.
The Pacesetter one's will be STREET LEGAL IN ALL 50!.
And I will be willng to bet that the Pacesetters will also be cheaper and fit much, much better.

 

Please, everyone that is truly interested in purchasing this product, spend a few key strokes to sent a short supportive letter keeping this product in the works.
A few weeks ago, Mr. Fred Gerle reported that PaceSetter Exhaust has a test fitment car and said vehicle is destined for the engineering lab tech guys very very soon.
Check out Pace Setter Exhaust other products, too!
Like the 1993-95 3.4 header set up for the 4th Gen F Body.
www.pacesetterexhaust.com (NOT SURE, but try)
DEFINETLY
fgerle@pacesetterexhaust.com
for a short supportive email for this product, coming soon!
PS Include a BIG THANK YOU, too, because this company, Pace Setter Exhaust and Mr. Fred Gerle listened to me for considering to produce this product.

 

i had no fitment problems what so ever on the headers....and making a y-pipe is just as easy as fitting on one that they supply either way your gonna have to do some mods to get it to work as not all of our cars are exactly the same.

the only real advantage to waiting is they will be street legal...i dont have that problem as there are no emissions laws here woohooo

most people that want them will back out as soon as they are made like most of the products on this board and they will once again stop being made...seems to be a trend on here

if ya wanna wait by all means wait for them to finally get them out to the public, in the mean time ill be enjoying the fact i already have a set that work wonderfully and will be able to trade one in to get a turbo header from them when they get there trubo set up done....i dont think pacesetter will let ya do that or make one for a turbo setup so ya gotta think about that too if you ever wanna turbo yoru V6. PF&E is making a crap load of stuff for our cars so you may wanna look into that more if you dont have emissions

 

so yoru saying they havent even started on them yet....hmmm, and how long have they been talking about having headers for our cars....

 

Again, they were waiting for a car. Then they have to clean the car up. Then they have to take measurements and see the exact space they have to deal with.
THEN and ONLY then should they start working on the actual design.

Again, I would will wait for the P/S'rs. Better quality, better design, better fitment, AND A WARRANY I am sure.
Wll P/S'rs be traded for turbo manifolds? no. and according to your view, if people are not going to buy the (more then likely cheaper priced) pacesetters, why in the world would they spend MORE on a header, then pay more to exhange that header for another, then pay yet again for a turbo set up?

You think the people on this board are cheap? please I have seen people complain about under 400 for a custom MPI intake for cars on other boards.
or how about 600 to go to 4 piston 13" brakes that fit under the stock 16" wheels... Yes they complain about prices much more then this board. and yes people back out, and yes the people STILL KEEP MAKING THE PARTS.

 

well if you read the post above they have a car...and really how hard is it to find a v6 camaro firebird to use as a test car...they are everywhere. and what do you really ahve to clean, its an exhaust set up

headers are headers...ya cant see them in our cars hardly at all so long as they are sealed and fit snug what more quality do you need. and what kinda waranty do ya really need on headers? its not like they are gonna blow up randomly.

as far as the turbo....more than likely they will allow us to send the one back free of charge(not postive havnet gotten a yes or no on that one yet somoene from PF&E feel free to chime in on that one) but at least they have some options so that we can take this engine farther than just headers.

im willing to bet they dont get those headers done and ready for the public for at least another year if they ever actually get them done

 

Your option is to not buy them.
Ever try to get a manufacturer to create a product for dead car?
AND make the product street legal for an engine outta production for over 10 years?
AND foot the bill?
Incidentally, the final product testing bill is close to over $5,000. Of pure company profit, on a spec product.
When you accomplish that, email me.
You are fortunate to be in an area of no emission checking.
Same time, not sure if I'd wanna live in Indiana, Been there, Seymour, Indiana.
Would love to be there, Indy 500 & the James Dean Festival.
IF ya happy with your product, cool
Don't dump on us/others that are trying & eventually succeding in having this street legal product available.
Check out the street legal header product for the 3.4 4th Gen.
That product is currently produced and and available for purchase.
This street legal header for the 1985-92 60* V6 3rd gen F Body will be available soon enough.
I'm quite happy to wait.

 

V6Sucker, For your info- Greg at PF&E happens to make the custom race headers for the C5 race Vettes- were not talking simple street cars, but full blown transAm style C5 Vettes. I think he knows a thing or two over pacesetters little mass production, just make them fit and economical type headers.

PF&E is not some fly by night punk kid making them in his garage.

 

I love how you can find pictures of PF&E headers installed, plenty of people know about them but no one seems to know where to get them or know a link for other people to get them.

 

halfpint, did you ever get anything done with that plenum or 3.4? i'm interested to see how they work out.

 

heres an idea did you say "how can i get ahold of PF&E" or "what is the website or phone number" hmm....first thing i would think of i dunno about you....well i hadnt noticed but the sticky at the top of the v6 board for the headers is no longer there...wonder why? anyways they dont have a website to my knowledge but if you want them just ask somone for the phone number. i had it but not sure where it is. try asking 6SPEED84Z28 if your interested

 

funstick could tell ya somethin too.

 

You must mean my cousin Dean? He has a new project going that is taking priority, But he will get to it someday. The guy is always got tons of stuff going on. I'm helping him on a Mini Cooper he's completely cutting apart and reengineering.

by the way, I'm Derek.

 

PF&E is in Michigan. There phone # is 586-949-3400, you should ask for Greg

 

hi Derek. ok, sorry, from one of your other posts, i thought you were Dean. has he done anything else with the two projects i mentioned?

 

For your info- Greg at PF&E happens to make the custom race headers for the C5 race Vettes- were not talking simple street cars, but full blown transAm style C5 Vettes. I think he knows a thing or two over pacesetters little mass production, just make them fit and economical type headers.


IF ya checked out Pace Setter Exhaust Website, you'd be impressed by the wide range of quality products they do manufacture.

Conversly, the making of C5 Vette pipes ain't bad, either.
BUT does PF & E have the reputation of Ed Jardine, Jere Stahl or Doug Thorley? To name a few of the "Fathers" of the High Performance exhaust system.

Until you make a product and mass produce it and still have positive cash flow to take another idea to expand your marketplace pressence, don't dump on another.
A manufacturer is willing to put out their cash & effort to make a street legal product for an underdog vehicle.
Why complain?
The Street Legal High Performance V6 60* 3rd Gen F Body Header exhaust pipes (available soon) from Pace Setter Exhaust is the perfect solution for many here.

My response is NOT a put down on the PF & E product. I want that point clear.
I ENDORSE ANY PERSON or MANUFACTURER willing to make a product for our dead underdog engines & cars!

I just read that they are stopping production on the 3.4 CRATE engines.
Basically, what is out there, is it.

 

I agree with Ked, yes it was nice for them to make what 5? headers for those that had the (high) money to blow.
But most of us are on amuch tighter budget, and have other worries on our minds.

Quite frankly, I am not building the camaro for speed right now. I have a 2.0L DOHC car for that. (To be running low 12's) Ovnce that car is complete, then I might think about putting actual effort to the camaro.
Right now I perfer the GN motor option.
Also, I am spending $900 on the 2.0L swap project. To factory spec it will run 260H/260T

 

Billy thought that it was no longer needed. I will try to find it and repost it.

AS far as pace setter...Ked keeps stating that they are only going to be for 85-92.....well that really doesn't help out anyone from 82-84. What is the difference? I thought the only difference was that on the 85 up that the O2 sensor is the Y pipe where on the 82-84 it is in the exhaust manifold. If that is the only case why can't they be made with the fitting and a brass plug that can be taken out. I contacted PFE and he was willing to go ahead and machine the fitting for me. Another alternative for the 82-84 owners would be to extend the O2 wire and either get a Y pipe from an 85 up car or buy an adpator from Summit or something. I just don't understand how a company can make a product and state that it is for Third Gen. V6 F-body and not included the first 3 years of the model.

I am not ditching or supporting either company and if you read the post you will notice that I gave suggestions for the 02 situations. Frankly right now I am tring to decide if I want to put the money in my 2.8 or swap out for a 350 I already have.

The PFE post has been restuck.

I done some research on the price of the 2.8 headers (#EDL-6886) that Edelbrock makes for the S-10 and they are $275.95 plus shipping through Summit. That was just for some type of ball park figure what mass produce headers go for.

 

cc_hotrod, Pacesetter asked about the first few years. Ked informed them that their are so few people with them, and that no intrest from that crowed was their. You are the first to be concered with it.

As you stated, they will bolt up, but some modifications would need to be done. I'm sure that if this was brought up to pacesetter that a special y-pipe could be fabed with an extra bung, and/or an o2 wire extension provided they would do it. Would just need a different part number for adding the extra part(s).

 

Hopefully this won't get Derek banned- I'm signing on temporararly to his name-
This is Dean (Formerly AGood2.8)
I have tried just the TB and have shown better topend performance. BUt I have not yet installed the new Plenum, ported middle, and ported lower base intake manifolds. Nor have I installed my PF & E Headers yet. I have said before that I will not put them on the 2.8. Like Derek said for me, I am working on my '67 MiniCooper building it for vintage racing and will take up most of my time and money over the next few years. Then when the Camaro's 2.8 has close to 100,000 miles on it maybe (right now it only has aprox 45,000 on a new crate motor) I will then finish building a radical 3.5L motor. The Camaro is the wifes daily driver, shes happy with it as is, i'll have to by her a new car before I hop up the V6 too radically.

I still checkout whats going on around here.

 

Please don't take this personally...Dale or Ked this is just a general observation.

Whenever the information started about headers from Pace Setter it was implied that it was for the 60* V6 F-Body not until later was it stated year specific. So with the orginial information why would the 82-84 owners have reason to reply thinking that they were included. As far as Ked informing Pace Setter about little interest from the 82-84 crowd, I have been asked by owners of 82-84 F-bodies about headers that are not members of this board so in fairness accurate information can not be given from the membership of this board only.

But like I posted earlier as well as Dale has it is an easy fix.

Maybe I am just bias b/c I own an 84 but sometimes it looks like everyone thinks that the third gen started in 85. (Just a general statement not directed directly towards anyone.)

 

cc, have you emailed pacesetter? If not, give it a try, and inform them of what minor changes would need to be made, and see if a kit can be made. I have never seen a carb v6 camaro, so I am unsure.

If pace setter wont do it, one person will need to get a set, see what needs to be done, and inform the others.

They are going in the same body car, all things will bolt up the same (I'm guessing, we know engine will). So a wire extended, or a hole drilled and a bung welded on, and another pluged doesnt seem to be a "large" problem. I would do it.

I'm sure something can be easly retro-fitted once its out.

 

There is obviously some serious Pacesetter versus PF&E going on here, so for those of you still trying to decide what to do, let met tell you my personal experience ....

Somewhere in the beginning of this year, i decided to get some headers for my car after i read on this site that there's a company that makes them (this was PF&E).
That same day there was a post on this board by someone from PF&E advertising the headers (post was locked very soon).

So i contacted them, and after a few mails i was promised that they would start working on my headers next week and that they would be finished in a week or 2.
That was januari 23.
That was the last i heard from them.
After waiting a few extra weeks, i looked around to see if they have a website, just to see what kind of business they were running, but i didn't find any.
What i did find was a site with reviews on some company's , and Performance Fabrication & Engeneering was included ... the reviews leave little to the imagination.
MCCGP local business information page

Patient as i am , i waited some more.

Yesterday, after reading in this thread and being pretty frustrated from the 2-month wait, i mailed to Pacesetter.
Same day i got a reply that the car for the prototype was there and that the prototype would be finished this week.

So i cancelled my order today and i'm gonna wait for the Pacesetter headers.

 

Fred Gerle wrote:

Here is the prototype minutes after it was completed. It won't be long now.
Fred Gerle

Here is the street legal version.
NOW to help ya,
YES I did a "market study" by checking header requests for our rides.
Guess who chimed in?
1985 to 1992
NOW the earlier years have AIR tubes on them, very few of these rides still exist on the road and very very very few want to install headers on these carb'd rides.
NOW with limited mareket appeal and a close to $5,000 testing price for a street legal headers to be submitted to CARB approval, what would you, as a manufacturer, do?
Sorry to exclude "some". Not like this project happened overnight, word has been around about this project for atleast a year.
IF enough (3rd Gen V6 82-84 FBody) people do contact Mr. Fred Gerle at Pace Setter Exhaust, perhaps something can be done.
I did get us a set of STREET LEGAL HIGH PERFORMANCE HEADERS FOR THE 1985-1992 V6* F Body!
Get your money ready everyone!
Hey Dean I was gonna send ya an email, but YOU NOW KNOW!!!!!!

 

 

somebody get me a towel

 

THIS IS GREAT!!!!!!!!

 

Show your enthusaism and support by purchasing this STREET LEGAL HEADER SYSTEM FROM PACE SETTER EXHAUST!

 

wut kind of horsepower boost u think well be pullin out of these headers?

 

Atleast a solid 10 HP gain the entire RPM Power band!
And remember, the engine can now breathe with a better flowing exhaust system.
Thus your RPM gain is also somewhat faster, too.
The more stuff you have previously done (ignition, solid drivetrain, and fresh air intake set up) the better will be the return on power gain, too.
BUT your car will NOT transform underhood into a V8 engine!

 

so whats the price? $300 or above? nah thats ok.

 

Yes... price and specs please! What size are the primaries? How about the collector? The Y pipe size?

Thanks!

 

I've seen on e-bay uncoated 3.4 & 3800 Pace Setter headers w/y-pipe for around $250~$275. That is a VERY reasonable price for what you get. AND it's 50 State Legal.

 

Like I stated before when ever this was first metioned the post was for headers for 60*V6. Not 85-92 V6 F-Body. After awhile that particular post just started consisting of "have you heard of any progress reports" which was basically narrowed down to the same people asking and repling.

As far as there being fewer 82-84 f-bodies on the road compared to 85-92. You are comparing 3 years to 7 years so of course there are fewer models on the road. Compare how many 1985 models are on the road compared to 90-92 models.

Where was this market research conducted? Just on this site? In states that are hard on emissions where people are more hesitant to do anything to there vehicles?

I am not tring to start anything with you b/c I agree with some points.

For instance it is easier to swap a V8 into an 82-84 model b/c the computer controlled less and you don't get involoved in little details like fuel pumps etc. SO many may have selected to just do a V8 swap instead of putting money into the V6. Which like I posted before for me it would actually be cheaper to do a V8 swap than to start upgrading my V6.

I have owned my Camaro since 1988 so you name it I have probably tried it a long time ago; Cams, open element air cleaner, 3" exhaust, replacment pipe instead of converter, Kickdown Kits, etc. and always want more so my next logical step would be the V8.

Anyways lets just let that whole thing drop and concentrate on what Dale and I have been posting.

It will not be difficult for owners of 82-84 to make these headers work. The EGR plate on the header will need blocked off since there EGR's are on the intake, The O2 sensor wire will either need lengthen or provissions made in the header or Y pipe which any machine shop could do. All the "Air Tube" does is let air into the converter after a deverter valve is open. Just by pass it and either get a converter w/o the nipple for the air tube or cap their's off, or if there is room between the headers bolt you smog equippment back on. I have been running my Camaro for a year with the converter air tube inlet capped off with no problems. That is basically b/c you can't purchase the air tube anymore. (if someone knows where you can pruchase one please let me know).

I am not tring to discourage anyone with 82-84 model years just let them know that the Pace Setter headers can be made to work. If anything I am tring to broaden the market.

 

I think the main concern here is not with fitment, but with the CARB E.O. only applying for 85-92. As you detailed thoroughly, modifying them for fitment for 82-84 should be a snap... they just won't pass CARB equivalent emissions inspection.

 

Hi All.
I agree on your call of my "method of marketing" the product.
Out here in Southern California, we see everything lingering on the road, due to the rust free environment. I can tell ya how many 3rd Gens I currently see on road.
I can tell ya how any Carb'd V6s I see in wrecking yard.
I was asked by manufacturer about the earlier years.
I had to offer my own real world response judgement call.

Contact Mr. Fred Gerle at fgerle@pacesetter.com to ask about inclusion of the 82-84 years, prior to submission of these V6 3rd Gen 85-92 pipes.
THE BIGGEST DRAWBACK, is finding a suitable candidate (82-84 V6) for fitment engineering the product.
Overcome that one hurrdle and ya may be home free!
My Blazer is a carb'd V6 model, but street legal pipes for those have been available since almost day one.

With the marketing product potential I saw and the probability of which product could be made, quicker and the costs recouped for the manufacturer, quicker, the end result product is best I got us.
I wish more early model owners would have chimed in. But, again, the door is open for ya, and Mr. Gerle is a wonderful gentleman. Give it a shot!

 

A personal note.....
I think that it is great that we can basically agree and be on the same page on this topic...It just proves that it is possible to have a MATURE DEBATE without resulting in NAME CALLING & PUT DOWNS with no RESPECT lost for any of the involved parties.

Ked & Dale you are a shinning example to us all

 

cc, I sent an email to pacesetter about a "problem" I saw with the headers.

I also mentioned what we "thought" might be needed to make these fit 82-84 carb versions. I offered him the website, and asked him to see and join. Maybe he will just read and not post. But something was said in hopes to include you later in the game.

 

Yeah if the forum was more like this them maybe more people would post here.

 

This Third Gen Org & the especially the V6 section, 99% of time, is one ray of sunshine in my busy day!

Everyone here makes the difference.
Be it positve or negative, it's your decision to offer your response or a comment.
I certainly enjoy reading a positve constructive comment anyday.
Negative constructive comments are ALWAYS encouraged.
In the end, anyone who took time to say a short positive encouraging we want this product "Hello" to Mr. Fred Gerle, receives a big pat on the back.

By Pace Setter Exhaust, I was asked and offered all the knowledge I knew of (design changes in the V6 engine bay of the 1982-1992 model years).
Again, any other specific knowledge, now is the time to chime in and contribute your knowledge to Pace Setter Exhaust and Mr. Fred Gerle. Please include a picture of your example situation you notice ommitted from these pipes.
fgerle@pacesetterexhaust.com
Be sure to say "Thank You!" also!

Thanks everyone, because, now I can purchase a street legal set up, myself! Without everyones help, I could not do this (purchase headers & do an easy smog check) in California.

 

I think its a great thing that these will be avalible now and my previous post wasnt ment to down play the effort all involved put into making this happen. Im just more into car audio then performance. I do plan on doing the 3.4 swap. But im doing it for overall drivabilty not racing.

:hail: Great job to all who helped make it happen :hail:

 

I looked at their site, based on the 3.4 headers, which it appears they chopped a set up to make them. 1.25 tubes and 2.25 collectors?? seems to be the size.

cc, btw, we all have our days and "peeves". Your right, atleast we are all being adults about the differences.

 

Well halfpint, no wonder you were fighting for PF&E.. your a banned member that bought them....

Anyway, not debating with you on the quality of the "other" guy, but those P/S'rs look 1000% better. actually cut and tuned.

HELL YEAH BABY...

Well my other engine swap fell through (the junk yard pulled BS) still fighting for the engine but.. I was looking at the 3.4 swap. now that their are deffinately GOOD, No FREAKIN GREAT HEADERS very close at hand I might just get the 3.4...

Hey Ked, shoot me a message when they get a price and arrival date.