KED85

IF car runs, simply use a LONG screwdriver and stick it on the ALTERNATOR HOUSING and stick plastic end at ear.
You'll hear amazing things!
You are listenng for loud noises.
For comparison, then stick it on the waterpump for "same trick". See what ya hear.
It's trial & learning ya going thru.
Splicing wires..........that's up to you.
Go get a long stick like for stirring paint & try moving those wires & see if any change!
My alternator the pulley moved in & out, causing the spike. I heard the bearings making "noise" & became suspicious. I used that screwdriver trick.
PS the NOISE travels, it's most entertaining tool you may find in your box!

camaro350man

Okay, I played with it yesterday for a while. Very interesting. The alternator is not making an odd noise or anything but voltage does drop if I just let it sit and idle with the lights on. I think I will take it off and have them test it for me and see what happens. I have a new battery so thats not the issue. I don't like splicing wires but how else can i change that gray connecter? I'm hoping that it will help with the problem. That clicking noise is still there from the coil. If I plug my other coil in, (stock one in stock location still) theres no noise that i can here. You said it probably grounding out on the chasis. Why can I here the clicking noise inside the car, sounds like something is vibrating or is loose but i know its the coil. You can here it only at idle because i think my exhuast makes ya forget about it Thanks again for all the help

KED85

Go to the wrecking yard and "find your car"
Examine what things ya suspect and check out your car for......
Again you are there, we can only suggest.
It still sounds like you are getting closer.
Try a LONG rubber hose section (heater core stuff), pointed at coil area, and other end at your ear.
See what happens. Follow the sound.
Try to solve before the alternator is pulled.
Because this "noise" may be the source of "alternator power drain", too.
In th end you are having a grounding issue.

camaro350man

I'm hoping their is a short somewhere in that coil wire. I will get one from the yard and go from there. See what happens. I checked the engine ground and that is fine. I also followed the ground that comes off the alternator, that seems to run under the airbox into some kind of a plug. Wheres it go? I hate splicing into the harness if i don't have to. But will do what i have to. Anything else i could give a try? Hope to get this fized then the clutch as you guys prob read lol

KED85

Another clue
ELECTRICAL GREMLINS SUCK!!!!!!!
Really, true. Been there.

Try a car that wouldn't shut off unless I pulled coil wire!
BUT it would shut down (with key off) electrical system (as in cooling fan!).
I ended up taking it to a genius & he traced it to the block plug up front corner passenger side radiator support. MY previous owner had it in accident and yep accident affected that wire block. Another clue for ya, too.
Any where was an accident (body damage), could be the location of the cause of problems.

camaro350man

Okay, I will also look into that box you are talking about, I don't believe my car was involved in any accidents but you never know. The car runs awesome other then manifolds and the wires. I'm still waiting on injecotors. Maybe they are just suppose to be like that, ( i wish) My theory is the gray connector on top of the coil is not seal good because the clip is shot. I think its grounding onto the metal that holds the coil on. What do you think? I will get another and go from there. If thats not it, I will look into the alternator and see what happens. If thats not it. I have no clue. But I'm trying.

KED85

BIG CLUE
MY FIREBIRD WIRING SYSTEM WILL BE DIFFERENT THAN YOUR CAMARO!
NOT ALL BUT, "just enough!"
Try the rubber hose trick I said to listen for clicking.
And you'll be able to see the lightening clicking between any spot "you suspect".
You can always try slipping that connection into rubber hose/spark plug boot & see what happens. Electricty does have trouble "leaking thru rubber".

camaro350man

I also have a firebird lol. Not sure if you were just joking there. I have the day off so I plan on working on it. I tried looking for spark at night but can't seem to see where it could be grounding out. The noise is more of a vibrataing noise. It very odd but its coming from the coil. Could it just be a bad coil or would a bad coil not run the car at all. I plan on going to the bone yard today, anything I should look for? Thanks

KED85

It was the Camaro350man that distracted me from seeing your ride is....
I think you are on right track, but with all wire movings, something is close to be discovered or "made worse".
Vibrating coil, hmmmmmmm......I'd ask a female about that question!!!!!LOL!
Try to squeeze a mirror somewhere by coil to see "back side of activity".
Or again stick some heater core hose between things.
Or beat up spark plug wire boot material, too.
You're close, I am sure.
And yep, it could even be the alternator, too.
Electric Gremlins SUCK!


I plan on going to the bone yard today, anything I should look for?
Another car? LOL
Have fun hunting!

Serious, seems you are very close.
I discovered once my electrical problem/solution once by chance. So keep at it!

camaro350man

I got another connection but you can just splice in wires, its a pretty big wire. Thick. So I don't want to cut anything. I tried poking around wires and looking today but i still don't see anything. It runs good, other then those wires glowing at night, in the day it looks good. I'm going to see if I can take some pics of my motor and wires. Maybe it will help us out here. There a bird in the junkyard that makes me sick, its got 70000 miles on it, 89, exact to mine, execpt its an auto. Thing has no rust or anything, interior was mint. Looks like he hit a pole. The car is now all beat up in the yard, scratches, int is crap. Makes me sick looking at it. He wants 300 for the motor, a little steep if you ask me. He got a couple 3.4s but lots of milage, and they haven't been run in a while. Anyway, I'm off to go work on it more, thanks

theratdude64

I Miiiight have a set of injectors. I have a parts 2.8 at my dads place. I duno if I am allowed anywhere near them though, stupid stepmom

Dizturbed One

CHECK YOUR GROUNDSTRAPS!

It is the easiest thing on earth to go out, and also one of the easiest to check. Don't leave it out, I've had NUMEROUS problems with bad grounds on SEVERAL cars.

My alternator kept frying due to a bad ground on my Nissan Maxima.

The stereo in my Camaro just plain WOULD NOT WORK WHATSOEVER because of a bad ground (and it seemed to be grounded very well, but I burnished the metal and put a brand new connector on the wire and voila')

KED85

The stereo in my Camaro just plain WOULD NOT WORK WHATSOEVER because of a bad ground (and it seemed to be grounded very well, but I burnished the metal and put a brand new connector on the wire and voila')

Are you saying you used the SAME original ground wire?
Do you also suggest, from the stereo chassis, an additional ground wire.
I've got an intermittant grouding problem with my stereo. SOMETIMES during radio operation, I hit the brakes and suddenly appears ignition whine.

See electrical gremlins suck!

camaro350man

Thanks man. I spent 2 hours today and i have gotten no where with it. I can't splice the wire because it is to darn thick, wouldn't be a good connection. So not sure what to do about that coil connection. Also (ked85) the way you have your coil mounted, does it move at all? Mine moves back and force and vibrates when idling. Can't be good for it. Any ideas how to fix that. Wires still glow at night, but are not grounding out. LOST

molopaa

iTrader: (1)

Dumb question:

Have you considered the possibility, that the ticking noise is due to the coil bouncing/vibrating?

KED85

For my mounting, I placed it on thick straps of aluminum.
I mounted brackets to firewall, under that lip.
Does it move?
No?
Should coils be mounted to help releive vibration?
Yes.
Is this your problem?
Not really.
Try the hose trick, follow the plug wires
PERHAPS you will find your problem that way.
You have a 2 foot section of hose?
One end in ear & other follow all spark plug wires, see if "clicking" is loudest one spot.
Before ya do this, tho, pull each plug wire & see what ya see.
Perhaps a plug boot is melted by extreme heating factor and there is your grounding problem.
Do this while engine is cold, tho!
Frustration is the main player right now, but your problem is real simple to fix. Finding is the fun factor!

camaro350man

Thanks man. I tried that, bu they still grow, again they do not ground out on the motor, but you can see spark running threw them. Goes faster when you revv it up. I don't know. I did one wire at a time and still the same. Any other ideas?

What was that grounding problem you said I should check? Thanks

KED85

The grounding is the action you see, the sparks on the plug wires & such.
IF you have done all you can
You may have to go to a mechanic for the solution.
Again we're out here for ya, but you are the hands operating, Doctor

camaro350man

Two mechcanic today looked at it and said, you have more of an idea them me lol. The wires are not grounding, they just light it up. Its hard to explain. Do all coils make a ticking noise, i was told they do because of all the electricity and thats normal? Thanks again

theratdude64

I duno if you need it, but people were talking about injectors farther up, I got my fuel rail and injectors outta my dads garage if your interested... I can get pics

camaro350man

I actually sent some out to cruizin performance. I may be interested in them if you want to wait a bit.

KED85

Do you have a lightening storm going on, on your spark plug wires?
I "guess" coils could make a clicking sound, but I've never heard one.
Now the injector system, SURE THING! it clicks, but coils?
AND with the new fangled car electrical systems, you really think Detroit would release a car that makes an electrical spark on the plug wires, as a normal option?
Boy you must have some of the worse mechanics your neck of woods! IF they say you're brighter than they are!

camaro350man

NO lightning storm. How do i explain this, its tough. Light a glow stick. it glows in certain areas. Not lighting. i hope that helps

KED85

I can only ask
A picture of this occurance?
Damn I feel like I'm asking about a UFO!!

KED85

Try not to get grease or oil on the wires when you install them, wash your hands first.
Grease/oil can get into the wire's insulation and cause spark leak.

Hey a good response from TomP about what may be happening to your situation.
YOu may need to swap out your current set to try again, newer plug wires.
Hope it's a clue

theratdude64

I think he mentioned hes on his 3rd set of plug wires I am stumped, no clue what could do this

TomP

LOL, KED! I was thinking "Hey, didn't I just type those exact words?"

A corona around the base of the spark plug, where it pokes out of the head, is normal. That would appear to be a bluish glow at the bottom of the spark plug boot.

Are you saying the entire spark plug wire length is glowing? What kind of wires did you buy? If they were cheap 7mm sets (they sell a set by me, made by Carol, for $12) then the insulation and/or wire quality might not be enough to hold in the voltage.

Personally, I can't wait until you get the fixed set of injectors in- it's been what, 2 years since you've had those leakers?

KED85

Atleast I gave the originating writer credit!
I am kinda stumped, too.
I mean I've tossed out so many angles, variations on the theme.
But we ain't there to say our ya's & nah's on his path of solution progress.
I have "some grease" on my plug wires but again once before I saw my path of grounding contact and moving that "contact grounding point" removed my problem.

Don't know what else to throw out, unless a pic is shown. But to me, no leak is the norm, not "some glow".
It could be the heat from too hot manifolds creating the problem, too (heat expands the rubber to create weak point grounding path).

camaro350man

Thanks guys,

I tried accell plats. 8.8, then autolites, the some cheapo ones. They all did the same. I'm as stumped as you guys are. There are random glowing points in the wires that flicker and flicker faster if I rev it up. Very strange. They are not grounding on the motor at all. I doubt I can take a picture because it will not show it Very suprised no one has ever witnessed this. Pop your hood in a very dark place. The motor doesn't misfire at all. Runs a bit rough sometimes but i think it fuel related. I can't wait to do the injecotors either

KED85

Instantly,
do the plug wires glow?
Or after a bit?
FROM WHAT I'VE EVER SEEN
The whole wiring system glows, not just "points".
AND at ONE point of all the glowing, does the spark jump.
HOW I FOUND MY CONTACT POINT, was by accident.
I saw a terminal at my coil, sparking to metal of engine. And that wasn't proper.
I moved that contact point (twisted coil slightly) problem disappeared.
Never since.
I also saw this day time, as that how was bright, the spark.
A clue.

camaro350man

It glows the same weather warm or hot. The spark never jumps. The odd thing I have noticed is if i touch the wire and it glows where my hand is. Like its attracted to it? Maybe that will help.

KED85

You are then acting as a ground, also.

camaro350man

I don't know what to do. I'm going to take some pictures today and see if I can post them up. Any grounds that I should be looking for? I know its not grounding out at all.

KED85

I'm at a loss for ya at this point.
You should be finding an electrical genius now.

theratdude64

Jims85! or whatever his screen name is, with the badass screen that looks factory. He's an electrical engineer isnt he?

KED85

I now believe the source of your problem lies with distributor.
The wiring to distb could be worn.
Only part you haven't truly touched or moved, true?

camaro267

Did you check the gaps of the plugs before putting them in? Do you have the right plugs? (the origanal engine). For your injectors ever take them apart to clean them.?
After doing all this did you time the engine with a timing light?
Check your spark plug wires with a ohm's meter for risitance.
Check your injectors with an ohms meter.
You can also try a cooler spark plug.

camaro350man

OKay guys, finally was able to dig up spme pics of the way it is now. Doubt it will help but maybe.









Like my cat? HAHA, I have to weld it sometime though

camaro267

I don't know if you have solved your trouble. Hear is what I found. I was working on my engine, trying to find that knocking problem?. Ok here goes. played with the distributor. Got the knocking out of the engine. The ? is why it went away? Well it was so out of wack that was not workable. Here is what happened. Got that glow on the exhaust and terrable fuel milage and no torque. If I was you I would check your timing and your distributor if it ant out of wack. I had one in a 4.3 that went bad. Good luck.

KED85

I SEE YOUR PROBLEM RIGHT AWAY!!!!!
MOVE THE DAMN PLUG WIRE AWAY FROM COIL.
A-W-A-Y!!!!!!!!
REPLACE THAT BLACK COIL WIRE WITH A HIGH QUALITY COIL WIRE!
WHAT TYPE OF PLUG WIRE SET GIVES YOU JUST ONE ACCEL PLUG WIRE?
EVER HEAR OF PLUG WIRE SEPARATORS?
BASIC DETAILS HERE ARE GOING TO SOLVE YOUR SPARK ON PLUG WIRE.
INCLUDING AWAY FROM HEAT SOURCES.
PROBLEM WILL BE NOW SOLVED!

'91TealRS

Hey this thread ended suddenly, what finally happened?

I had numerous problems with my '91 3.1L, I think the timing may be way off. The timing indicator is moveable, check and make sure it hasn't been moved. Mine was moved all the way left (counterclockwise), so when it showed correct timing, it was 10+ degrees advanced. Even a diagnostic scan didn't find that, had the real bad "lean mis-fire) smell and all. I only found it when I changed the timing chain, and loosely put things on to check.

You can check by getting the crankshaft keyway at 30 degrees left, that is when number 1 is at TDC. The keyway lines up to the number one journal.

Good Luck