Maverick H1L

iTrader: (8)

Running DIS on an engine built for it is simple. The wiring just hooks up to the ECM, but you need to retune the ECM chip (or find one out of an FWD car... I have like 3 of them) for the change in base ignition timing. The upper plenum (the part that says "3.4 SFI") can't be used with the distributor. The lower plenum is the same. The fuel rail attaches to the fuel lines on a 4th gen with those crappy quick connect fittings (that are SUCH a PITA to disconnect), and the fuel pipes run the wrong way, which is why you would need to swap the fuel rail as well.

gfranklin2308

If I take the one out of the FWD car will it be an easy swap of the ECM. Will I need to tune it also. I know that I am going to tune it after the turbo is in, but I am going to do this one step at a time. Is there hugh benefits to doing the DIS system over the distrubutor. Do you know of a thread on here with performance parts for the 3.4 with a turbo in it. If I tear down the motor, I should probably replace some parts with decent performance parts.

Thanks again guys. If its easier to take this to a PM I can do that to so I don't overload Dale's thread with questions.

Maverick H1L

iTrader: (8)

Well, if you keep the 3.4 injectors on the rail, the ECM doesn't need to be tuned (as according to the famous KED85's tech article on the 3.4 swap boogie). Therefore, if you use a chip from an FWD vehicle that already has the 60* base timing offset for the DIS ignition that has the same fuel tables as the engine you already have, you're good to go, until you toss a spooly thingy at it.

As for the internals, there isn't much of anything much better than what's already in there. Just make sure the bearings and seals are good. Also, you'll want a high-output oil pump for the spooly thing. There were performance bearings available from GM, but I don't know for sure if they still have the parts in stock (the numbers I have are O L D). About the only thing you can improve upon is the pistons. Also, if you're going to be throwing a turbo at the engine anyways, and tuning the chip regardless, let it breathe better and throw on a set of heads and intake from a late model 3400 or 3500, which have more flow both into and out of the smaller chambers (which also increase CR, so you'd have to change pistons to a different dish size anyways).

RoosterC

I didn't see any information as to about how much this cost you (or would cost). Do you have a pricing or estimate?

evilemokid94

iTrader: (6)

couple questions, for the water pump do i get one for my 2.8 or the 3.4?, same with any of the gaskets like the exhuast manifolds, 3.4? is the water pump for the 2.8 aswell? also i have an 86 2.8 with a 700R4 tranny, when i do this swap all i have to do is swap my accesorys, sensors, ect right? no wiring modification? it just drops right in on the old 2.8 moter mounts right?

Dale

iTrader: (12)

Water pump depends on which timing cover you use.

Exhaust gaskets, IIRC all 3 motors use the same felpro gasket.

Should be no wiring modifications.

evilemokid94

iTrader: (6)

okay, im using the 2.8 pan, timing cover, fuelrail, intake, dizzy, sensors, ect. anything else? can i use the 3.4 exhaust manifold? or do i need to pull my 2.8s?

Dale

iTrader: (12)

ok, if your using 2.8 tc and accessorys, stay with the 2.8wp.

I would advise using your 2.8 manifolds, the 3.4's arnt quite the same for bolting to the y-pipe. But have been known to be forced to work. As well they have o2 sensors in them which if any visual smog checks are done, will raise a flag.

If penetrating oil wont get the bolts loose, use a small bottle of map gas and heat the manifold by the bolt for a bit tell its hot, then try braking loose. Ive had to use a 1/2 drive ratchet, a 6point socket, with a cheater-pipe on the end before.

evilemokid94

iTrader: (6)

i dont have inspections here in indiana but im gonna use the 2.8 manifolds since its easier.

could i let the car run so it heats up those bolts itsself and then do it? my cars still running but iv got a rod knocking

Dale

iTrader: (12)

Possibly.... Just enough to get them broke loose. Then let cool and finish taking them out.

bison999

okay sorry for raising the whole thread up again, but i have a question can this work with the carbed 2.8?? any differences other than maybe the intake manifolds?? id really appreciate it if i got an answer

Dale

iTrader: (12)

Yes it will work on a carb. You have the flywheel/flexplate that you need to get from a 90+ motor. Also, Ive heard something about the timing belt cover, but dont remember what it was.

It will be a big improvement for you as the carbed 2.8's had small valve heads. So you will be increasing the ci, but also head flow as well.

bison999

thanks!!! really helped alot, really planning on doing something cause this 2.8 just isnt enough.

Project 3.4 Camaro

If memory serves the difference in valve size was rather miniscule, still, the power improvement over the 2.8 carbed motor should be rather substantial.

alienbishop

Hi Dale, i am doing 3.4 engine swap in my 3.1 RS, my goal is to make it all as simple as possible, so i think using 3.4 bottom with 3.1 oil pan, and add 3.1 top is the way to go, sorry maybe a dumb question but which intake manifold do i have to use, 3.1 or 3.4?
Thanks in advance
P.S. Sorry for my english, not my native tongue and i don't live in USA

Dale

iTrader: (12)

3.4 block
3.1 oil pan
3.1 intake manifold(3 piece)

Your English was just fine!

Project: 85 2.8 bird

I was able to use the 3.4 oil pan on my swap, only thig I aw diff than the rusted 2.8 pan was an oil level sensor on the 3.4, still cleared the k-mbr, fwiw

alienbishop

Thanks for your answer I was just wandering what if i will just replace 3.4 oil pan with 3.1 oil pan, and use whole 3.4 engine with 3.4 injection, will i be able to hook it to 3.1 engine wiring and computer? and maybe just install 3.1 sensors to 3.4 engine?

Project 3.4 Camaro

3.1 oil pan and timing cover, 3.4 block+rotating assembly, heads don't matter, 3.1 LIM, 3.1 fuel rail using 3.4 fuel injectors(3.4 fuel rail won't work) 3.1 MIM and plenum, and your car's engine harness, comp, and sensors, If I recall I think you have to swap oil adaptor housings as well, I think that's everything though.

drdave88

iTrader: (3)

You can use the 3.4 pan. I used it when I swapped mine.

Dale

iTrader: (12)

You need to use the 3.4 knock sensor, 3.4 injectors, but the rest of the 3.1 sensors.

I dont think I did anything to the oil filter area other then replace the gasket which was a dealer only item at the time I did it.

RubberDucky

iTrader: (4)

I just used my 2.8 pan, but they all work.
I used the housing off my 2.8 when I swapped mine, the 3.4 was slightly different.

The biggest pain was the plug on the passenger side head where my car had a temp sensor, I just never removed the plug.

alienbishop

Could you explain why can't i use intake manifold, plenum, and fuel rail from 3.4 engine?
I really appreciate your help people! my car is the only thirdgen Camaro in my country, (there were some more but i have not seen them in years) so i hope i will put this baby on the road soon!!

Dale

iTrader: (12)

The throttle bodys wont swap from intake to intake, and the 3.4 I think uses a different throttle cable.

The fuel rail, the way the fuel lines connect up is totally different.

As always, anything can be made to fit and work, its how much effort for what gains? We are telling you the easiest/no problem route.

alienbishop

Thanks again now i understand, and the easiest/no problem route is exactly what i need.

RubberDucky

iTrader: (4)

To support what Dale said.
Top: 2.8
Bottom: 3.4

alienbishop

Yeah i understand about fuel rail and upper intake manifold, but 3.1 and 3.4 lower intake manifolds look almoust the sme, is there real difference which one to use? and does 3.1 intake manifold provide at least same airflow as 3.4?

58mark

iTrader: (3)

look at the second photo from above. there is a MAJOR difference in the two manifolds

yes it's possible to take a 3.4 with the 93-95 setup and install it in a third gen, but I imagine you would have to change the wiring harness, the computer and a lot of other things that in the end wouldnt give you much of a change over the stock third gen setup. Chances are if it's a worthwhile change, it would be a more common mod, and I've never seen it done (but it probably has been, by somebody)

Dale

iTrader: (12)

Someone did an airflow test, and the 3.4 upper flowed worse then the 2.8/3.1.

As for the 3.1/3.4 lower. I honestly dont remember what the difference was. I want to say the IAT is threaded in the front of the 3.1 intake, where the 3.4 it is facing up? (if you have one of both the 3.1/3.4, can you post some pics like ducky did?)

58mark

iTrader: (3)

well there you go. no advantage, which explains why nobody does it

alienbishop

Wow, that is so strange, they updated intake manifold just to make it worse! what were they thinkin!

I will have 3.4 motor in one week, and i will then post side by side pics of 3.1 and 3.4 lower intakes

alienbishop

Yeah actualy i was sure that you guys here know what you're saying, but i too wanted to understand

RubberDucky

iTrader: (4)

This, and the fact that if you are coming from 2.8 you need the 2.8 lower. It has vacuum connectors and fuel connectors on it.

alienbishop

My original engine is 3.1

Project: 85 2.8 bird

i think I used the 2.8 base manifold due to the cold start injector, gotta see if I can recover all my swap pics...

also the 3.4 upper intake manifold is cut down in size towards the back to clear the 4th gen cowl

RubberDucky

iTrader: (4)

Easiest and fewest headaches would be to keep your 3.1 parts. All you really need from the 3.4 is the block and heads. Everything else swaps over.

alienbishop

Finally i got my 3.4 engine! it has only 30 000 miles and is in perfect conditon! this weekend i am doing some cleanup in my garage and next weekend i will start my swap!

But i got one more question, i read somwhere that you have to reprogram 3.1 computer if you are installing 3.4 injectors, or you will have some problems, any info or advise about that?

58mark

iTrader: (3)

never heard that before. I've only heard to install the 3.4 injectors to make it run better, not worse

Dale

iTrader: (12)

Incorrect. If your installing a 3.4 block, and 3.4 injectors(17lb), no change to ecm.

However, if you put a 3.4 block in, and 19lb injectors, it will run funky in cold mode, and tad rich at normal op temp if you dont program the ecm.

alienbishop

Understood, i will try to find the source of my information anyway and post a link here, i think it was somwhere on Third Gen mesaageboards.

Dale

iTrader: (12)

I should say, all the cars could benefit from an individual tune. But it will run fine with stock settings.

RubberDucky

iTrader: (4)

I thought the 3.1 injectors were 17lb and the 3.4 injectors were 19? I know the 2.8 injectors are 15.

Dale

iTrader: (12)

IIRC, 2.8 is low 15lb, 3.1 is high 15lb. 3.4 I do very much remember are 17lb. I tried putting ford orange 19lbs in, and it ran like crap.

RubberDucky

iTrader: (4)

Hmm, learned something new today. Lol. Thanks boss.

KG427KG427

iTrader: (1)

3.4 gets better gas mileage than the 3.1.

Can anyone in California do this swap for me I have a 3.1 stock looking to swap a 3.4

KG427KG427

iTrader: (1)

Dale is engineering my Camaro !!!!

Oh boy !!!

KG427KG427

iTrader: (1)

Is this true ???


If my goal is to get the best mpg would keeping my 3.1 and boring the heads be better for fuel efficiency than putting in a 3.4 ??????

RubberDucky

iTrader: (4)

Yes.

I just did this swap not even 4 months ago. All you need from the 3.4 is the block and heads. The whole intake, exhaust manifolds, front accessories, and mounts from your 2.8 or 3.1 will be used onto the 3.4 longblock.


The 3.1 and 3.4 share a 1 MPG difference according to the government, so if you're doing it for just mileage, you're wasting your time and money.

KG427KG427

iTrader: (1)

If my 3.1 has 310k miles on it doesn't it make sense to get a 3.4 block and rebuild it while I'm still driving my 3.1 that way when I have my 3.4 as ready as it can be I will have less down time.

Should I buy a new 3.4 block or just rebuild a used 1993-95 from junkyard.

RubberDucky

iTrader: (4)

The swap isn't that bad. Everything bolts up, its more or less pull one out, put parts on the new one, then put the new one in.

Just find a good running motor. I bought a possible rebuilt 88k mile 3.4 out of a 95 RS for $200. All I ended up using from it was block and heads.