drdave88

iTrader: (3)

hey doward, when did you become a mod? now youre "one of them" lol. just kiddin man

Naft

https://www.thirdgen.org/techbb2/sho...hreadid=346652

Doward

Yep yep.. so if anyone sees any problems around here, point them out to me

Gumby

Ooooh Ooooh can I be the first person you put on probation?

It would be my honor.

Cause I think EDIT is a $*^&$# %&*% mod.

Gumby

Item number: 8038559486

besides making a bracket to mount solid in ac side of car and the duct work.......

Looks to simple?
1 day project?
$200-220 job if you got some scrap steel around n the tools.

daves12secV6

iTrader: (3)

hmm were u have it labeled as plug do u mean plug that hole?

boost level?
max boost level?
cost of unit?
and on the car it originally came on how big is the crank pully if ours is bigger it will speed the charger up.if ours is smaller it will slow the thing down
edit ----
how big is the outlet on that thing
i see room being an issue with ur idea

stocker85

definetly found on 94/95 buick park ave ultras,,,,,,,,,,,looks long,,,,,,,,and thats the short snouts

Doward

Yeah, the bracketry would be the fun part of that one...

eh, Gumby, relax.

Naft

im looking into that right now myself, and the answer is to use the thunderbird supercoupe M90, because it has the discharge on top instead of the bottom, and it doesnt have the long back neck that the GM one has. You wont be able to hook anything up to the inlet on the GM supercharger because the firewall will be in the way. the ford version has a good 4"+ extra clearance back there.

You want it mounted where the alternator is, so the answer would be to put the alternator where the AC is and the supercharger where the alt was. reason is because you want the highest draw accessory first in the rotation, cant remember exactly why but its a significant why.

I havent done any test fitting, cause i dont have my car with me right now, but over summer or maybe spring break im gonna hit up the j-yards, grab myself an m90 and get to work. keep me posted if you figure anything out and ill be sure to do the same!

daves12secV6

iTrader: (3)

im still thinking basic 5-7 psi turbo will be easier and cost about the same

daves12secV6

iTrader: (3)

wow i just checked on that turbo i was gonna bid on that was at 55$'s( was gonna bid at the ast minute) its over 200$'s now

Naft

i think this could get done cheaper, all the fab this takes is gonna about match making exhaust for a turbo, maybe even easier, you can get a good blower for like $150, and thats about it(besides injectors, intake piping, tuning, etc; those go for both).

even a cheap turbo setup would be a lot better than this though, the reason im considering supercharging is because i live in the peoples republic of california, and i need to be able to switch back to stock every 1-2 years, which is a lot nicer with a supercharger than a turbo.

daves12secV6

iTrader: (3)

naft just use the stock manifold to mount a turbo, if ya dont run more then 6-7psi u dont need to change anything else besides getting an adj fuel pres regulator, so to swap back to non turbo ud just have to drop fp and remove the turbo from the manifold and reconect the ex pipe to the rest of the ex system( make the one sid eof the motor with a removable piece in the ex system this way u can switch between downpipe for the turbo and a reg ex system i.e no turbo

RSFreak

I was thinking of using an FMU like the one 89JYturbo has on his remote mount turbo (Cartech?). Anyone know of other options?

Naft

im planning on running ~10 psi, maybe more as time goes on, plus any modifications to the exhaust before the cat will fail a CA visual, so i would have to swap back to a whole stock y-pipe. plus i dont think i could be happy with a half-assed turbo system. with a half-assed supercharger i at least get instant boost, plus pretty much any supercharger system is half-assed already so its not a big deal.

Gumby

I say plug that hole as to me it just look to be some sort of bypass. Probably there for emission reasons.

blower like the 671 don't have it so.....
Id just plug it. Keep it simple. Air in , air out like a 671


That things isn't as big as you think, A 671 would fit in the space once the AC stuff is gone. 671 is big.

here is the long nose buick Item number: 8037806938

For me it looks just right. hook the maf on the back and run a 90* elbow straight up to hook into my ramair ducting on the hood or down to snake a normal intake.

don't have a clue about the pully ratio n stuff, my car is is mixed Vbelt n wide belt so there would be some fabin there involved.

Any PSI is good PSI

Id take just 3 PSI over none

The ford has an inlet on the top, but the outlet is tiny n odd shaped.
Item number: 8039363183

Gumby

Plus you could unhook the SC pretty easy. Im tryin to KISS
keep it simple stupid

no major mods, just hook up the belt and run the air in and out of it. Pully ratio will determin boost, id do my best to get as much boost as possiable but only what the stock system can handle.

stocker85

hey naft,,,,,,what year t-birds came with that,,,,,,,,,,,,,,also what other ford/merc vehicles,,,,,,,,,,the one in the pic you posted

Leo_padakin

do those superchargers just bolt up? what do you have to modify?

Naft

89-95 t-bird supercoupes, and mercury X7?'s. theyre all over ebay or you can go to a supercoupe forum and people are parting out the cars all over the place.

its not overall size, just length. im absolutely sure there is no room to put the maf and an elbow on the back of the GM one, even just an elbow is pretty questionable(if you moved the belt forward a few inches i can see it working maybe, but with stock belt location im pretty sure not. you have to rememeber the GM supercharger was designed for transverse applications, so it isnt designed to fit in any existing RWD engine bay(it may, but it wasnt designed for it, so there are definitly no guarantees. the ford one however is used solely in RWD applications).

exactly.

definitly not, its a completely custom job. you have to custom fab all the brackets and supports, align the pulleys, intake piping, etc.

stocker85

probably gonna have to get aluminum flange and piping made for heat dissipation,,,wonder how much force/speed you'll lose since the s/c aint mounted directly on top of it,,,,,,,,so,,,,then you have the s/c cost,,,aluminum pieces/welding,,,,make the brackets,,if you use the ford one,,might want to use the factory intercooler,and then the correct pulley size and alignment with the other accessories,,,,and hope you dont lose the belt at 6 grand,,,,,,,,,,,,,i don't know,,,,,maybe a turbo might be easier,,,,but let me know how it looks/works out

Leo_padakin

i might seriously think about this, the alignment of the pulleys would be the hardest part for me, a freind and i make turbo manifolds for hondas, so making flanges, and the piping will be problem. give me a few days to brians storm. and ill let you all know any designs.

Gumby

intercooler would just infalte that little bit of lose from it on the side. but its not to extreme as of yet. few ***** motors out there with it side mounted.

This kind of kit would sell big time though for all those in smog check zone. Which is full of folks dyin for easy smog pass performance parts.

4-6-8 bolts, 2 hose clamps, and one belt removal and your ready for the visual inspection.

Could also just not run it all the time.
Once complete, probably a 20min parking lot job.

daves12secV6

iTrader: (3)

i just found out how to bypass the ex on the turbo setup so i dont have to run the turbo all the time
one of those electric ex system cutouts or a manual cutoutwhen i dont need the power of the turbo i could reroute ex gass to bypass the turbo for better gas milage


what ya guys think?

madathlon

I think ur half way there.. U might need to one for the EX and one for the intake side.. just think about pulling air in the a non turning turbo..

Naft

oh and gumby, that hole thing your talking about plugging is the BOV, you'll probably want that.

daves12secV6

iTrader: (3)

something to keep in mind

Naft

ehh i wouldnt go by that, there are a lot more factors involved than that! for example, tiago from FFF put 14 lbs of intercooled boost on a 9:1 CR 3.4 with pump gas.

The_Raven

You're not serious?

I take it you've never driven owned a turbo car car before.

There's no need to run a bypass of this sort.

WIth turbo, and even supechargers, you can accelerate to top speed or a good portion of the way there, without going into boost (positive manifold pressure).
Turbos are load dependant, the higher the load, the more they spool and build boost.
When I would tow with my Jimmy, I would get into boost easier/quicker than when I was not towing.
Same difference between driving up a hill as compared to driving on a level road.
I could also control the boost with my right foot, meaning I could put the boost level on my gauge right where I wanted by adjusting how much throttle I gave.

Turbos are not "on and off" like people want to believe, there are many variables to how they react to the way vehicle is driven.

Gumby

NO BOV for me. gonna run it just like a 671 blower, air in air out.

xplane

now that dont make any sense i though that the reason you did use a super charger was the fact that it created boost instantly but the reason you use a turbo is less parasitic drag and higher possible boost as long as you can deal with the lag.

AM91Camaro_RS

a supercharger or a properly sized turbo will create instant boost when you step on the gas. if you're part throttle with either one, you won't be going into the boost side...either setup, the impellers are spinning but not fast enough to create air pressure until you put the load on everything.

Nocturnall

How difficult would it be to set up a supercharger and a turbo? I wanna supercharge the engine I'm building before I put it in, don't really wanna try and do a turbo while I"m putting the motor in though.

daves12secV6

iTrader: (3)

the bypass is going to be so i can shut the turbo off completly so no matter what it wont kick in(i know a turbo isnt instant on/off)its just thats theres gonna be times i dont want it to kick in at all regardless of load or throttle opening. as for that chart naft i was just posting that as general info so u could see how high the effective cr was with x amount of boost

daves12secV6

iTrader: (3)

also u guys no anything about alcohol/methanol injection systems,i dont want to use water injection since i hear it kills hp

edit-----------------------------------------

take a look at this guys junk?
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/T3-TO...40226667QQrdZ1

Doward

Looks just like my T61

Leo_padakin

looks like the one on my friends rx7

daves12secV6

iTrader: (3)

ill gave to see how high the bids go on this one

The_Raven

Water injection works well and most people run a mix of water and alcohol, anyway.

turboregal.org (or something like that) used to have an excellant tech section that included a load of info about water/alcohol injection.

Quote:

edit-----------------------------------------

take a look at this guys junk?
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/T3-TO...40226667QQrdZ1

It would be nice if people knew what they were selling.

T3 has never had a V-band turbine discharge, nor a divided turbine inlet.

The seller is probably going on the idea of cashing in on the "Hybrid Hype". :roll:

Also that compressor section just doesn't look like a T4 to me.

Prime example of why I hate buying used, when I can't see the turbo in hand first.

Doward

4" inlet, 2.5" outlet... T04 or not, it's huge, and flows GOBS of air!

daves12secV6

iTrader: (3)

i was told u would make more hp with striaght up alcohol injection,over water/alc mix, and since my uncle runs an alc dragster,i wouldnt have to worry about not being able to get any when i need it

AM91Camaro_RS

the right mixture of alcohol and water will run better. straight alcohol is a lot easier, though.

The_Raven

Different kind of alcohol.

daves12secV6

iTrader: (3)

yeah i know its different. Its competition grade almost 100% pure methanol,should work great for a alc/methn injection system, the only problem i see is that it is exspensive and it evaporates very quickly.So id be hard to use on the street,mostly good for carrying around a 2 or 5 gallon jug to use at the track ,but i could in therory run upwards of 21psi without detonation , id just have to swap the stock rods for a set of small journal 327 rods, which i have a set of at work

The_Raven

If you believe you can use Alcohol racing FUEL, for alcohol injection, please do us a favour and get video of it.

TIA

Gumby

Ill spare ya some grief,

they don't use meth for injection

they use isopropyl which has water in it.
91% is the best walmart sells. %9 water
[ but pur not tap, don't inject tap water, or well]

just cheap rubbing alcohol, and some good sodium free pur water to mix down.

might as well just fill the thing with gas, if you use meth.
same thing will happen, ain't goona cool anything down.

daves12secV6

iTrader: (3)

somehow i think thats wrong,meth is very good for droping,and is very good for detonation resistance, besides the fact it would take 5x the amount of meth as it would say gas for a proper mixture, thats why im thinking meth injection in small amounts would work,even my uncle who builds alcohol/top fuel dragsters(chassis & engines)(thats what my shop does)says it would work better then alc/water injection if injected in the right amounts

The_Raven

OMG, do some research!

Methanol would be the WORST thing to try and use for alcohol injection.

Straight tap water would be better.

Doward

+1....

Dave, don't do it

daves12secV6

iTrader: (3)

can somone explain why its no good?
as so far i have a few ppl telling me why its no good,and on the other hand i have 2 engine builders,pointing out why its good and why it does work, so im pretty much lost now.

btw the last turbo car well truck actually we had in the shop (ford lightning) 302 turbo had a methanol injection system,and it was the same thing my uncle runs in his dragster, thats why im not seeing why this is a bad idea