My idea is simple, I want to build a domestic dragster built with import design philosophies. Light weight (thus the v6), fuel injected, lots of revs and a turbo to finish it off. I'm looking for about 350-400 hp and 8000 revs a minute. If I'm making peak power at 7500 that's only about 300 or so lb-ft of torque so that doesn't seem unreasonable. Anything that isn't necessary to run won't be on the car, sound insulation, A/C, even power steering.

I want to know if this idea is feasible. I was thinking of a late model 2.8 with manual transmission.

Can a 2.8 hold anything like that kind of power?
Will the block hold with forged internals?
Would a 3.4 hold better, I heard they got a ribbed block.
Could you fit the short throw crank from a 2.8 in a 3.4 block, to make it more rev happy?
What about later model 3.4 heads on a 2.8 block?
Aftermarket heads, do such things exist?
Would it be in any way possible to fit the DOHC heads from a cavalier Z34? (very much doubt, but hoping)
Can the gearbox and rear handle 300 lb-ft or will I need a different unit.
Do these cars come with LSD or whatever GM calls it, posi-trac I think?
Are there any good supplier of parts for the 60 degree V6 engines?
What's the rod to stroke ratios of the various engines?

And I'm sure I'll think of other things. Any help and information is great appreciated.

 

slow it down buddy, it must have taken you like half an hour to come up with all those questions, first of all why not take a 3.8 out of a 4th gen? no you can't put dohc heads on one of these v6's first of all the block has to be a dohc block and second of all the cavaliers are fwd cars, that wouldn't work at all. there isn't much of any kind of sound insulation in our cars but you could gut the whole interior and put lightweight seats in it. and you're definitely going to want to run a turbo to reach those kinds of numbers

 

Nah, only about 20 minutes. You confirmed what I'd read about the DOHC heads, figured that was a no go. As for why not a 3.8, cause that's a 90 degree V6, which means it's inherently unbalanced and won't want to rev as nicely. Revs are a corner stone of this plan, cause more revs = able to run shorter gears = going faster in less time.

 

the 60* motor lives very happily under boost,dont go with a 2.8 but rather a 3.1 or 3.4.the rods and crank are already forged,
ive already had my 3.1 under 18+ psi of boost(dynoed above 400 hp/tq)
u can swap on fwd aluminum heads but will require u to change over to a dis ign system,unless u make a custom sheetleatl manifold like i am doing.t-5 would not hold up under that kind of stress.,u would be better off with a auto/transbrake.allowing u to spool the turbo from the line anyways.

and btw there is no reason to spin a motor to 8000, i take mine just over 7,000,thgough depending on how u setup the car and what turbo u do use will decide how high u are gonna rev it

 

So the 2.8 doesn't come with a forged crank? And how much abuse can a t-5 take? Are there any other manual options, me and autos don't get along much. What did you have to do to get your engine up to 7000? I'm guessing you're running forged pistons, what kind of compression are you using?

 

if you have to have a manual a t56 would probably be a possibility

 

Isn't that the tranny that goes in the recent v8, rwd cars. Stuff like the 4th gen camaro and the corvette?

 

yeah it's a 6 spd manual it's a popular swap for 3rd gen v8 fbodies, but i've never seen it done on a v6

 

I think the V6 has a bolt pattern like a FWD, not sure if that would work.

 

i don't know, but if the t5 could be mounted to either the v6 or the v8 i don't see why you couldn't get a bellhousing to fit the t56 to the v6. right?

 

Makes sense I suppose. Or go with plan B and build a 302. I've read those used to rev to 9 grand.

 

the 2.8 comes with a fiorged crank/rods,th ereason fo rgoing with the 3.1/3.4 is nothing more then more displacement.auto+turbo is better then a stick and turbo.a t56 cannot be directly bolted to a v6,it requires a custom bellhousing adapter and a full custom clucth setup.turbos work on engine load,with a stick u cannot load the engine off the line,with an auto and a converter u can spool the turbo right on the line.my car leaves with around 7 psi of boost,u just cant do that with a manual trans

my old motor has a forged stock crank along with stock forged rods that were reworked and had arp wavelock bolts installed.i ran custom j.e forged pistions due to the high boost levels

im building a new motor now a 3.4 with a crower forged crankshaft.the connecting rods are h-beam sbc 327 small journal rods machines to fit the 60* motor.and once again custom forged j.e pistions.

im ditching my ported iron heads for a set of aluminum fwd canted valve heads,were talking like a huge gain over iron heads in terms of flow,in order to kep all my msd stuff i need to keep running my distributor,the dizzy doesnot fit with fwd heads cause of the intake manifold,so instead of making the swap,i am building a one off sheet metal manifold to fit the dizzy.

im going with a really large turbo on this new setup a t76 due to the very high boost im setup to run 21+ psi when alls said and done ill prolly be throwing 25 psi + the 35 shot of nitrous at the motor

im looking to make just over 550 hp with the new engine

 

Two words, bad ***.

I also understand completely how turbos work, I have a SAAB. If you have a manual you can hold the handbrake, rev the engine and drag the clutch to build boost. I completely acknowledge an auto is a better choice, but I just don't like them, too complicated. Plus while I want to do drag racing now, I might wanna do road racing in the future as well.

Hmmmm, I still think I'd rather go with the 2.8 crank. I want to build power up high and a shorter stroke with a better rod to stroke ratio will be better for that. If I use that in a 3.4 block that'll give me about 3.0L of displacement. Did the RWD 3.4 come with aluminum heads or is there a specific model I should be looking for? I suppose I'll look into distributorless ignition and bypass the whole mess you've got going on. What are you doing for a cam and valve springs.

 

no rwd engines came with those aluminum heads,the cam/spring info is the only thing i wont give out

 

All custom work? Can you at least point me to a supplier?

Oh, and how does something like this sound? Like any chevy V8 or completely different?

 

comp cams is who is doing my custom cam,as far as spings im going with lsx style valve springs

 

i'm with you dave! i'll give out a lot of motor specs but cam specs stay to myself! lol. sounds like we're gonna have a similar 3.4 turbo setup, though. I started on mine last year, you're obviously going a lot faster with it, though. I talked to a cam manufacturer about 2 months ago about a custom cam, too! (just telling you some of this so you don't think i'm trying to copy your setup...sheet metal intake was also started about 8 months ago for me, i've just let it sit, though). I gotta get on the ball so you'll have some more competition. my pistons (which are also forged, from je, for the alum. heads, are sitting in my room), 3.4 block was stripped nearly a year ago, heads are sitting, waiting. My whole header/y-pipe has been done for several months now, too. So, we could have some fun! I'm still playin with my n/a 3.1 right now, though.

 

lol atealst i know im not the only one putting togetr a serious motor now

 

check out my website, Welcome to I've got some pics on there of the beginings of my turbo setup. and, some other info on my car/work.

 

Losers. j/k I'm used to the saab aftermarket community, we all help each other out when we find something good. Of course we're all competing with everyone else in the world cause no gives saabs their due credit. Anyway, why all the secrecy about the springs though. You don't just call a manufacturer and say I'm running this lift and this many rpms and I need springs? Also what's the ball park cost to have a custom cam done?

Bah, your cam info probably wouldn't help me anyway, looks like I'm building a completely different motor. So which engines come with the beefest standard cams and where can I get these much better aluminum heads? How many rpms can I run on the standard equipment?

I think my plan is gonna be get a late model 2.8 with a manual and build a small turbo setup for about 250-300 hp. I'll probably go with a megasquirt and once I've fixed all the little problems that crop up I'll go for real power.

Oh, and for all your help.

 

The beefiest standard cam (I'm assuming you mean stock) comes in the 3.4. It is a match to the crane 2030 cam. A lot of people like to swap to it in their 2.8s and 3.1s...it is stock in the 3.4s, though. A custom cam will probably be atleast $200-250, if not more. The aluminum heads actually come on FWD 2.8s, 3.1s, and 3.4s. The later 3.4s have the best of the aluminum heads on them. I'd be scared to twist a stock crank much past 7k rpms. Dave, you say the stock cranks are forged? I was thinking that they were cast...if they are forged, that's even better news!

 

Well I was planning on having it balanced for high RPM use, not just set the rev limiter for 9 grand and hope for the best. Is there any way to tell if the crank is forged or not?

 

That's so silly. I never understood why people are so **** about keeping crap like this a secret. I mean, it's not like everyone and their grandma is going to copy your setup. But to each their own I guess.

 

well lots of the fwd 660 guys are running ls6 springs with their boosted setups. if you look at the comp cams catalog you can get the springs listed for the 3800 upgrades (just a set of 12 ls6 springs), just need to use the right seals and shims. with the aluminum heads if your going over .500 lift its a good idea to mill down the top of the valve guide steams for clearance.

 

the reason i wont give out my cam/spring specs is cause for one ill be over .600's lift,and the engine i am building is for a new f-body racing series,ill be running in a heads up class,so anything that may keep me faster then the next guy i dont want to share,mainly cause im not running in a v6 only class,ill be running against v6/v8 cars everything from gen 1 sbc to lsx engines and bbc's,
my biggest fear are the bb cars and other v6 cars

 

While we're on the subject, how much boost is "safe" to throw on a stock 2.8?

 

Interesting, I like how with domestics you can mix and match so many parts. Can these LS6 springs handle 9000 rpms? I'm guessing I'll need solid lifters and tougher rocker arms.

 

I don't know how high rpm they are good for but I would be more worried about the trans taking that much rpm and the bottom end. if you check out turboz24.com that will give you some better ideas on a turbo/high rpm build up. the guy that owns that car spins it up to 8000 with no problems, except he has had a few problems with trannys when racing it.


RSfreak, I am not sure how good the pistons are constructed in the iron head engines but I don't see 6-8psi being a problem with a good tune. the aluminum head engines most people are getting away safe with 8 and others are running 10 psi with no problems!

 

its all about the tune.an on the edge tune u can get 6-9 psi,if u run a conservative tune i.e lil rich,pull some timming u could run 12 psi,tiago was running 14-16 psi on a stock bottom end 3.4,but not continously i.e only for dyno/track,and droped the boost back down for the track