Hello, i've recently posted about rebuilding my engine because of a failed rod bearing. Well, i've recently restarted work on my engine because I didn't finish and had to move my car to another location. My problem is that I can't get one of the cylinder heads off of the block. It's all unbolted and the pushrods are taken out, but it's like its glued there. I haven't even tried the other side yet because I suspect the fouled bearing is on the right side and I want to asses the damage. It looks like even all the original gaskets and spark plugs are on the engine. I don't think the previous owner ever got that manufacturer mandated tune-up because it looks like the engine has never been taken apart at all. Maybe the gasket and sealant has fused or something because I can't even get it off with a shop crane.

 

Be a man, and pry it off with your hands....

As easily and delicately as you can, wedge a very strong flat head screw driver between the head and block, and lightly tap it with a hammer. It'll break free, trust me....

 

Or....

You can hit it really really hard!!! With a RUBBER mallett!!

Keep trying and check again for one bolt that may be hiding...

 

There are quite a few ways, but not knowing what kind of tools he has readily available makes it tough though (assuming all bolts are removed). Since the intake manfold(s) are off, you can always stick a long steel bar (like a single tire iron) into one of the ports, and pry it off by pulling it toward yourself. The leverage will guarantee it coming off, just be careful you don't drop the head due to over-pulling it....

 

Yup, I have had to use a screwdriver before and wedged it inbetween the head and block. I've dismantled a few 2.8's that were in terrible condition before.

 

yeah, I guess i'll try the screwdriver again because I don't have a tire iron, i'm worried about the rubber mallet technique if it might cause microfractures in the iron or not, but i also don't want to nick up the gasket surface with the screw driver. Should I be using some penetrating oil or WD-40?

 

I just pulled my driver's side head off to drill out a couple of studs tommorrow. Mine had one side of it stick. I used a long flat head screwdriver. I just kept on lightly prying on it till it popped loose. Don't be afraid to use a bit of force to take it off. Just don't get to rough or you'll F-up the head.

WD-40 isn't a bad idea. Spray it on and let it soak for a few minuted. If that doesn't work get some PB blaster. That stuff is great for breaking bolts loose so I think that it would help your situation.

 

oh, also one of the intake ports is sealed with what looks like JB weld covered with sludge and a broken bolt, it looks like that on both the head and the manifold ports. I'll upload some pictures soon, i'm going to go take them right now.

 

Stick a prybar down one of the ports and pry away from the head. This is the least likely to screw up the deck of the block or the head, and applys the most prying force to get them apart. Been doing it that way for years.

 

thanks, I'm on my way to go try this stuff now.

 

all right, now were did I put that pry bar, lol

 

heres the pictures of the plugged up port, is it supposed to be that way? It's really hard like it's been there for years.

 

Ya I don't think that that is suposed to be like that.

 

what should I do about this?

 

Put the plugs back in, turn it over, and the head should pop right off.

 

Well, I did the screwdriver thing for about an hour and it didn't do anything, I tried the mallet, it didn't do anything. So I tried the pry bar and it broke a piece of metal from the lip of the intake port. So now I need a new cylinder head!!! Oh man what do I do!? Even If I do get a new head, I still can't get the darn old one off. What a piece of crap!!!

 

Well, now you need a set of heads that are 1987 or newer from a fuel injected 3rd gen, fiero, or S-truck. They have better valve and port sizes and you can get them cheap from the wrecking yard. Beware of re-using your original block as well due to the inferior oil clearances used before 1987.

The fiero has some nice aluminum valve covers as well!!

P.S. Check to make sure all of your bolts are really out, then stick the long bar or pipe DEEP down one of the intake ports to brake it loose off of the block. Sounds like someone used K&W block seal and glued everything together on you.

 

That port is the EGR heated intake manifold crossover port. It should connect straight over to the exhaust port on the middle chamber. They are in the casting of every V6 iron head I've ever seen. Not a big deal that its plugged.

How many bolts did you pull out? You should have 8 for each head. And if your heads are really broken already, you should go get the 86+ heads. They have 1.72" intake valves!

 

I have a set if youre interested. Im not sure if they are 86+. If anyone knows the casing number for them I can check.

 

its actually 85, that was the first year for the MPFI engine. my grandma has one w/ only 62k on it

 

Yes I have all eight bolts out for each, but are you sure I should get the later model cylinder heads, because I guess the '84 engine is slightly different than later years because of smaller journals and maybe some other stuff. Also, will I have to get a different intake manifold for those cylinder heads since they have larger intake, or is that just the valves. Lastly, my exhaust manifolds are severely rusted and corroded inside and the bolts for them are really brittle, so I'm going to replace the manifolds, should I get stock ones, or is there a better 3rd party set (maybe better alloys or something)

 

You may need to get a newer manifold. If you are going to replace the stock manifolds I would go with headers. They make a world of difference and would make the newer heads flow even better.

 

I need the A.I.R. system completely intact to pass any smog check around here, in California, so I'll probably need to stick with manifolds, and this cylinder head thing seems to be getting complicated, if I get a newer manifold, how then will I fit my carburetor back on it? I think I need to go with '84 heads to keep modification and cost down. I just need my camaro to run long and well right now. I'll start some mods when I get more situated financially.

 

Sorry I didn't realize you had a carb, I forgot your Camaro is older. You could reuse your manifold probably, or you could go with an Edelbrock manifold to get the best benefits.

 

did you end up getting them off yet? some one on here gave a good idea with putting the plugs back on and then turning it over(if all the bolts are out) it will pop right off.

 

not yet, i don't have anything to grip the fly wheel with right now

 

Just get a socket on the center bolt for the crank pulley, It's not really that hard to turn the motor over. I believe that mine was 18 mm when I adjusted my valves.

 

I believe he meant to use the starter to turn over the engine. Just place a heavy blanket or such over the head so if it really pops loose it doesn't land on the fender. . .




RBob.

 

Have you removed the exhaust manifold from the head? This can cause the removale of the head to be extremly difficult, if it's not removed.

There is no reason why the head should be this difficult to remove, I've removed some stuborn heads and only took some hard pressure applied to an intake port or under the lip of the head.

Have you removed the belt driven accessories from the front of the head? This too can hold the head to the block like it's welded there.

 

Ok, there seems to be some confusion, I have already removed my engine from the car and it is on an engine stand, so using the starter motor is out of the question; naturally, all accessories have been removed. A mechanic friend of mine has also told me that if someone had used block sealer on the heads, turning it over would not pop them loose. He says it hardens like glass. I asked jokingly if I should just take a sledge hammer or something to the heads, and he said I should try something like that. To give you an idea of how stuck they are, I've already attached one of the heads to the engine hoist and tried to lift it off, but the seal supports the entire weight of the engine! Also, there is no lip to speak of on the heads that I can fit ANYTHING under, I just can't wedge anything under those heads.

 

Do you still have the crank pulley on? If so then just take a 18mm socket to it and turn it clockwise with the spark plugs in the block. It's not that hard to turn the motor over with a longer socket wrench.

 

You can definitely use your old carburetor intake with the newer heads.

Also, engines are cheap enough in the junkyards, especially in CA (I used to live there) that you may want to start looking for an entire core engine. You should look for an 87 or newer 2.8/3.1/3.4 from an f-car or an s-truck. The oiling is better and they are good for well over 200k miles. My last 90 3.1 did 248k hard miles.

I sold it this way to a guy with an older carbed S10 and we put his carb intake, big HEI, and v-belt accessory drive on it - IN CALIFORNIA - and it passed the smog test with flying colors.

The fuel injected engines from 85 and up all have better camshafts and cylinder heads from the factory. The 87 and up engines all have better oiling to the crank and better block castings as well.

The reason I'm telling you this is that you are fast approaching the point where your labor is not worth the effort for the engine you have. If you are gonna tear it apart you should start with the best stuff you can. Just my opinion...

Good luck

 

I keep reading from people that the '87+ had better oiling, from my own experiance and research, I have seen no change in the oiling system across the run of genI 660s, up to and including the 3.4 (Only available in the '93 to 95 F-bodies BTW).

Mid 1985 saw an enlarging of the main journals (refered to as a "Large crank" or "Large Journal" version), EFI or "H.O." version had larger valves (1.72 vs 1.6 for intake and 1.43 vs 1.3 for exhaust). This started in 1983 IIRC, in the H.O. version, but became standard with the EFI in 1986, and stayed the same up to 1995 on the 3.4.

I don't understand why that head won't come off. I didn't realize that the engine was out of the car.

There are places to pry, using the valley end rail, and a spot near this under the head you can pry against.

I do agree that it almost seems more worthwhile getting another engine to rebuild than what you are dealing with, though for me it would become personal, and would have to get that head off, even if it means destroying it.

 

I know that feeling! There's many time on the job (consruction) wher I will look at a stubborn object and scream "Don't be like this, I have power tools!" at it. lol.

 

alrighty, I finally got the heads off, and the oil pan and water pump, but I guess I need a crankshaft damper remover tool to remove the damper, because it's in the way of the timing cover. I also need a cylinder ridge reamer.

 

So what kept the head on so tight and how did you get it off?

 

Unless it has been on there a really really long time it shouldn't have been on there that tight. I have studded several blocks and that can make it a little difficult to remove the heads but they are never stuck. My guess is just time, unless the head was removed a long time ago and someone actually put some kind of sealant on the head gaskets for some strange reason. Actually, I found a post where someone put JB Weld on the Head Gaskets. Don't know why, Ignorance I guess.

 

ooh, JB Weld? Well, I got the heads off by bolting things to them to give me leverage for the pry bar (i.e. accessory bracket). It was on there pretty good and I'm not so sure it had ever been taken apart before. Now, the cylinders all have ridges, and I can't find a ridge reamer at any parts stores in town, and friends of mine just tell me they let the machine shop ream the cylinders, but I don't want to take the block to a machine shop if I don't have to. If there's a ridge, does it need to be bored or will a hone be fine?

 

by the way, I found the failed bearing. The top half of the bearing had gotten spun under the bottom half so that they overlapped alot. The bearing had been pressed thin and the extra metal had been forced up against the side of the crank. Amazingly, no bits had broken off of them and the cylinder is completely scratch free and there is no metal in the oil. The crank also looks damage free, but I'd like to replace it or get it returned.

 

Good to hear you got it off okay! Any machinist should be able to polish the journals and check for straightness.

 

I find it hard to believe that there is no damage on the crank, especially if the bearing lapped. I recently had a bearing spin, together mind you, the crank was trashed. I can dig up pics if you want.

 

The oiling passages are smaller according to the old GM factory racing manual for the 60 degree V6. My book burned up in my sister's house and I am trying to locate another so that I can copy the pages and post them. It was along the lines of the Buick Power Source manual but for the chevy 60s...

They gave great recommendations for back in the 80's when guys used to race their 2.8's in stock classes for Baja and drag racing. They said to always use the 87 and newer setup. The cranks were made in the wrong sizes and the block was inferior for high performance use.

good luck, whatever you do...

 

Yep, that's why it became standard. Just like the new 60* cranks being steel and rated for much higher RPM's. They have recently upped the rod journal sizes too.

 

well, my crank actually didn't get ruined by this whole ordeal so it obviously is strong enough, but i'm replacing it anyways because I'm doing a pretty thorough overhaul, i've had my engine stripped to the block for a few days now, so I'll start a new thread if I have anymore trouble since the thread title would probably be misleading One thing though, am I mistaken or is the stock cam supposed to be flat tappet, because I pulled my cam and to my surprise it was a roller cam. That's nice, but maybe the cam is newer than I thought?

 

Were thay hyd rollers? That's weird, I wonder how they got the proper oiling? How were they held square to the cam? There are no keeper provisions on these blocks and roller cams weren't used until much later by GM on the 60*.

 

nevermind, I guess you all can call me a n00b, I had my terms mixed up and it was very late, I didn't think before I typed on my last post, lol, everythings stock and fine!