This weekend I had to pull my head for other reasons but I put it back on with new gasket and the intake also got new gaskets. Since I was in there I figured that I would also adjust the passenger valve train (I pulled the driver side head) since I had to adjust the drivers side. I adjusted it according to my Haynes manuel and as far as I can tell I did it right even though I have never done anything like this before. I also put my distributor back in the way it was before I adjusted the valves which required my to turn the crank so the rotor isn't out of alignment but I do know that my timing is way off. The motor misses alot especially going up hills and accelerating say over about 3000 RPM is nearly impossibe. All of this is also making me run very rich. The car doesn't miss as much on a flat surface but I really still can't accelerate very fast. I had grandmothers passing me this morning the car is running so bad.I guess what I am getting to is if this is just a timing issue or are the pushrods and valvetrain misadjusted? I can't hear any sort of pinging or any noise that is out of the ordinary for my car. The car is an 89 Camraro with 2.8. I already went and bought a timing light and will set the timing this afternoon when I get home. I would like to get a quick answer so that I will know if I have to dig into my motor again so that I can start today of possible. I can have tommorrow off if I have to take it off.

 

You only replaced one head gasket? Usually this is not recommended and I have always done both since the manifold is off anyways.

Usually the valves being adjusted wrong won't make it run THAT bad. If you tightened the rockers with the #1 cyl TDC on the exhaust stroke, there could be a problem, but the timing mark would not line up with 0* on the balancer (should have noticed).

Are you sure you pluged the connectors in the distributor nice and tight? Also you could buy a cheap spark tester (ususlly less than $5) and plug that into the spark plug side of the wire and crank the engine to be sure you are getting good spark to all cyls.

 

I bought the cheapest timing light I could find this morning which was $35. I couldn't find the timing mark on the crank pulley, the other way to check it is to make sure that the dist. rotor was pointing at the #1 cyl wire which it was. I almost adjusted the valves in the wrong spot but caught myself before i did anything bad. I am about to adjust my timing. I would stop on the way home and adjust it here and there and got it a little better but the motor still isn't running as good as it was.

 

No timing notches? Is there a timing indicator?

EDIT: mine has at least two notches in the balancer.

 

I just noticed it when I set my timing (notch). I think that it was filled with crap. I cleaned off the markings for the degrees and the mark was there, I guess that I didn't notice it before. I set the timing and it still misses alot but it's running better which leads me to believe that I adjusted the valves wrong. The other numbers on the markings were like 18, 16, 14, 12, etc. I set it at the marking that is above the 18. So that might be 20. My Haynes manuel doesn't tell me what the motor should be set at but to look at some sticker under that hood that I don't seem to have...

 

my money is one the valve adjustment. you gotta do that with the valve covers off and the car running if you want to get it perfect. trust me on this one, i had the exact same problem. its a pain in the *** to take it apart and put together just to take apart and put together again but its gotta be done.

 

10*. And remember to unplug the timing wire connector. Its the brown/black wire located by the heater fan motor. Unplug, start car. Adjust the distributor until the timing light shows the mark at 10*. Turn off car, replug timing connector, start.

How did you adjust your valve lash? There should be a post here somewhere that shows the correct lash adjustment and order.

 

I adjusted them the way the Haynes manuel told me to. It was something along the lines of getting cyl 1 to TDC and adjust so intake valve and so exhaust valve then get cyl 4 to TDC and adjust so intake and so exhaust (there were specific ones). That is how I did it. Now the timing is off and I have a feeling that the valves are misadjusted too. I adjusted them till they didn't move up/down then till when I could barely turn them.

For the timing I did unplug that connector by the heater blower, as for where the 10* is where is that in the markings on the crank? I put the notch on the marking that is closer to the top center of the crank pulley if that makes any sense.

EDIT:
I went back to see if I could clean the plate where the degree markings are fot the timing b/c its just covered in crap and the numbers are hard to read put is 10* somewhere in the middle of the plate and each marking is 2* with the highest number being 20*? If so then I think that I got the timing correct this time.

Also I went for a test drive again and it is better but it still messes alot though more of the power is back but its not like it was. I guess that now I have to tear down the motor again and readjust the valves.

 

I've never done mine running and haven't had any problems. (even have changed the rockers 2x, 1.5 to 1.7, then back to 1.6)
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That's me who keeps posting it, and I use the same method outlined in the Haynes manual. 2.8RS followed this procedure as I had suggested, my guess is ignition, but have been wrong before .

 

sounds like u may have a plug wire or 2 crossed
remeber the firing order is 1-2-3-4-5-6

(back/firewall)
5-6
3-4
1-2
(front)

 

I know the firing order of the pistons but you may be right in me crossing some wires. I'll do that before I dig into my motor again.

Checked them and they are going to the right pistons. Also I forgot to mention that at idle the engine sounds normal but has a little bit of roughness to it but not much, that doesn't mean much probably since I have been chasing idle problems for a long time now.

 

Remember the dizzy rotates counter clockwise, I have made that mistake before, lol.

 

It goes clockwise, I'm looking at the diagram right now of the firing order and which way the dizzy rotates. It has an arrow going clockwise. You had me worried for a sec, not to mention I labeled each wire as I pulled it off in the firing order.

Could it be time for a new cap and rotor possibly? I'll double check to make sure that all of the plugs are right and everything has a good connection tommorrow morning.

 

I had a problem when i changed my plugs/wires, it ran like crap, I checked every wire, plug, and anything I could think of. Turns out, I had the coil wire on backwards. I'd definatly look there before anything. Could be vacuum leak too.

 

I just have to ask, how do you put the coil wire on backwards?

 

Today I went and pulled my plugs on a hunch since this is sounding more and more like a spark problem and two of the plugs were fouled. I went into town and got some AC Delco Rapidfires and the motor is definately running better but it still misses. For what it was running like it is much much better. So now I am wondering if I should replace my dist cap too? My wires are already pretty new and so were the plugs that I replaced. The timing is set to what I believe to be 10*. The numbers on the timing markings are vrey hard to read due to being worn and covered in crud. Also can't I advance the timing to 14* and get a little power, I remember hearing about that somewhere.

 

One end is longer than the other.

 

Use some emery on the timing marks (lightly since the numbers are recessed), it's aluminum IIRC so there shouldn't be rust.

Advancing is OK, just make sure you are using good gas, otherwise you could get detonation and the ECN will retard timing.

 

I already cleaned it as best that I can with a wire brush and PB blaster, its cleaner than it was. The 10* mark is kind of in the middle correct? I'll try some of that emery stuff, where can I get it?

 

^ Just about any hardware store carries emery cloth....

 

Steal your mom/sister/girlfriend's nail file.

 

If it would help out figuring this out I have a couple of videos in car while its missing that I can upload.

 

What are you waiting for? lol

 

http://www.fquick.com/videos/In_car/2480

http://www.fquick.com/videos/In_car_missing/2479

It takes a little while to upload them. There are also exhaust leaks on my car that I am also in the progress of fixing. You'll also hear that.

 

Sounds like ignition, how did the cap/rotor look?

Long shot here, but if you left the ground strap off, it may have something to do with it (make it seem likes it's missing).

 

I already have a new cap and rotor comming from Summit. I wouldn't really know what I would be looking for as far a wear and tear but I figured that I might as well sine I don't know the maintence history of the vehicle. What is the ground strap that you are talking about? I already checked all of the plugs back there that I could remember and everything is hooked up as far as I can tell. I'm also still running rich. Where is this ground strap that you are talking about? If its the ground that connects to the intake on the passenger side of the UIM then that is connected.

 

If the cap/rotor is pitted, or has a lot of green crud on it means it's on it's way out.

Try taking the cap and rotor off and sand the contacts on the inside of the cap and the metal edge on the rotor. If you get them a little shiney, you will get enough miles out of them until the new ones get there. I buy the cheap ones from the parts store (less than $10) and just change them more often. This has gotten me home in the past when I lived in the boonies, and there was many miles to the next sign of civilization

Actually the cap/rotor will be a thing of the past once I finish the hybrid.

 

I don't think that the contacts were green or anything, I did look at them. It's weird how the motor was running fine before pulling the head and now...

I'll try sanding down those contacts and see what happens.

 

Did you check the ground strap on the back of the head? If thats not grounded well it would give you slow cranking and poor spark.

Did you get all of your injectors plugged in good? Make sure the pins are not bent as well.

I watched the vids, I've got the same steering wheel, and is your tach off? Seems like it wasn't going above 3-4kRPM but the tack looked like it almost took off?

 

I'll check out the ground you are talking about andcheck out my injectors as well. I got the new cap and rotor today so I'll have to see what happens. I wonder about the ground b/c by car cranks even better than it used to. Now it cranks as soon as I turn the key instead of having to crank a couple of times.

Also where is the ground that you are speaking of? I only pulled the driver side head and the intake.

I pulled the old cap and the pintle where the rotor toches is quite black and singed while the other pintles are corroded but could be cleaned and probably be fine. How does the rotor come of? I can't feel any kind of pin or bolt holding it in and the new one just looks like it just pops in place. I also checked all of the wires I could see and everything is connected.

 

The rotor pulls off. No pins or screws on that one.

There should be a ground strap on the back of the passenger side head(?). May not be on yours but there should be one somewhere. If its cranking good then it must be fine.

Is your tach off? The engine RPM sound and tach seemed to be way off.

 

I'll mess with the rotor more, I figured that it just pulled off, I just dodn't want to pull with too much force.
Tried at the rotor again and it just wont come off. Any ideas anyone?

For that ground there is one that comes off of the firewall that has always bolted to one of the bolts that holds the UIM on.

I guess that my tach is off. It reads ~1300 for idle and it sounds much lower. Also if I go WOT from a dig the tach will go to 7K+ RPM.

 

The rotor is a pain, the first time I replaced mine I had to break it to get it off because of corrosion. The next time it came off easy.

Has your tach always acted like that, or just since the heads was off? If you can get a hold of a tach-dwell meter, compare it to your stock tach. Mine is off a few hundred at idle and 700 in the upper RPM's.

 

How exactly did you get your first one off? Looking at the new one now I think that the metal connection on the bottom corroded like you are talking about. I was thinking just cutting it up carefully and PB blaster maybe?

I assume that my tach has always been like that. I never really gave it much thought until now since you guys mention it. I always wondered why my tach kept reading high after I fixed my vaccum leaks.

 

Do you have significant engine noise coming over the radio? The tach should be steady and not float around like that. Maybe your alternator is out causing computer glitching and inacurate ignition advance?

Is the o2 sensor unplugged? If you connect the timing light and watch the advance, does it increase gradually with RPM? It should be around 28* at idle i think and then increase from there as RPM/Load increases.

What codes are you throwing? SES light was on in the vid.

 

The altenator is only a couple of months old along with the battery. Both of them crapped out on me in the same weekend. Really the only load noise I have while cruising are my exhaust leaks.

O2 is plugged in and is also only a few months old. I did watch the ignition advance slightly when I gave it some throttle with the timing light.

I'm not throwing any codes, that's the security light. I need to get around to doing that VATS bypass. The only code that I have thrown recently is for the occassional EGR code. I pulled the solenoid from a junkyard a while ago and I don't really car for it.

 

When you set the timing, did you unplug the signal wire?

 

Yes.

 

I got the new cap and rotor on and it is better but it is still missing. I havn't rechecked the plugs yet, I want my exhaust to cool down first. The couple of the other plugs I had in the motor fouled pretty quickly so I havn't left out the possibility of another fouling. Also when resetting the timing my motor seems to run better at say 14* then 10*. Should I advance it a little and see what happens b/c I am still running slightly rich.

 

You have #1 as the passenger forward piston?

Have you checked fuel pressure? You may want to check the injector resistance of either bank. Easy to do since the connector is behind the intake and easy to reach. If one died or is not connected it will show. My thinking would be that if one is dead, the car is richening up the other 5 because its blowing air now. I think its about 4 ohms per bank?

 

I am using the #1 passenger forward piston to set timing.

I did go back and check to make sure that the injectors are connected. I just pulled the whole rail with the fuel lines and just set them aside. When I put them back I made sure that they were clean b/c they were sitting for a couple of days. I hope its not the injectors, I don't really need to spend more money.

 

A junk yard set will work just fine if that is the case. Then you could get the bigger 3100/3.1L injectors while your at it

I hope it doesn't seem like I'm pounding you with little stuff to check. Its just easy to overlook as I have learned in the past. One more easy one, if you disconnect the MAF does it run better?

 

Continue the bashing. I have run out of ideas for what this problem could be. I appreciate any advice I can get. I will be going to the local pick n' pull this sat probably with some friends who are looking for parts. I just may sneak out a set of injectors. This has drained my cash and I've been trying to keep money to buy a 3.1 for a swap anyways.

Also the MAF is pretty new also. I have replaced alot of stuff on this car so far.

Won't I run rich with the 3.1 injectors since they are bigger? When I do go to the junkyard are there differences in the injector size among the 2.8 since the heads changed in whatever year?

I have been thinking about taking the intake back off and readjusting the valves just to be sure I have done everything right.

 

I know for a fact that the chiltons valve lash order is wrong and will result in a poorly running motor.

2.8 valve lash adjustment
Piston 1 at tdc
Exhaust 1,2,3
Intake 1,5,6
360*
Exhaust 4,5,6
Intake 2,3,4

1.5turns or 1.25turns has yet to be determined. Somewhere in there will work find though.

 

I have a Haynes manuel and I adjusted how it told me to, It was something like you posted except I think that it said 3/4 turns. Also just to make sure the exhaust valves are the rockers that line up with the exhaust port (header) correct? That's how I figured it out between exhaust and intake.

 

thats how you do it, but 3/4 turn would be WAYYYY to little. The valves wouldn't open enough and it would probably clack. Double check the info I provided with what you did. Make sure its dead on. I've done this I don't know how manytimes. You may want to do a search on valve lash as well. I think Dale and I went back and forth a couple years ago.

 

I read a few of those old threads just now and I probably messed up the adjustment. So I should do 1.25 to 1.5 extra turns after 0 lash correct?

 

Yes. Find 0 lash by softly turning the pushrods while you tighten down the rocker. When it FIRST stops turning, go 1.25-1.5 turns past and stop.

 

Thanks. I'll do that this weekend again. Hopefully this will fix the problem and it certainly could explain whats going on.

I also read something about the cam going fubar when driving the car with bad valve adjustment.

 

I've never gone that tight (1.25 turns), all the manuals I have read for the 60* says 3/4 turn and I go about 5/8's and if they make noise, go more.