walkthelin3

got my car running recently... now as far as i am aware... its not staying in time. il set the time.. and drive it for like a week of so.. then around 35 mph. the engine feels like its not getting power and pops every once in awhile out the intake.. the timing chain is new.. and it runs fine when the time is set... then it just goes downhill eventually.. am i setting it wrong? its an 87 2.8. i put the car into service mode through grounding the wires on the chip terminals a and b.. but people are talking about disconnecting a brown wire? although ive heard that that brown wire under the hood is only on v8's and older then 87... whats up?

Maverick H1L

iTrader: (8)

There is a wire coming out of the wire harness near the heater blower fan case that has a black connector and appears to connect to nothing (it's connected to itself). It's TAN with a BLACK stripe. Disconnect it with the ALDL A and B connected, turn the ignition off and remove the ALDL wire, and start the engine. Set the base time. Turn engine off and reconnect the wire.

Whoever told you those things about the connector obviously doesn't know much about these things... Pretty much ALL HEI distributor systems had this setup to set base ignition timing, or a similar setup, whether it's a V8 or an L4, all the way up to about 1994 (a guess on the year, but it's up there due to continued use of the dizzy on V8 trucks).

Project 3.4 Camaro

Sounds to me like you don't have the hold down clamp piece on there or tightened down. It kind of looks like a bird talon, and has a bolt smack dab in the middle, holds the dizzy down so it doesnt move around and fubar the timing.

walkthelin3

its on there right.. and il try tht out tmrw abt the wire

walkthelin3

any way you could take a pic of it?.. cuz tan on my car isnt rlly tan at all..

walkthelin3

is it ok to turn the car off after timeing it. then connect the wire. or do u have to reconnect the wire as its running

firebird904

I've always turned it off then plugged the wire back in disconnect the battery for 30 seconds to clear codes and reconnect then start it up.

walkthelin3

well i grounded a and b.. disconnected the wire. turned car off.. pulled a and b out then started it and set the time . turned car off thenplugged wire back in then turned the car on... i set it to ten with the wire off.. n when i checked the time at idle it was at 16 i believe..is it supposed to be set at zero so when the computer adjusts it it lands on ten?. n i failed for emissions... will setting it to zero help?. idc about lack of power.. i just wanna pass

firebird904

Your supposed to disconnect the wire, start the car then set the time to 10*

walkthelin3

well i set it to zero. went thru n it blew out more hydrocarbons... 200 ppm more... so setting it to ten is alot better but it still failed.. is it ok to set it to 12? or will that harm the motor

firebird904

It shouldn't harm the engine, do you have a catalytic converter on the car? Other than the timing it could be other thing's I had my tps sensor set wrong and it was running pig rich.

Maverick H1L

iTrader: (8)

Just for kicks, replace the ignition module. I had a module I couldn't set the time on and replacing it fixed the problem. If you're only getting 6 degrees of advance on a non-knock sensor equipped vehicle, there's a problem. The ECM should be firing the plugs off of the timing scale (in the advance direction) with the base timing set to 10*.

walkthelin3

yes thers a cat n idk about the tps cuz i just got the car non running like 3 or 4 months ago.. and i set the stock timing to ten n after everything was set. the timing was up at 16 or so.. thats normal right? n il replace the ignition module wen i got the cash... right now its in dire need of a clutch... everyone i know says that they have never ever seen a clutch that bad... it grabs less then an inch away from the top

Maverick H1L

iTrader: (8)

Like I said, 16* total advance is WAY too short... Normal timing I've seen is in the 20+ degree range with the ECM controlling the timing. Or, more than whatever the top of the scale is (top of the timing scale plus about 8*).

Where exactly on the tab are you setting the timing? Should be the bottom of the second V, IIRC. The tip of each peak (pointed at the crank pulley) is 4 degrees. Also, make sure that you're looking at the WIDE mark on the damper and not one of the narrow ones, which is another problem (slipped damper).

walkthelin3

uhm its 16-19 at idle. the wide mark is chalked and the mark is in between 8 and 12 on the timing mark. the line in between the 2.. thats ten.il givew you what its really at later on tonight. to be honest right now its accually set at 9 btdc because when i tightened it it turned a tad but im lazy.. but 16 ish was where it was at when it was on ten.(i retimed it to zero to test for emissions) then timed it bkl n now im at 9

Maverick H1L

iTrader: (8)

Well, then, see if maybe the engine will run with the base timing set to about a full peak back from where it is now (about 16* advanced). That should get you close to what you're looking for.

Or, take out the ignition module and have it tested at an auto parts store.

walkthelin3

you want me to set the base timing to 16 btdc n see what happends?

Maverick H1L

iTrader: (8)

Yes. The engine should run a little better, but you'll need to make sure it will still start (may or may not have a starting issue depending on the condition of the module). The ICM that was in the dizzy when I bought my car wouldn't allow base timing settings below 18* BTDC or it would jump back to 18*. Needless to say, it was bad. Which is why I also recommended that you have yours tested.

walkthelin3

well. i noticed that when it started at 0* it would start right up.10* it would take like 20 seconds to startn when it cought it would do like 15 rpms n slowly reach idle.. 12*took forever to catch

Maverick H1L

iTrader: (8)

Well, since that's the case, there is another way to set it.

If you have or can borrow or otherwise get a vacuum gauge, hook it up to the small port where the brake booster hose connects to the plenum. Start the engine and set the timing to where the engine makes the most vacuum at idle. It sounds like your damper may have slipped.

Maverick H1L

iTrader: (8)

Ok, from reading your posts, there is another thing. You said you're pushing a lot of HCs out of your tail pipe. How's the O2 and CO readings (I'm assuming you're on a tailpipe sniffer)? One other thing could be the quality of the spark and the plugs themselves. Pull at least one of the spark plugs and tell what color it is. It should be between a whitish color and tan, possibly a little gray. If it's dry and black, you're either running rich, or you have weak spark.

walkthelin3

sorry havnt been able to do any of that stuff yet.. last time i saw a plug it was black but also drenched in gas..setting it to 0 tdc puts my hc at 530 when 220 is the max its supposed to be co puts out about 3 times the amount its supposed to be .. 1.20 is the max.. im putting out 3.54 or something like that.. also. i need a clutch so bad tht i cant drive it or itl go.. i wanna get a better then stock clutch kit but i dont have much money. i also need a flywheel tht way the pedal releases at stock spec.. any idea on whats good for as cheap as possible?

Maverick H1L

iTrader: (8)

Just go with a stock clutch for now... You don't have a turbo or anything, so an upgrade would be a bit overkill at this point and if you have other problems with the flywheel and such, you could end up wasting the money on that expensive clutch.

With the HC and CO that high, I'd be willing to bet you either have leaking fuel injectors or there is a problem somewhere between the ignition coil and the spark plugs, which is why I recommended pulling the plugs to find out. You'll need to pull at least one plug anyways to check the spark strength. The HC and CO are indicators of incomplete combustion due to either too much fuel or not enough heat in the spark.

walkthelin3

i do have a fault in the egr system.. to the best of my knowledge my egr solonoid is shot... could that be a reason why its so high? and how do i check for spark strength. the color of the spark?? pull the plug n sit it in the wire then lean the threads up against the plenum and crank the motor.. i got tht.. but how exactly do u check for strength

Maverick H1L

iTrader: (8)

Technically, to check how good the coil is, you're supposed to use a spark tester, which is essentially a spark plug without the side electrode that the spark jumps from the center to the shell of the "plug". Without one, as you said, pull the plug and set it against the plenum or something that will ground it, and look at the spark as you crank the engine over. Any other color other than bright white/whitish blue means the coil is weak.

And yes, if the EGR solenoid is gone, then you could have a potential problem if the EGR is sticking open due to a stuck solenoid.

walkthelin3

doesnt the solenoid hold it open? it wouldnt be stuck open if it wasnt working.. although my emissions passed with flying colors on high idle but failed for low idle.. tht sounds like a stuck one huh

Maverick H1L

iTrader: (8)

Actually, the valve itself can stick with or without a bad solenoid, due to getting crudded up by the exhaust passing through it with excess carbon. The solenoid is normally closed by design, blocking vacuum flow to the valve. If the solenoid is somehow stuck open, the valve will also be stuck open. It could also be another case of bad wiring keeping the solenoid open, or a bad ECM, but we'll start with the color of the plugs first.

walkthelin3

i gatta get a spark plug socket again.. thtl take alil time

walkthelin3

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=saMV-d9MRvI

is it me or does the idle seem high.. or is that just cause the car was just started..btw this is my 3rd gen. i think its in pretty good shape

overide

ok here is something I found a while back while I was researching on here. It happened more then you would think, but its something a mechanic would never look for.

A member on here had a backfire and massive timing slop. They did all the right things. Seafoamed the crap out of it... rebuilt the distributor, replaced the timing set, replaced the balancer... every sensor was replaced, computer replaced, egr deleted, vacuum lines replaced, new fuel pump, filter, injectors, coil, plugs, wires, cap. the car still ran better with the timing set at 18 (yes 18 not being advanced by the computer). Car did not ping with it at 18 and made more power. I think it was even advanced to 20 at some point. but the backfire was still present... better but there

Anyway.... the issue came down to something their friend used to see in blazers and s-10s... the distributor had too much endplay. the timing would be set and then it would dance around without the computer advance. It acted like the distributor tab was loose. the endplay was fixed and the backfire was gone immediately. the endplay on your distributor should be checked to be sure this is not the issue. IIRC Moroso makes a kit with shims.

Not sure how its checked... as this was not my car, but the case sounded similar