Attn: KED85 (and a question for others...)
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From: Spotsylvania, Va.
Attn: KED85 (and a question for others...)
Ked, you need to check email more often man...
Anyway, I was wondering if you switched dipsticks, or the tubes, or both when you did your 2.8->3.4 swap...
And for some others (mainly anyone that is into electrical systems of an engine) here's the deal...
I (well, my dad did it...) took off the cap of my distributor, w/o marking it in relation to the distributor body... then, he removed the distributor, w/o marking that! My plan was to get both motors as near as possible to TDC, and then mark the distributor, so it'd go in a little easier... well, that's blown out of the water. So, my question is, how do I get out of this one? I'm planning on getting the motor to TDC (on the compression to power stroke, of course), then setting the distributor so the little metal contact is pointing to any one of the metal fingers, and then putting the cap on, and plugging that wire into the #1 cylinder... then, after that, it shouldn't be hard to just go around and plug wires in the proper firing order (which I already know). Will this work? Or is there a better way? Thanks!
------------------
--'87 Camaro LT --
Currently undergoing a 2.8->3.4 swap.....
Anyway, I was wondering if you switched dipsticks, or the tubes, or both when you did your 2.8->3.4 swap...
And for some others (mainly anyone that is into electrical systems of an engine) here's the deal...
I (well, my dad did it...) took off the cap of my distributor, w/o marking it in relation to the distributor body... then, he removed the distributor, w/o marking that! My plan was to get both motors as near as possible to TDC, and then mark the distributor, so it'd go in a little easier... well, that's blown out of the water. So, my question is, how do I get out of this one? I'm planning on getting the motor to TDC (on the compression to power stroke, of course), then setting the distributor so the little metal contact is pointing to any one of the metal fingers, and then putting the cap on, and plugging that wire into the #1 cylinder... then, after that, it shouldn't be hard to just go around and plug wires in the proper firing order (which I already know). Will this work? Or is there a better way? Thanks!
------------------
--'87 Camaro LT --
Currently undergoing a 2.8->3.4 swap.....
Supreme Member
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 7,604
Likes: 1
From: ****SoCal, USA****
I sent that reply a long time ago.
It seems you did not receive it. Now, that's a detail, I cannot control.
Wish you let me know you did not receive that reply.
So let's go.
I used both oil dip sticks.
Let me explain.
I liked the looks of the newer style from my 1995 3.4, so I tried to use it, using the 3.4 oil dip stick tube and using the 1985 oil pan. I felt resistance, so I resorted to using my original circle handle one. I had a friend flatten out the 1995 dip stick and now it works fine, still ever so slight resistance (I use two hands to feed it into the 1995 oil dip stick tube) so it is not bent/damaged. I have the 1985 oil dip stick in the back, incase it ever breaks.
Hoep that helps ya, as that's almost identical information I sent ya back, same night, infact. I can re-email it, but
Cap & such.
You need to use the 3.4 balancer on this swap set up. The top Dead Center mark is identical to where is is on the 2.8 balancer. But, you are using the 2.8 timing chain cover.
Finding top dead center, put your finger over the #1 cylinder, it'll BLOW off (and mark on balancer should be right, slightly before the "0" timing mark on the timing tab), after/IF you have properly set up the valve adjustment, from the intake swap.
I used the engine in the engine bay & the starter hooked up, to turn over engine for positioning distributor.
Remember I told you haw to make a distributor hold down, for installing the distributor in the car, as there is SO LITTLE room to work back there to replace the factory bolt set up.
Anyway, get the engine to #1, drop in the distributor and you SHOULD see the rotor pointer towards the #1 piston on the block.
Cap only goes on one way. Big hole toward the passenger side, where the modular feeds attach to the wiring.
You should have a distributor wire mark/placement pic in any of the books you have. I even have pic/illustration in my chiltons book.
How does that get you going, again?
Incidentially, I had my distributor in my car, first time, off one tooth. I realized that detail, lifted it up, repositioned dist., car started 2nd crank, ran smooth as my 6 month olds baby butt! I was almost as happy as the moment my Son was born.
------------------
Chat Soon,
KED85
Karl
1985 Firebird 2.8 to 3.4 swap project for Smog Happy LA, CA
It seems you did not receive it. Now, that's a detail, I cannot control.
Wish you let me know you did not receive that reply.
So let's go.
I used both oil dip sticks.
Let me explain.
I liked the looks of the newer style from my 1995 3.4, so I tried to use it, using the 3.4 oil dip stick tube and using the 1985 oil pan. I felt resistance, so I resorted to using my original circle handle one. I had a friend flatten out the 1995 dip stick and now it works fine, still ever so slight resistance (I use two hands to feed it into the 1995 oil dip stick tube) so it is not bent/damaged. I have the 1985 oil dip stick in the back, incase it ever breaks.
Hoep that helps ya, as that's almost identical information I sent ya back, same night, infact. I can re-email it, but
Cap & such.
You need to use the 3.4 balancer on this swap set up. The top Dead Center mark is identical to where is is on the 2.8 balancer. But, you are using the 2.8 timing chain cover.
Finding top dead center, put your finger over the #1 cylinder, it'll BLOW off (and mark on balancer should be right, slightly before the "0" timing mark on the timing tab), after/IF you have properly set up the valve adjustment, from the intake swap.
I used the engine in the engine bay & the starter hooked up, to turn over engine for positioning distributor.
Remember I told you haw to make a distributor hold down, for installing the distributor in the car, as there is SO LITTLE room to work back there to replace the factory bolt set up.
Anyway, get the engine to #1, drop in the distributor and you SHOULD see the rotor pointer towards the #1 piston on the block.
Cap only goes on one way. Big hole toward the passenger side, where the modular feeds attach to the wiring.
You should have a distributor wire mark/placement pic in any of the books you have. I even have pic/illustration in my chiltons book.
How does that get you going, again
?Incidentially, I had my distributor in my car, first time, off one tooth. I realized that detail, lifted it up, repositioned dist., car started 2nd crank, ran smooth as my 6 month olds baby butt! I was almost as happy as the moment my Son was born.
------------------
Chat Soon,
KED85
Karl
1985 Firebird 2.8 to 3.4 swap project for Smog Happy LA, CA
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Joined: Jan 2001
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From: Spotsylvania, Va.
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by KED85:
I sent that reply a long time ago.
It seems you did not receive it. Now, that's a detail, I cannot control.
Wish you let me know you did not receive that reply.
</font>
I sent that reply a long time ago.
It seems you did not receive it. Now, that's a detail, I cannot control.
Wish you let me know you did not receive that reply.
</font>
Probably AOhell's fault. And in that case, I haven't been recieving any of your replies... Thanks for the info on the dipstick.The reason I'm trying to get the distributor set right now, is because I'm trying to use the stock hold down... so, when I put it in, it's supposed to point towards the #1 cylinder? It does... but it doesn't point EXACTLY at it... I'm assuming that's where it goes, because the next spot it'll go in it points straight forward. And, under no control of my own, my dad decided to use the 2.8 balancer, and used a borrowed puller, so, I'm stuck with it, although I don't see where it'll hurt it.
It's almost ready to be dropped in though... just one more sensor (Can't get the damn freeze plug out... it's too small for a 1/4 inch drive ratchet, and we don't have any sockets for plugs like that... with a square in the top...) and the exhaust manifolds, and she's going in! Then reconnecting everything, putting the front of the motor together (alternator, pulleys, pumps, etc...) and turn the key! Now I know how excited you must've been Karl... I can't wait!
------------------
--'87 Camaro LT --
Currently undergoing a 2.8->3.4 swap.....
Supreme Member
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 13,414
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From: Central NJ, USA
Car: 1986 Firebird
Engine: 2.8 V6
Transmission: 700R4
You know you can rotate the base of the distributor, right? Rotating the base will change where the cap lies... you can dig all this up by following all my linked messages thru https://www.thirdgen.org/messgboard/...ML/001122.html . For instance, on my Firebird, the big hole in the cap where the spark module attaches to the wiring points towards my firewall.
As to removing that one freeze plug (do you mean an oil galley plug?), take a bolt that's a bit larger than the square head of the plug. Cut the threads off the bolt so you've got the head and an inch or so of the shoulder left. Now, file the shoulder of the belt down until you get a hex shape that fits the galley plug. Put the modified bolt into the plug, and use a socket & ratchet on the bolt. When done, put that bolt in your toolbox.
------------------
-Tom P (Hot rodded 1986 Firebird 2.8l) from http://www.f-body.net/mailbag/3rd/3rd_mailbag.html message boards
---Think your car could be pic of the week? Visit http://www.f-body.net for details!
As to removing that one freeze plug (do you mean an oil galley plug?), take a bolt that's a bit larger than the square head of the plug. Cut the threads off the bolt so you've got the head and an inch or so of the shoulder left. Now, file the shoulder of the belt down until you get a hex shape that fits the galley plug. Put the modified bolt into the plug, and use a socket & ratchet on the bolt. When done, put that bolt in your toolbox.
------------------
-Tom P (Hot rodded 1986 Firebird 2.8l) from http://www.f-body.net/mailbag/3rd/3rd_mailbag.html message boards
---Think your car could be pic of the week? Visit http://www.f-body.net for details!
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Joined: Dec 2000
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From: Klamath Falls, Oregon
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by 87CamaroLT:
... it's too small for a 1/4 inch drive ratchet, and we don't have any sockets for plugs like that... with a square in the top...
</font>
... it's too small for a 1/4 inch drive ratchet, and we don't have any sockets for plugs like that... with a square in the top...
</font>
Thread Starter
Member
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 185
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From: Spotsylvania, Va.
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by TomP:
As to removing that one freeze plug (do you mean an oil galley plug?), take a bolt that's a bit larger than the square head of the plug. Cut the threads off the bolt so you've got the head and an inch or so of the shoulder left. Now, file the shoulder of the belt down until you get a hex shape that fits the galley plug. Put the modified bolt into the plug, and use a socket & ratchet on the bolt. When done, put that bolt in your toolbox.
</font>
As to removing that one freeze plug (do you mean an oil galley plug?), take a bolt that's a bit larger than the square head of the plug. Cut the threads off the bolt so you've got the head and an inch or so of the shoulder left. Now, file the shoulder of the belt down until you get a hex shape that fits the galley plug. Put the modified bolt into the plug, and use a socket & ratchet on the bolt. When done, put that bolt in your toolbox.
</font>
But, oh well, life goes on, huh? And, next time, there will be a rag on top of the intake...
------------------
--'87 Camaro LT --
Currently undergoing a 2.8->3.4 swap.....
Supreme Member
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 7,604
Likes: 1
From: ****SoCal, USA****
The plug you are trying to remove and replace with the fan sensor for the cylinder head water passage.
It's a 5/16" square hole.
You will not get it out except with only this way.
TORCH IT!!!
TORCH IT!!!
Heat it up, drop oil like 3-in-one in there, while hot, heat again, use this tool.
Go to the hardware store, go to the nuts an bolts section. get a square stud, 5/16"-2" in length. Looks like a small steel rod, square. Well, yep, it is!
Hold that rod with couple of wrenches, pliers, etc. Heat until real hot, drop 3-in-one oil on it (you know when it starts to burn/smoke the oil upon touch, you're getting there), apply rod nut, out it comes.
Yes, this is the only way.
I did this, even with the rod, twisted, by my bending it cold.
YOU HAVE TO GET THAT 3.4 BALANCER BACK!
Honest, it's MATCHED TO THE 3.4 FLYWHEEL!
If you do not do this, the engine will vibrate!
Hey, it's your call to do this to yourself, but....
GET THAT 3.4 BALANCER!
It really is exciting, isn't it, when you are this close?
I felt like Gene Wilder in Young Frankstein, when it finally started.
"It's ALIVE, It's ALIVE!"
You do recall how I told you to make that distributor hold down set up, right?
While you're at the hardware store, get that nut and bolt, same time.
------------------
Chat Soon,
KED85
Karl
1985 Firebird 2.8 to 3.4 swap project for Smog Happy LA, CA
It's a 5/16" square hole.
You will not get it out except with only this way.
TORCH IT!!!
TORCH IT!!!
Heat it up, drop oil like 3-in-one in there, while hot, heat again, use this tool.
Go to the hardware store, go to the nuts an bolts section. get a square stud, 5/16"-2" in length. Looks like a small steel rod, square. Well, yep, it is!
Hold that rod with couple of wrenches, pliers, etc. Heat until real hot, drop 3-in-one oil on it (you know when it starts to burn/smoke the oil upon touch, you're getting there), apply rod nut, out it comes.
Yes, this is the only way.
I did this, even with the rod, twisted, by my bending it cold.
YOU HAVE TO GET THAT 3.4 BALANCER BACK!
Honest, it's MATCHED TO THE 3.4 FLYWHEEL!
If you do not do this, the engine will vibrate!
Hey, it's your call to do this to yourself, but....
GET THAT 3.4 BALANCER!
It really is exciting, isn't it, when you are this close?
I felt like Gene Wilder in Young Frankstein, when it finally started.
"It's ALIVE, It's ALIVE
!"You do recall how I told you to make that distributor hold down set up, right?
While you're at the hardware store, get that nut and bolt, same time.
------------------
Chat Soon,
KED85
Karl
1985 Firebird 2.8 to 3.4 swap project for Smog Happy LA, CA
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From: Spotsylvania, Va.
Well, here's the thing, I used my 2.8 flexplate... The motor I got had a manual tranny, so I had to use my flexplate...
As for that plug, I'll try what I can...
------------------
--'87 Camaro LT --
Currently undergoing a 2.8->3.4 swap.....
As for that plug, I'll try what I can...
------------------
--'87 Camaro LT --
Currently undergoing a 2.8->3.4 swap.....
Supreme Member
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 7,604
Likes: 1
From: ****SoCal, USA****
I paid about $40 for a flex plate for my Corvette.
See what a parts house says.
#2, go back to the yard and ask them for a 3.4 auto flex plate.
I can only tell ya what I was told and I followed all that advice religiously.
I have been told the 3.4 is an internally balanced engine. Solve it now before you stick it under the hood.
The heat trick will work, the hotter the better, tho.
------------------
Chat Soon,
KED85
Karl
1985 Firebird 2.8 to 3.4 swap project for Smog Happy LA, CA
See what a parts house says.
#2, go back to the yard and ask them for a 3.4 auto flex plate.
I can only tell ya what I was told and I followed all that advice religiously.
I have been told the 3.4 is an internally balanced engine. Solve it now before you stick it under the hood.
The heat trick will work, the hotter the better, tho.
------------------
Chat Soon,
KED85
Karl
1985 Firebird 2.8 to 3.4 swap project for Smog Happy LA, CA
Thread Starter
Member
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 185
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From: Spotsylvania, Va.
Ok... back to where I was (before the spark plug incident) Now, got the #1 cylinder to TDC, dropped in the distributor, and it points almost exactly to #1 cyl. When I tighten it down, it twists around, pointing towards the #3 cyl. I know this is normal, given the way the gears are, but, am I lined up right?
And another thing, does anyone know where I can get simple vaccum diagrams for this motor? Almost all of my vaccum lines have broken, some in more than one place, and I have no idea (partly due to me and my dad working on it while the other's at work, instead of there watching) where most of them go...
------------------
--'87 Camaro LT --
Currently undergoing a 2.8->3.4 swap.....
And another thing, does anyone know where I can get simple vaccum diagrams for this motor? Almost all of my vaccum lines have broken, some in more than one place, and I have no idea (partly due to me and my dad working on it while the other's at work, instead of there watching) where most of them go...
------------------
--'87 Camaro LT --
Currently undergoing a 2.8->3.4 swap.....
Supreme Member
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 7,604
Likes: 1
From: ****SoCal, USA****
Here goes:
I beleive you may have the distributor off a tooth.
Let's have someone else zero in on that detail.
I CAN SAY THAT when I did what you had done, I simply pulled it up and back one tooth. It should be at the #1 & the balancer should be very close or exactly at ZERO on the timing mark. That's how I did mine.
I'm real happy to hear this is working, so far and apparently making sense to you. You are that close! Keep at it.
NOW: hoses
Here's what you do!
I simply rebuilt all the broken ones I had. WHY
Try to get them. YOU CANNOT! I asked dealer.
IF you do find them in a yard, they are as fragile as what you already have.
HOW TO SOLVE THIS?
I spent a whole day making my vacuum hose lines.
One whole day.
I now pull 20 inches of vacuum at idle & 15-almost 18 in gear at idle.
Here's what you do.
Go to your local parts store with a section of the thinnest plastic hose.
I ended up getting 5/16" windshield wiper hose and patching everything back together. THE ONLY PART I REPLACED WAS A T-SECTION, RIGHT BY THE COIL. I found that new!
At the INTAKE MANIFOLD fitting at the distributor, I got new hose, and slipped it over the fitting. Well, it wasn't tight, to my standards. I saw a big leak there, in my future.
How did I solve it?
I wipe the intake manifold fitting with cleaner. I then wrapped electrical tape around the intake manifold fitting. AlOT.
I then slipped the big vacuum hose over it, worked perfect!!
How did you do with the plug in the back of the head, passenger side? Get it out, yet?
Again, take the thin plastic to the parts store, get 5/16" wiper hose, lots of it, wet the platic tip with FINGER WIPE of oil from oil pan, dip stick, etc, anything, slip it over, rebuild lengths of thin plastic.
Back manifold, clean, wrap with black electrical tape, lots of it, place hose over that.
THIS WORKS, IT TOOK ME A WHOLE DAY TO REBUILD WHAT I HAVE.
I doubt you'll have any other option, than my suggestion.
I do suggest you get an vacuum manifold gauge and incorporate this into the engine rebuild. You will see what I am referring to.
Wish i was there to guide you better, but, I can only tell ya where I was.
THIS PART IS SO FRUSTRATING, I'd rebuild, put onto the engine, WHILE ENGINE IN THE ENGINE BAY, I'd touch another part, it would break!
BE REAL PATIENT with this part.
IT'S NO ONE FAULT, you are dealing with VERY THIN, FRAGILE, HEATED OVER & OVER PLASTIC.
Be REAL patient, sounds like your Dad is just as excited as you.
I really hope the balancer part will work for you. Really hope, big time.
I am very tied up on Monday, so I may see this post very late Monday.
Always send an email & we'll hope AOHELL let's it thru!
I sent my Bro some email (he has AOHELL) and they didn't go thru either.
------------------
Chat Soon,
KED85
Karl
1985 Firebird 2.8 to 3.4 swap project for Smog Happy LA, CA
I beleive you may have the distributor off a tooth.
Let's have someone else zero in on that detail.
I CAN SAY THAT when I did what you had done, I simply pulled it up and back one tooth. It should be at the #1 & the balancer should be very close or exactly at ZERO on the timing mark. That's how I did mine.
I'm real happy to hear this is working, so far and apparently making sense to you. You are that close!
Keep at it.NOW: hoses
Here's what you do!
I simply rebuilt all the broken ones I had. WHY
Try to get them. YOU CANNOT! I asked dealer.
IF you do find them in a yard, they are as fragile as what you already have.
HOW TO SOLVE THIS?
I spent a whole day making my vacuum hose lines.
One whole day.
I now pull 20 inches of vacuum at idle & 15-almost 18 in gear at idle.
Here's what you do.
Go to your local parts store with a section of the thinnest plastic hose.
I ended up getting 5/16" windshield wiper hose and patching everything back together. THE ONLY PART I REPLACED WAS A T-SECTION, RIGHT BY THE COIL. I found that new!
At the INTAKE MANIFOLD fitting at the distributor, I got new hose, and slipped it over the fitting. Well, it wasn't tight, to my standards. I saw a big leak there, in my future.
How did I solve it?
I wipe the intake manifold fitting with cleaner. I then wrapped electrical tape around the intake manifold fitting. AlOT.
I then slipped the big vacuum hose over it, worked perfect!!
How did you do with the plug in the back of the head, passenger side? Get it out, yet?
Again, take the thin plastic to the parts store, get 5/16" wiper hose, lots of it, wet the platic tip with FINGER WIPE of oil from oil pan, dip stick, etc, anything, slip it over, rebuild lengths of thin plastic.
Back manifold, clean, wrap with black electrical tape, lots of it, place hose over that.
THIS WORKS, IT TOOK ME A WHOLE DAY TO REBUILD WHAT I HAVE.
I doubt you'll have any other option, than my suggestion.
I do suggest you get an vacuum manifold gauge and incorporate this into the engine rebuild. You will see what I am referring to.
Wish i was there to guide you better, but, I can only tell ya where I was.
THIS PART IS SO FRUSTRATING, I'd rebuild, put onto the engine, WHILE ENGINE IN THE ENGINE BAY, I'd touch another part, it would break!
BE REAL PATIENT with this part.
IT'S NO ONE FAULT, you are dealing with VERY THIN, FRAGILE, HEATED OVER & OVER PLASTIC.
Be REAL patient, sounds like your Dad is just as excited as you
.I really hope the balancer part will work for you. Really hope, big time.
I am very tied up on Monday, so I may see this post very late Monday.
Always send an email & we'll hope AOHELL let's it thru!
I sent my Bro some email (he has AOHELL) and they didn't go thru either.
------------------
Chat Soon,
KED85
Karl
1985 Firebird 2.8 to 3.4 swap project for Smog Happy LA, CA
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