OK, my buddy finished testing it, and looks like all the passenger side cylinders are getting spark, but none of the driver's side are.

Does this mean cap and rotor for sure? Any input greatly apprecaited. Seems like a very weird pattern to me...

-Reno

------------------
'88 Firebird LB8
"Cerberus"
-Supercharged Hybrid LB8/L32 Project-
"Got a green light, got a red light, no cop, no stop, man I don't care, every one of you could be the same, every one of you could play this game, got a green light, got a green light but you're going nowhere..."
http://www.angelfire.com/il/Firebird28/index.html

 

Why have you NOT gotten a cap & rotor yet?
I kinda doubt it tho.
What happened at night time?
Any weird lights shows on plug wires? You can Always cheat and just pull the cap and see what you see.
If it's not cracked, you can just clean contacts with sand paper & screwdriver.
Weird-er things have happened.
My coil was history.
I got spark, but not enough.

------------------
Chat Soon,
KED85
Karl
1985 Firebird 2.8 to 3.4 swap project for Smog Happy LA, CA

 

I'm about 200 miles away from my car, and teaching a kid how to do the tests for me by talking to him online, I'm kinda working blind here, so cut me some slack.

What do you mean "I kinda doubt it." Could it be something else? I won't get to see it in person for another week, so I'd like to have some definitive answers, since I'll only have a 10 hour wondow or so to get it going again. If I can't, gotta leave it for a month or so after that.

Any other input?

-Reno

 

I would recommend new plugs, wires, cap, rotor, pickup coil, maybe even ignition coil. Even a module, too, I don't know though. The only thing I can think of that would cause the plugs to fire only on one side is bad plugs or wires. Or, could be faulty testing (don't want to insult, but it is always a possibility - I've done it before )?

Vman

------------------
1969 Camaro Sport Coupe
383, 700R4, leather, everything black but the lights

Previous owner of an 89 RS Camaro
2.8L V6, 700R4

 

Reno,
What I mean by kinda doubt it is....
Do you believe that only one side of engine gets spark and the other does not?
That truly does not make sense.
I strongly suspect, that if he cannot fire the engein, he has what I had.
Complete ignition failure.
The spark is not strong enough to fire the car.
I tested injectors, got spark, rebuilt distributor, new parts in distributor, still no engine start.
I went home, got the Accel coil from my S-10 Blazer (with over 100,000 miles of usage & ten years old). I put it on the Firebird, started right up!
I believe his coil is shot.
You/he will/is get spark, but not clean, bright white spark.
The spark he gets is only kinda blue-ish, right?
If a cap is broken, you'd stil spark & start, but you'd see sparks all over the engine bay. It looks really cool, but, not correct to run right!

------------------
Chat Soon,
KED85
Karl
1985 Firebird 2.8 to 3.4 swap project for Smog Happy LA, CA

 

The coil is Accel, and about 10 months old. Thanks for the advice folks. Keep it coming.

-Reno

 

OK if he still has the old coil on the car, SIMPLE.
Tell me it worked before he went to the Accel unit.
Tell him to disconnect the Accel unit. Hook back up his old coil.
IF it worked before the coil upgrade, it'll work, now. He has eliminated one more varible.
It could be the stuff under the cap.
THE ONLY WAY TO REALLY FIX THE STUFF UNDER THE CAP IS TO REMOVE THE DIST. FROM THE CAR AND REBUILD IT WITH NEW ELECTRONICS. You cannot remove the circle coil on the shaft, any other way. From one that knows.

------------------
Chat Soon,
KED85
Karl
1985 Firebird 2.8 to 3.4 swap project for Smog Happy LA, CA

 

Ked, you're a genius, and you've done the swap, you are the man, but slow down a little. First, it's my car, just stranded at his place. Second, it's the entire 300+ system, not just the coil. Of course it worked fine before installation, and it's run great for nearly a year after the installation. No, I don't have the old coil lying around, I live in a dorm room.

As for spark color, he assured me the spark coming off the coil was massive, white, and bright. He said the cables that did spark at all were bluish and pinkish.

Where can I get one of these distributor rebuild kits, and how much do they go for? As of now, he already picked up the parts for my broke @$$, we've got a new Accel Cap and Rotor, splitfire plugs (don't argue with me, I love them, they go in), and new Accel 8mm wires. Any other suggestions? From what he told me about the spark being clean from the coil, but dead after the cap, I'm thinking I had one of those infamous Accel cap meltdowns some people talk about...

-Reno

 

Reno why dont you get the CraneCam wires 8.5 MM for 10 bucks????

 

There's no real kits avail for the distributor... you need to buy the parts separate. For a full rebuild:

1. Pick-up coil. ~$12-15
2. Spark module. ~$45-60
3. Distrib seal: 1 inch "Inside Diameter" O-ring. ~$0.50
4. Cap/Rotor kit: ~$8-20

Karl mentioned before a good fix for the cap/rotor. If there's excessive carbon tracking on the terminals inside the cap (looks like thick white streaks), they can be scraped off with a metalworker's file or sandpaper. The terminals "flat" inside, so don't "dig in" to them. The rotor might also have some garbage built up on the tip that spins near the cap terminals. I've had buildup so bad before that the car performed horribly- but never that it wouldn't spark on one side of the engine.

The Helms (GM) book has procedures to test the spark module & pick-up coil.. but I don't recall them offhand.

Plugging an old stock coil in would be a great test... too bad you don't have one kicking around.

------------------
-Tom P (Hot rodded 1986 Firebird 2.8l) from http://www.f-body.net/mailbag/3rd/3rd_mailbag.html message boards
---Think your car could be pic of the week? Visit http://www.f-body.net for details!

 

Hey Reno.
I lived in College dorm rooms too.
Lotta fun!
Anyway...
I thought maybe the coil was still in the car on the bracketry.
Now I/We all have more details.
Don't waste time on the plug wires.
They are all ok, I'll bet.
Nor the plugs, etc.
Just hold onto them, for the moment and have them as spares. I think your car will be going zoom, soon.
I rebuilt the dist, easy.
Removed it, at the bottom by gear is a small roll pin. Knock it out & slip pieces apart.
I cleaned the shaft with sand paper (fine grained) and brake cleaner. I just made it shiny. I replaced the shaft coil. That was about $10-$15. The control modular is about $50-$60-$70. It's held in by 2 small machined screws. I then applied axle grease (a FILM) to the shaft, slipped back together the shaft and housing. I then visually, aligned all the contacts, by hand spinning and looking at them. At the same time, this also relubed the inside of the distributor housing and the shaft.
I made it spin freely.
I then inserted the roll pin (there are no shims, like on a small block chevy distributor), and stuck it back in. Connected wires. But, in my instance, I still had no spark, as my coil was shot.
I do strongly suggest, to make this easy, reattach everything factory original and go forward.
I so appreciate the comment I am a genius and the man.
I wish it was so.
I AM NOT SMARTER NOR ANY BETTER THEN ANYONE OF OF YOUR GUYS HERE!
Everyone, here, has taught me so much, I cannot be more thankful and grateful for all the tips encouragement and great friendships you all have given me. I count this place as one of my blessings in life.

Let's go back again.
The car drove there.
While sitting overnight or whatever, did someone come & ruin one complete side of the engine sparking system?
Doubt it.
You have added some tricks into the ignition system, right?
If you have spark, the weak link is somewhere. It does not decide to not work on one side, only. That's not normal.
There is a break and it can be located.
Is the original coil, still in the bracketry on the car?
Then bypass all the hot rod stuff and hook that up to try and start the car.
Incidentally, the cap and plugs, etc. The cap has the 6 contacts for the plug wires.
It's almost like every other one, goes to each side.
If all the cap contacts, in a line, went to only one side, yea, it could be the cap and rotor.
But, again, one cap/plug contact, driver side, next passenger side, etc.
On my 1985, the rotor, contact, went off the proper alignment point. I still had the car run. Not so great and I was rather surprised to see the condition of the rotor looking like that, but, it still ran.
Tell me you can re-hook up the factory ignition system, look under the cap.
I think something went bad, loose and that's your reason for failure.
Wish I was close by to enjoy this search for ignition failure.

You are as smart as the next person. NEVER let anyone think they are any better. They are not God. They have some smarts. So do you.
Teamwork.
I NEVER had an Accel cap go bad. After 20 years, never.
IF one side of plug wires went bad, you'd be able to see why (melting against something!).
Go back to original coil (if ya can), look under cap (that's easy to do), replace plug wires, one at a time.
I can tell ya, bad plug wires, will give ya a sign before they totally fail. A miss, etc.
Don't bother with the plugs, yet. Extra effort.
I doubt they are worn out. I've re-used plugs before.
You are only trying to start the car.
Make real sure and this is simple tip, make sure the plug wires are in the correct spot on the cap and engine.
I once flopped a plug wire and my car would not start. I had a buddy come over, wack me upside my head, flip 2 wires and zoom.
I kicked him in the a$$ for being so smart.
But, I learned.
You'll graduate with honors!
Party on!
It sounds like the stuff (electronics)under the cap have failed.
Go get more (distributor coil & distributor modular), save the "new" stuff (to be returned), and rebuild distributor. Then use the old coil (if there in car), to try to start.
One never replaces those items. You think thy can go forever.
Nope.
To replace the distributor coil does require removal. And it's only a $10 item.
Make sure he puts theh car at top dead center, on the "0" of the balancer mark, before removal of distributor.
I ALSO SUGGEST YOU GET A CHEVY SMALL BLocK DISTRIBUTOR GASKET (FelPro, not cork! Cork is to thick!), when you remove the dist.
Place a film of Black RTV on both sides. That will stop that infamous leak back there.
Best thoughts!
You gave me the answer when you said the plug spark is bluish.




------------------
Chat Soon,
KED85
Karl
1985 Firebird 2.8 to 3.4 swap project for Smog Happy LA, CA

 

Wait though, if I'm getting any spark at all, wouldn't that mean the module is fine?

The Accel w/remote coil fits right where your old one goes, so nope, no chance of the old one being used at all. As for the distributor coil in your rebuild, how do I get that off? And how did youreset your timing after you tore it apart? And how do I even remove the distributor shaft if I need to?

-Reno

 

Reno,
How's it going?
My answer for rebuild is above this & your response.
I rebuilt the dist, easy.
Removed it, at the bottom by gear is a small roll pin. Knock it out & slip pieces apart.
I cleaned the shaft with sand paper (fine grained) and brake cleaner. I just made it shiny. I replaced the shaft
coil. That was about $10-$15. The control modular is about $50-$60-$70. It's held in by 2 small machined
screws. I then applied axle grease (a FILM) to the shaft, slipped back together the shaft and housing. I then
visually, aligned all the contacts, by hand spinning and looking at them. At the same time, this also relubed
the inside of the distributor housing and the shaft.
I made it spin freely.
I then inserted the roll pin (there are no shims, like on a small block chevy distributor), and stuck it back in.
Connected wires. But, in my instance, I still had no spark, as my coil was shot.
Give it a try!
Remember, get the SBC distributor gasket for putting back in!
My shaft coil, fell apart in my hand, so corroded with rust etc!
Engine washings, I assume from previous owners.
Let us know!

------------------
Chat Soon,
KED85
Karl
1985 Firebird 2.8 to 3.4 swap project for Smog Happy LA, CA

 

Well, it seems like my buddy is being sweet talked by the guys at Autozone, cause he's running me up a helluva bill. I swear, parts stores can smell fresh blood, and try to sell them ANYTHING.

He sent me an email telling me he's got Accel 8.8 wires on backorder (I've wanted to get them, but the priority here is getting it running at all), Rapidfire plugs (I wanted splitfires!!!! sunuva...), and I'm pretty sure he said they sold him a damn module (could be the problem, but might not be).

I told him I'd pay him back for whatever he picked up, but he's spending WAY too much of my money now. I appreciate what he's doing 100%, and he knows I won't be able to pay him back for it all too soon, but still...

Guys, save yourselves! Never leave you car behind!!!

Next update will be Saturday, I guess. I'll either be cheering or retiring for the next month til I can get home again (end of the semester).

-Reno

 

Hey Reno,
there are two items under th dist. cap.
The shaft coil (ONLY accessible by removing the distributor & disassembling the distributor to replace it-which is why you rebuild it, you're 90% there) and the ignition modular, held on my 2 screws. easy to replace, but about $50-70.
AC Rapidfires are good plugs!!
Tell him to screw the plug wires, you can get tit to run without those things, right now.

------------------
Chat Soon,
KED85
Karl
1985 Firebird 2.8 to 3.4 swap project for Smog Happy LA, CA