as some of you may know im swapping in a 2.8 out of a 93 s10 and swapping it into my camaro since a rod started knocking. well yesterday i dropped it in and today i started to bolt up the bellhousing and the torque converter, i got the bell housing just fine but when i went to get the torque converter i couldnt get it to go in all the way, the shaft on the converter isnt going all the way in the crankshaft. well my step dad remembed the s10 was a manual and thought there was a barring in the end of it so we dropped the tranny so he could press that barring out but there isnt one. we cant figure it out and neither has anyone weve asked around here known, help please??

 

The only difference would be the pilot shaft bushing that would be in the crank in a manual vehicle. A manual S-10 definitely uses a pilot shaft bushing.

Posting pictures of the suspected problem would help determine for sure if it is a problem or not.

 

see thats what we thought, but both the crank shafts feel and look the same, we cant feel the bushings. ill go get pictures now

 

The torque converter has to engauge the trans pump w/ 3 clunks, if it didn't the TC will be tight to the flex plate. When you had the engine bolted up, did the TC slide back & forth at all?

 

yeah after we unbolted it , we slid it back

 

my step dad did a small test iv never seen, he took a socket that fit in the crankshaft hole to where only one end of the socket would fit, the side that the rachet goes in only slipped into the s10s engine, but on the camaros engine the part that you put over the bolt slipped into the crankshaft hole. bushing? the only thing is my step dad said he cant see or feel one and that its also cast iron in there, does this sound like a bushing to you guys? if so how can i tell? and how can i get it out? please guys i need help quickly. im new to all this

 

Post a picture.

Are you saying that the S-10 had a smaller hole in the end of the crankshaft?

If you are, it definitely has a bushing in there.

 

i tried tonight, not enough light and i couldnt get enought light into the hole. ill try more tomorrow when i get outta school.

 

There is no shaft on the converter that goes onto the crank, install the converter on the trans, not the engine, you will have to rotate it back and forth pushing gently till you hear 3 clicks as it goes back further each time, easier to do this with the trans upright if its out of the car, then put the engine in with the flexplate on it, and bolt converter to flexplate. Also you should fill the tqc with fluid before installing it, and put some on the trans input spline as well.

 

there is like a stub nose on the end of the conveter that goes in the center of the flywheel into the engine. then flywheels on the car and the converter is on the tranny

 

The converter doesn't connect to the crank in any way whatsoever, it has 3 bolt holes around the perimiter, that bolt it to the flexplate(the only way its connected to it), which in turn is bolted to the crank, the engine side of the converter is more or less flat, the other side has a snout with 2 keyways in it and splines inside that mate up to the input splineshaft of the transmission....
Idk if you have a flywheel instead of a flexplate or what, but there really is only one way to install a torque converter, and mate it with the engine and trans and its pretty clearcut...

 

Please stop.

The center of the torque converter has a stub that locates in the crank recess. This is why it is important to remove the pilot bushing from the crank.

 

Well I was about to argue but took a look at my old tq converter and apparently it does, didn't recall it being there, so maybe the 3.4 tq converter I switched to doesn't have it, or my memory is just completely fubar and I'm completely wrong, unfortunately one of the annoyances of not having my car where I am is I can't just go and check...could swear it just connects to the flex by bolts though.

 

That is all that holds the torque converter to the flexplate, but there is the stub in the middle to align the converter to the crank shaft.

 

how do i get that bushing out? my step dad said i could use wheel bearing grease and a socket to try and press it out but it didnt work so im lost. how to get i get these out? also my buddy told me to try greasing the end of the TC since its dry. i got pictures but my emails not letting me save them for some reason so ill get them on here asap

 

 

autozone rents a tool for that

 

they do????

 

i thought they did...might just be the install tool

 

what would it be under so i can check?

 

You can google search different techniques.

One of the most recent I have heard of, is to use little pieces of paper to press in and force the bushing out.

 

well i ran my finger along the inside of the shaft, its all smooth, tried press fitting again and it didnt work, autozone cant find one for my car, and people are telling me i need a new converter because my current one is too long. ill post a pic of it in a minute.

 

The picture above definitely looks like it has a pilot bushing, which would feel smooth on the inside.

There is only one length of 700R4 converter (for the V6/I4) that I know of, they all locate inside the recess in the crank.

Autozone can't find what for your car?

 

ill post some pictures of the inside of the crank and of the TC, autozone cant find a pilot bushing instal rod thing for my car, i was gonna try and use ball bearing grease and that since those tools have such a snug fit to press it out. can you circle in that picture where i could find it at? is it that shiny metal ring on just the outside of the lip of the flywheel? the silver ring? or is in inside the crank shaft?

 

 

The bushing is inside the recess in the crank. It's just a simple bushing, usually made of a soft material like copper.

 

is it painted? because inside the crankshaft all i see is silver thats all smooth, i dont see any lips or anything

 

it all looks cast....if i got a new converter which i really dont wanna do would i need one for a 93 s10? could i use it with my tranny?

 

You don't need a new converter.

What you need to do is figure out why your current converter isn't going into the crank, which because your engine came from a manual equipped vehicle will need the pilot bushing removed.

 

it goes in there it just doesnt go all the way. i may look at it again tomorrow myself since the last time my dad did it and i wasnt under there. are there any pictures of how the converter bolted up? like a picture with just the inspection cover off? that would help me alot so i can see whats catching or if he just thinks it needs to go deeper when its all the way in. ill keep looking for that bushing..

 

Ta Da... http://www.autozone.com/autozone/ino...Content=clutch

Can also pack the inside of the bushing and end of the crank with grease and force a rod in the middle of it to force the bushing out with "hydraulic" pressure. I see you already tried that, but you probably didn't use anywhere near enough grease or the rod wasn't the right size.

The off-colored ring in the middle of the crank is the bushing. You're NEVER going to get the converter into the crank without removing the bushing.

:edit: Also, looks like some idiot may have used locking compound on the outside of it... It's going to be a big fight.

 

I can get you a picture of how mines bolts up to it tomorrow as my inspection pan isnt on the car and the car is on ramps right now anyways. Although I could have sworn my torque converter did not have that stud on it. I probably dont remember it cause it seemed to fit perfectly the first time. I remember I jsut slid the converter forward and bolted it to the flex plate. Now im just as curious.

 

i was using a socket to try and push it out, not a rod, i think it was a 13mm socket. the orange on the flywheel is paint. i painted it orange as is the block

 

A socket is NOT going to work. You see, it has a big old HOLE in the middle of it. What you use to build the pressure on the other side of the bushing has to hold the pressure, which something with a hole will NOT.

In your first pic, that orangeish thing in the middle that's surrounded by the crank to flywheel bolts is the bushing. This would be the thing with the striped appearance...

My crank is loose enough I can try to get a pic, but I don't know if it's a color that is able to be differentiated from the surrounding crankshaft.

And yes, every torque converter I've seen has the alignment snout.

 

Ok I guess I was wrong my torque converter has the alignment stud aswell. I jsut never noticed.

 

Or, instead of fighting with the bushing, you could cut a hole in the firewall and under the console and swap to a manual trans... It's easy now that you have both the engine and trans out anyways.

 

well i gave up today. i went to autozone and got that tool, no luck, nothing. went and got my 90 degree pick and traced every inch of the inside of that and nothing no lips or anything! well needless to say i had my mechanic come look at it for me. he said that gm used different cranks in the years and said i had 3 choices, replace the crank, drill out the end of that hole to let the TC fit in, or grind the TC. well i grinded the TC down alittle, like a 16th of an inch so very little. going in tomorrow... should be done soon but now my damn waterpumps leaking...bolts are too short i guess..

 

Umm, the 2.8 crank was the same in ALL 2.8 engines after 1985 (it was changed only in the middle crankpin for the reluctor ring but was the same crank until 88-89 when the 3.1 came out to play)... So we know he's (your mechanic) an idiot.

As for grinding the converter, I don't think it will hurt it any but you should've done it right. I mean you can see the bushing right there. Anybody that can't tell the difference is blind... Take the flexplate back off and take another pic of the end of the crank. BTW, don't forget to use blue locking compound on the flexplate bolts and on the TC bolts as well.

 

well i asked my step dad and my mechanic about that because thats what i originally thought but i was told i was wrong each time....i have no clue on any of this as this is my first time in this....

 

and since iv been on this for almost a month when i was told it would be a total of 3 days i want this done and done fast.

 

Your mechanic doesn't know what he's talking about.

This is the first time ever, in all the years I've been around these engines, that I have heard anything like this, read about a problem like this, or seen so much difficulty with a swap like this.

the recess in the end of the crank was the same all the way through the 660 family, including the gen3. As farther proof, I used a FWD crankshaft in my RWD (Jimmy) with a manual trans, and used a common S-10 pilot bushing in that crank, with a stock trans bolted up.

 

do not install that converter now that u ground on it, u are asking for problems, mainly breaking the flexplate, and also destroying the front input shaft bushing and possibly the pump on the transmission

 

How do i post something? i just signed up and a little confused

 

on each page were it lists the posts look for the new thread button

its on the top left of the pages

 

my cars an auto, no flexplate i have a flywheel

 

You have a flexplate....manual has a flywheel

 

read his first post, why he knows he has a flywheel not a flex plate

"well my step dad remembed the s10 was a manual and thought there was a barring in the end of it so we dropped the tranny so he could press that barring out but there isnt one. "

They are trying to put a auto into a manual truck.
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And as of now OP id just stop and find someone who knows more, your just gonna hurt yourself or trash parts.

 

The OP said something that nobody has picked up on even though you are all probably right about a pilot bearing in there. He said it is shiny so that would indicate again that it is a bushing to be removed. By the picture it appears that the very center recessed ring is the bushing that was pushed up tight to the crank. Without a better pic it is hard to tell if the orange area is bushing or crank. He said it was the same color as the block so I am not sure about that. It does look like it might be a bushing with the dark ring just outside of it. As somebody said it looks as if a red loctite was used.

 

No, he's trying to install a 2.8L from a manual S-10 into his automatic F-body.

 

either way he ain't doing it right or hes having fun with us.

Id close the thread and start all over with the facts of what he has and has done. way to much confusion on what going on.

its gone into the TwlightZone
Let me take you on a ride of mind and imagnation, where a simple engine swap turns into a cluster BLEEP