After all the time and money i put in this engine, the dyno results were a little disappointing:

At the rear wheels
162 ft - lb
123 hp at 4250rpm


Engine mods include

2.8L block bored .040"
3.1L crankshaft
Hypereutectic pistons
Comp camshaft - duration: 252/252 lift: .425/.425
1.6:1 roller tip rocker arms
stock iron heads - ported
stock intake plenum
stock throttle body
24 lb/hr injectors

I have plenty of low end torque that doesn't start to drop off until 4000rpm. Peak hp comes at about 4200 rpm then drops off sharply.

The tech tuning my car suggested a better flowing intake and bigger exhaust. (obviously)

My current exhaust setup:

pacesetter mid-length headers - 1.5" primaries into 2.25" collectors
2.25" y-pipe
no cat
2.5" inlet/outlet moroso race muffler
2 feet of 2.5" pipe
2.5" turn down before passenger rear wheel

I'm going to install a 3" race muffler with 3" pipe and turn down at same location. This should take care of any exhaust restrictions.

As far as intake goes, my engine is choking to death. With my current setup, I should be making power up to at least 5500rpm. I NEED a bigger throttle body. Any suggestions? Does the 3.4 upper intake plenum flow better than the 2.8 plenum? Or should I just make my own intake?

also, I'm NOT going to do the 3x00 swap, so don't post about it.

Any suggestions and feed back would be greatly appreciated.

 

At your power level 2.5" exhaust is more than enough, It's not a restriction at all. Any larger and you are just making more noise.


Lets assume 160 HP @ the crank... A 160 HP engine needs about 352 CFM of exhaust flow, a 2.5" pipe (no bends) flows around 900 CFM. Your Moroso muffler flows around 800 CFM (assuming it's a spiral flow). With all the bends you are still probably above 600 CFM.



Is the intake at least gasket matched?

Unless you get some more port flow your numbers are pretty much it. Assuming your heads are well ported you could possibly switch to a carb style manifold and run TBI to get rid of those long tiny runners.

 

that is disapointing, Didn't pillsbry make 131 hp at the wheels with bolt ons am i missing something ?

 

Yes, heads were ported using a flow bench at a machine shop. No, the intake is not gasket matched. I haven't touched it whatsoever. Like i said, the engine is running rich (up to 11.75:1) and is in desperate need of air. I've considered running that tbi setup but opted away. As far as the exhaust goes, the technician at the dyno shop recommended I use 3" for single exhaust. He has over 20 years experience and has a very reputable name around here. I guess the dyno numbers will be proof when i take it back again. I don't mind sacrificing some low end torque to gain horsepower. The dyno being used is a mustang dyno and from my understanding are very accurate and tend to error on the low side.

Any insight on the 3.4 intake/ throttle body? Any ideas for a custom setup?

 

cams to small for one , the stock intake does not have a big enough plenum to flow up high

the 3.4 intake is better but could use some mods itself
and ur losin a decent bit of power with that 11.7-1 afr
get that afr around 12.8-13.2

 

pilsburys numbers
3.1 = 133hp and 178 tq =)
3.4 = 174hp and 210 tq N/A < done with a slipping clutch
3.4Turbo = ?

 

Any guy that tells you to run a 3" exhaust on a sub 300 HP car is not exactly what i'd call reputable. Like i said, any larger than you have and you are just going to make more noise. Your exhaust only flows as well as the biggest restriction, and in your case there isn't one (aside from the heads). Same for the intake side, your ported heads aren't doing you any good at all with the rest of the path stock.



Do you have the flow numbers for the heads?

 

Hook a vacuum gauge up to manifold vacuum, run the car down the road w/ the gauge taped to the windshield. If you can get to zero on the gauge under load (WOT) then you wont benefit from a larger t-body, but your still showing 1-2" on the gauge then you will benefit.
Did you degree the cam in? You can move the powerband around alittle by advancing or retarding the cam. I used the kit for a SBC, the cam gear bolt pattern is the same as a 60*v6.
Have you played w/ the ignition timing or the fuel pressure?

 

At my peak horsepower im at 13.19:1 afr. 12.74:1 is my average. Do you know of a cam with higher lift than .425 that will fit these engines? the 1.6:1 rockers raise that number too.

 

The dyno shop adjusted and set my fuel pressure via the ecm to account for increased injector flow rate. They also dialed in my timing.

Im going to see what my vacuum is at WOT. Thanks for the tip, i completely forgot about that.

 

I did 121/153, stock with under drive pulleys and cat removed.

Your numbers kinda confirm that these engines are worthless without boost or hybrid. No offense, I'd just be disappointed if I had replaced internal parts, to still dyno 12X at the wheels.

 

None taken. I fully agree with you. I hope other people don't make the same mistake i did.

I'm still going to weld up a custom intake with a larger tb. It won't be pretty but anything is better than stock. I'm going to keep this project cheap. I'm sick and tired of spending money for little or no gain. I'll post more dyno numbers when all is said and done

 

Does anyone build a drop in 3.1 or 3.4 long block that's capable of near 200 hp?

 

Your engine is choking on fuel... 24# injectors are WAY too big for that engine. Heck, my 3100 hybrid only requires 21# injectors to make about 230 HP, with better air flow. Hate to tell you this, but the only way you're going to get decent numbers is to chuck the intake and heads and get some FWD heads on there. Giving the engine a bigger TB without solving the problems between it and the chambers is pointless and a waste of time and money. You can get small-port 3100 heads for cheaper than you will spend on the upper plenum and TB mods and get a big increase in air flow. Check here to find out what size injectors you will need: http://www.rceng.com/technical.aspx

BTW, he's not running full 2.5" exhaust, it's 2.25" most of the way. Which is another reason the engine is choking. And yes, 3" at the back is overkill with the rest of the system being too small...

 

This is the cam I'm using, it's not too bad. With 1.6 roller rockers.

 

u still need more tunning,
contact delta cams for 50 bucks u can get a 260 grind cam with .500 lift
1.6 rockers would increase lift on that cam or ur current cam but not by much, iron heads benifit from .500 lift and above

best advice if ur going to build an intake just get a 3.4 manifold cut the crossover tube off of it, then cut the entire top off the intake and make it about 3/4 of an inch taller

 

lose any turn downs, axle loops, turn outs....... a simple 90* for a side turn out kill my upper RPM band on the street.

next tiime when on Dyno unhook stock intake system, after the sensors / your inside with clean air, don't need the filter slowing it down.

 

24lb injectors????? are you serious? why do you have such big injectors? im surprised that thing runs

it put out about what you should expect of a 2.8...even with mods, bout the only good mod for these motors is boost. its fun

 

i sent you a pm

 

who?

 

Those numbers are actually pretty impressive for an iron headed 660.

No amount of exhaust work, or intake work will get you the results that you want.

 

sorry, zeb's got a pm

 

That's what I've been saying for years.

 

I betcha a stock LG4 wouldn't be much better.

 

with these motors(2.8,3.1,3.4) if you do all the mods it really only gets you up to what the engine was rated for at the crank to the wheels instead. without boost thats about as far as itll go. if your lucky maybe a hair more than that.

 

mine had me horribly disappointed on the dyno, too. but, what does the 1/4 mile say? that's what I'm more worried about.

 

I haven't been to the strip since the tune. When I get a time slip, i will be sure to post it. I can say that the car runs like a dream and sounds "mean" according to some of the local guys with stangs. They thought I had swapped in a 350. That just shows what they know about real cars. (They do drive mustangs by the way.) With the 4.10 posi out back, spinning the tires has never been easier. And with the hurst short throw, this car is a blast to drive! Yes, the dyno results are sad but, there's always room for improvement.

 

that explains ur low dyno numbers right there. what ppl dont relize is gearing will affect dyno numbers.

put the 3:42's back in it and the numbers will jump up,but real world the car will be slower in the 1/4

track time is truley the best way to see what its really making for power

 

4.10s are stayin in. I care more about 1/4 mile time anyways. I'll take it to the strip and let you guys know as soon as I'm done with the body work and paint.

Thanks!

 

i'm with p89 on this one. 3.42's 3.73 at the highest. correct if i'm wrong p89. but isn't the 4.10 ratio to high for the fact that our first gears are already to short as it is?

 

wow how much did you spend on it? and its still slower than the cheapest lowest optioned hondas from the early 90's

 

4.10 is ok for a 5 speed. its real short with a 700r4. I ran 4.10s for a while with my 700r4. It works ok, really. it was more of an 1/8 mile car than a 1/4 mile car then but, it wasn't bad. not even on the interstate.
jkrustchinsky, i wouldn't go that far. it'll probably run with (or maybe out run) stock or mildly modified 305s. I hope that's not what you have in your 82 t/a... and yes, I done it many times with mine.

 

you wouldnt catch me sleeping with a 305, look at my last thread. Im running a 350 with a roots supercharger. I doubt many v6's could catch me. Not saying there arent many that are fast its just not even smart to consider throwing money into the black hole called a v6. and to be marginally beating a stock or mild 305 is nothing to brag about

 

no one said any of us were "smart"

however some of us arent marginally beating 305's

 

I didn't beat the vette z06 but, this is an example of what a n/a v6 can do. i don't think I even had $1k into the motor (probably was way under that, don't know for sure, though. wasn't really counting.)... not too much for a completely rebuilt/built motor.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VuzQW45kv0s

 

For the record, i have never lost a "street race" to an import car. Mustangs and Corvettes are the only cars that are flat out faster. I put a turbo CRX to shame just last night. I couldn't tell you for sure how much money is in my engine. I can tell you with confidence that I probably have the quickest 123hp car around. I can't "talk the talk" with these dyno numbers, but I can sure "walk the walk" As far as I'm concerned, the numbers are worthless.

 

yall are hilarious

 

I love my v6 but it's not meant to be a hot rod or anything. My dad's friend has old's cutlass with a 350 that made 300whp on the dyno and got beat by a gmc typhoon by about 3 cars length. I love v8's too but with the price of gas reaching $4.00 a gallon it's not the best daily driver material. It's like some of the v8 guys are trying to compensate for something so they come and hate on the v6 It ain't the size of the engine it's how you build it

 

jkrustchinsky you need to learn something about people, engines and ingenuity.

No matter what, someone, somewhere will find a way to squeeze more power out of smaller displacement and less cylinders. There will always be someone to get another 10, 20, 50, 100 HP out of an engine by some form of ingenuity.
There are also people who don't need to have large displacement engines to compensate for other shortcomings or areas they lack in their automotive or even daily lives. These people don't need to stand up an bang their chests grunting "Me have bigger engine than you." This is especially true when they are talking with people in their own interest group. It's not like the V6 enthusiasts run to the 4cyl boards and beat their chests there, about how much larger an powerful their engines are.

Now, back on topic with no more chest beating, or bans will be handed out, the number of times that V8 enthusiasts come in here trolling is ridiculous and needs to stop.

If you want to discuss racing, there are two forums specifically for that on this site.

 

do you carry a soap box with you everywhere or just on internet forums?




look more power to you guys, but my girlfriends 4 cyl "import" would smoke these amazing 123hp power plants

btw, her 4 cylinder is 23 years old, sohc, bone stock, porsche 944, 2800lb car.