Hey i'm pretty new to thirdgen i'm looking into buying my first car i'm definately getting a camaro or a firebird. Prbly anything between 1984-1990 depending on the price. Could u please tell me some specifications of certain models that where best of their kind. Like i hear the 85 model wuz very nicely manufactured. Also some tips before buying the car like on the test drive and stuff to listen for stuff to look for etc.
Thanx
Soon 2 Be Car Guy

 

Another thing i'm just getting into engine mods i was wondering wut price range would it cost me to super charge the car with NOS??? I have a garage and the time 2 do it mostly myself. But alotta car stuff i'm just learnin about so not 2 hard on the tech talk.

 

I've got an 85 and it sure is something special. Some things to look for when you're checking out your car.

First of all, what kind of car are you looking out? V8 or V6? Stick or Auto?

------------------
85 2.8L Sport Coupe 5-speed.
Mods: Hpertech chip and powerstat, MSD 6A-L, Crane fireball coil, Accel Cap and Rotor, Dynomax hi-flow cat and catback system with a dynomax magnum race bullet muffler on the i-pipe, K&N filterchargers, Gutted Air Boxes, 8mm Wires, Eibach Sportlines and Tokiko springs/shocks setup, Global west sub frames, Suspension techniqs front and rear sway bars, and good ole 88 IROC wheels with Kumo Ecstas on em!
"It's not the ricers, it's those damn V8's!"

Wins: 2000 V6 Accord, 69 302 Mustang, 2000 Auto VR6 Jetta, 89 Toyota MR2, 90 Civic Si, 76 350 Camaro, 2000 3.8 5-speed Camaro, ~68 Chevelle 350, 92 CRX Si.

 

Amatuar ,
In 90-91 f-body models with the V6 engine , the 3.1 engine is in these models .85-on up 2.8 engine .I know the 88-89s are fuel injected .Not sure on the rest of the years 85-87.When I test drove my car I checked the oil first before I even drove it.This can help alot b/c it can tell you what kinda shape the motor is in , if there is metal particles are trash in the oil , id stay away from buying the car , or if it appears the oil has not been changed in awhile ( real black or a real dark brown , stay way from buying the car .I also checked the other fluids .My radiator to see if there was any rust or alot of rust in it .break fluid , etc.When I drove the car ,I breaked kinda hard one time to see how the breaks were working .Took off kinda hard to see how it responded .Those kinda things help alot .It wont garantee you from getting a lemon used car but it will help alot .Goodluck and let us know how things go Wayne ...88 white rs

 

If this is your first car get a V6 ,It will save you in money in the long run "TICKETS".
Another thing the V8's really have alot of torque and when you romp down on them they can get real loose. The v6's handle much better because of the weight balance ratio ,and they will keep you out of trouble.
As far as the NOS thing , give it a while .
NOS can really wipe out a stock engine.

 

it depends on what kind you want. camaro,firebird, stick or auto. I have a firebird right now. 1982-1984 the v6's were carb. from 85-90 the v6's were fi. i heard that the firebird se was real rare. they only made it from 82-86. the other guy was right, the v6 balences the car out better. ive got a good hourse power recipe. ill send it to you if you want me to.

 

Hey V6camaroman, can you send me your recipe, pleeeeeeeease? Thank you. I am trying to figure out the best configuration(I think it is mispelled) of modding for these cars. Thanks

~Josh~ beangta@aol

 

Look at the body.
You want the most rust free car you can buy.
Next comes drivetrain.
Use common sense & how deep are your pockets?
Not kidding
You want to do the work, but you need to learn and you have time and a grage.
Receipe for disaster.
You'll need guidance & knowledge and deep pockets.
PLEASE NOT DISCOURAGING.
Just, I've been there, everyone else has & you get to join that club.
You'll do well here, with your questions.
Just worry about a sound foundation, then play with the engine for secure RELIABLE power.
No one to help ya buy a good car up there?

------------------
Chat Soon,
KED85
Karl
1985 Firebird 2.8 to 3.4 swap project for Smog Happy LA, CA

 

Hate to a me too but I see your recipe to?

 

First of all thanx for all your recommendations its helped alot. I was checkin this 86 firebird and the oil was TERRIBLE and the radiator was pretty rusted good thing i didn't buy that eh? Next everyone asks me V6 or V8 OMG V6'S ALLLLLL THE WAY!!! I love V6 for so many reasons. Mileage Power Just the feel of the car my friend has a 1985 firebird sport couple I LOVE THAT CAR it has a v6 by the way. Its what inspired me 2 buy a firebird. Now i mean i love the feeling of Stick cuz u really feel the power of the car and u can get more speed out if it if u're experienced but then again i dunno if i'm ready for it should i just go with auto??? How expensive would it be 2 change 2 Stick later on??? Just i can't stand sitting in traffic and every 2 second i u have 2 change gears u're foot get really soar hehe.Fuel injected is better or?????

Soon 2 be FireBird Slave

 

Oh yea and what do u guyz recommend firebird or camaro. In price in engine in year of car that kinda stuff.

 

Another thing my friend is 85Firebird_NOS and if u read his post u'll see what he did and i know the way he attemped the burn out is completely idiotic but still doesn't that mean the car has 2 much torque? Is there anything i could do 2 avoid something like that? I'm worried even if i do it properly it will still **** up just won't **** the tranny the proper way through just holdin the breaks revving and lettin go of the breaks. Well thanx for all your support

 

I swapped in my 3.4 engine for $850 total. I paid $650 for my tranny (auto). I paid $300 for my car & $300-ish for misc. items.
My car runs great and is reliable!
Receipe for disaster.
I'm gonna change the timing chain.
Opps, the bolts broke. Have to tow to garage.
That's how it starts.
Ya get/have guidance or a good knowledgable friend or ya pay for the work to be done. Labor goes for $40-60/hour it seems.
And you must invest in the books & tools for the work, too.
Sometines it is wiser to farm out the work.

------------------
Chat Soon,
KED85
Karl
1985 Firebird 2.8 to 3.4 swap project for Smog Happy LA, CA

 

So lots a problems if i want 2 change the tranny down the road eh?

 

I think you should find a nice V8 model. Look for a TPI engine. Try to avoid the TBI because the aftermarket for speed parts is poor, and try to avoid the carb engines because of gas mileage. If you do get a carb engine make sure its the HO.

 

Now, I don't want anybody to get me wrong, but I disagree with a lot of this post. First of all, the V8s are not that much heavier, which means a balance fore/aft of like 58/42 instead of ~ 56/44 for the V6 and there is no time when you will benefit from having less torque. I have gotten out of a few jams just because I had a car that was capable of pulling a big load. If you were impressed by the power of a V6, you will be even more so with a v8 and you will lose about 6 or so MPG max... Now I would have loved to get an HO V8 myself, but I have found the LG4 (LO) to be quite adequate for jetting around town and the nice rumble it emmits. It really matters how much you have to spend and how good of a deal you can get. Now if you can get a V6 in good condition for say 400 dollars more than a V8 in good condition, you're going to be spending about the same in the short term for either since the extra 400 you save on the car can then be spent on gas... if gas money isn't an object, I would say just look for an 8 and you will have an easier time with performance mods and all that... If you want some numbers, I purchased the following for $1300: 1984 Pontiac Firebird, LG4 V8 T5 tranny, 140k. The engine was freshened up with a partial rebuild, new carb, manifold, shocks, brakes and a few little things. I had to buy two rear tires and it doesn't burn any oil or leak anything... and I manage 21 MPG Hwy 18 MPG City. oh and one other thing, it's got a very solid frame and the body has two rust holes about the size of a silver dollar.

Guess I should shut up now... my general advice for buying a car would be: good frame, mostly entact body, no leaking or burning oil.

 

No one's mention it yet so here goes...

There are MANY special edition cars in the thirdgen lineup including (but not limited to) the GTA Trans Ams, The Turbo Trans Am, SE Firebirds, Recaro Edition Firebirds/trans ams/camaros, Z28s, and the IROCs.

As far as the mileage is concerned, I got about 21 tops from my v6 firebird. I'm getting about 18 from my tpi 350 GTA. If you like the GTAs or IROCs and would like a camaro or firebird because you could make it compete with one of these cars, save yourself some time and money and just WAIT and find that creampuff perfect hi performance f-body that only dreams are made of.

If you are looking at a car...do some of these:

Listen for rattles...these can be indicative of many parts of the car getting ready to go bad. If the car rides smooth and only the occasional rattle, it's good. If it sounds like the frame is twisting and making noise, it probably is...stay away.

Ask the owner what kind of oil/gas he runs in the car and how often he changes fluids.

Did the previous owner smoke in the vehicle? Is there evidence of it?

Do a carfax report. Search for GMtech in the archives and his sig has a link to a free carfax report. This will reveal any strange things that happenned in the previous life of the car.

Do a complete visual check of the undercarriage of the car for rust. This includes in obscure places you would think rust couldn't get to.

Check the wiring in the engine compartment for frays and burn marks.

All of this is advice and if you are really set on getting the car, just factor these as repair costs and NOT reasons to pass up the thirdgen.

 

SEE BELOW
------------------
85 Firebird. $150.00
2.8 Auto.
Blown Head Gasket.
turbo has arrived ,

[This message has been edited by Project: 85 2.8 bird (edited September 08, 2001).]

 

How is the car going to driven? Primary or fun car? having two other vehicles (3 if i can ever sell that dam t-bird)I have the luxury to experiment with "daddy's toy"
If primary, stick with the complete tune up home made ram air/cai, maybe an ignition box if budget permits. Once the engine is good, look towards chassis improvements, especially subframe connectors.
If fun car, well have fun. get the fibaerglass frontend from jc whitney, make functional, splurge on full roller rockers, get the aluminum block from GM, gett the roller cam kit, etc......

------------------
85 Firebird. $150.00
2.8 Auto.
Blown Head Gasket.
turbo has arrived,

 

Ok things to check out. This is the biggest thing and it was not mentioned. CHECK THE SUB FRAMES. IF THEY EVEN HAVE RUST PASS. THEY'LL BREAK AND YOU HAVE NO CAR. You want to get the car to a lift if at all possible. Look over the bottom end. Looking for heavily oilly, dirty spots, oil leaks, worn parts(bushings, rod ends) look a the brakes front and rear. Look at the condition on the front steering components(have they been greased? are the boots good? are they bone dry and falling apart?) Oil can be a hard thing to read. Look at the overall condition of the engine bay. If someone takes care of there car wil clean the engine bay at some point. Look behind the intake and look for oil there(famous for leaking at the distrib) Lok at the tires(another good sign if the car is being cared for) Interior is not a biggie you can get everything still. feel around the flor boards behind the front seats and the inside body. If the carpet moves in it has a rust spot(No go) Look under the side skirts(If so equipped) rust? new doors!, look under the sill on the door frames, Rust? car'll fold in half!. Check the shocks struts springs. Look for cracked glass. And make sure EVERYTHING WORKS AS IT SHOULD. ELECTRICALLY ESPECIALLY!. This is a good starting point. I thik I covered most of the biggie bases.

 

WOW!!!U GUYS ARE SOOOOOOO MUCH HELP. ThirdGen is AWESOME!!! Well i checked out 2 more cars i thought i found a good deal with the last one it was a 85 firebird and i checked the steering components they are in terrible condition is it expensive 2 fix that??? Also i have a couple questions about u're answers.

1.What are the side skirts?
2.What are the Shock Struts
3.What's a carfax report?
4.Manifold?
5.TPI AND TBI???

Thanx and try not 2 go nutz i'm learnin hehe.
Oh and if u guyz r wonderin my price range is like 0-i dunno tops 3 grand i guess
and i'm in Canada so price a bit diff

 

If ya just want to go stock, score a car like I did, with the $150 price, $150 for a dynamax exhaust (optional), about $200 for gaskets, hood/hinge supports, fiberglass repair kit (for that hole hiding in the spare tire compartment), that aint much for a slick looking ride. The hard part is finding the right car.

He means check the shocks, struts, springs.
TBI= Throttle Bodie Injection, bastard child when a card got knocked up by a fuel injector.
TPI= Tuned Port Injection, true fuel injection, also :
MPI/MPFI=Multi Port Fuel Injection, see above
As for carfax, go to clarkhoward.com, he talked about it the other day, and how only certain cars with certain circumstances will be on it, like if the car ever had a salvage title.

------------------
85 Firebird. $150.00
2.8 Auto.
Blown Head Gasket.
turbo has arrived,

 

U actually found a workin car that wuzn't all rusted for 150 bucks???

 

I paid $300 for mine with a good tranny (for about 1 1/2 years. Then I put in the 3.4 engine!).
Had body damage, but good interior. That's what a pick your part is for!!!
FOR YOU, BODY IS NUMBER ONE GOAL!
Especially in the rust area of Canada.
Rest is easy to work with!

------------------
Chat Soon,
KED85
Karl
1985 Firebird 2.8 to 3.4 swap project for Smog Happy LA, CA

 

yes $150, how did i get it so cheap? the guy went out & got a 2001 formula....which would you REALLy rather have


------------------
85 Firebird. $150.00
2.8 Auto.
Blown Head Gasket.
turbo has arrived,

 

I kinda got a mixed message there it doesn't matter if the body is damaged or it does?

 

IMHO body damage is not a big deal, because it is something that can be fixed... Now you have to realize the difference between the body and the frame. If the frame is damaged, that is pretty much the end of that car, because repair will entail either straightening or replacing the frame, which will entail a hefty bill and a lot of time to invest. If you can find a good frame, you're most of the way to a reliable car... Getting an engine that has not been abused is then next thing to look for. Then the tranny... clutch replacement is relatively cheap compared to the other three things I just mentioned... you're probably talking at least $1000 for engine, frame and tranny work... I'm just going by what shops charge.

 

I got my ride with body damage and an ok engine, but good tranny & interior.
IN CANADA,
I'd pay attention to the needs of a rust free, straight body.
In my 1985 Firebird example, I can run to pick your parts and get rust free straight stuff.
IN Canada, that option may not exist. BUT they have tons of engines, in great shape as the body dies/rusts, first.
IN CA, we are lucky for that fact, rust free, high milage cars, exist here, alot.

------------------
Chat Soon,
KED85
Karl
1985 Firebird 2.8 to 3.4 swap project for Smog Happy LA, CA

 

I'm just wondering 2 things how do u check the frame??? and wutz IMHO
Thanx again for u're patience

 

IMHO = basically In my opinion. How to check the frames. Well it may sound childish but you know whewre the LCA's(lower control arm connect to the car(in the front). Theres 2 of the 4 cars Sub frames. Obviously the rear LCA's are connected to the rear subs. The problem with the subframe design is it can rot out really quickly.

IF YOU SEE ANY RUST ON OR EVEN REMOTELY NEAR THESE FRAMES DO NOT BUY THE CAR!. You also want to check under the floor boards/seat pans. Those parts make up the rest of the "frame"

 

I'm still wondering about the whole Automatic or Standard question??? What do u guyz think??? Is it something that should wait or good 2 start with??? I know its hard and can be annoyin. I used 2 dirtbike will that help cuz of all the gear changing.

 

learning to drive stick on a car is like riding a bike, you'll never forget once you learn. after that, it'll be all natural to you and you wont even notice you're driving a manual.

------------------
85 2.8L Sport Coupe 5-speed.
Mods: Hpertech chip and powerstat, MSD 6A-L, Crane fireball coil, Accel Cap and Rotor, Dynomax hi-flow cat and catback system with a dynomax magnum race bullet muffler on the i-pipe, K&N filterchargers, Gutted Air Boxes, 8mm Wires, Eibach Sportlines and Tokiko springs/shocks setup, Global west sub frames, Suspension techniqs front and rear sway bars, and good ole 88 IROC wheels with Kumo Ecstas on em!
"It's not the ricers, it's those damn V8's!"

Wins: 2000 V6 Accord, 69 302 Mustang, 2000 Auto VR6 Jetta, 89 Toyota MR2, 90 Civic Si, 76 350 Camaro, 2000 3.8 5-speed Camaro, ~68 Chevelle 350, 92 CRX Si.

 

If you are a good shifter, you're smooth as melted butter.
IF you have lots of traffic in your area, be aware, a clutch job may be in the future. Added cost.
Flip it around, if it's a poor shifting automatic, there's a rebuilt tranny in your future, too!
I just paid $650 for my tranny rebuild.
Ya get the subject of your desire (A CAR!!) and put it up on a lift and you pay for that service (about $40). Maybe the seller will split the cots with ya. Look all over the underside.

------------------
Chat Soon,
KED85
Karl
1985 Firebird 2.8 to 3.4 swap project for Smog Happy LA, CA

 

Actually, I'd look for a car with a good body and NO RUST. I hate doing body work; I'd rather do engine work all day. Rust is the big problem; it never goes away. I thought I killed all the rust on my right rear 1/4 when I did all the bodywork on the car- it's back, and my rear 1/4 is falling apart; it looks like crap. I need to weld a new one in there one of these days...

As to V6's... 82-84 2.8's were carb'd. '85 was the first year of the mulitport fuel injection, which stayed right up to '92. '82-'86 uses multiple v-belts; '87-92 uses one serpentine belt. (Serpentine belt = can add power pulleys later.) '85-'89 2.8's used the "Mass Air Flow" method of measuring air flow. This uses a somewhat expensive sensor, which measures air flow directly. '90-'92 3.1 v6's use a "Speed Density" method; which calculates air flow from tables inside the computer chip, and engine variables (such as vacuum). The advantage is that it's not as "delicate" as the MAF-sensor method... plus, you won't have a MAF sensor to replace ($100 parts store, $300 dealer).

82-mid 85 2.8's had mixed "main" bearing sizes; the middles were small, the ends were large. mid-85 2.8's started using the large journal crank, which used the same larger bearings in all four positions. This means the crankshaft is stronger.

1987-up 2.8/3.1s use an internally balanced crankshaft. This means you can replace the flywheel without worrying about throwing off the balance of the engine.

1989-up 2.8/3.1's received lighter, forged pistons. Apparently the lighter piston allowed for the engine to rev faster (less rotating mass), and the pistons were forged (as opposed to cast) to make them stronger (since they were lighter). This might equate to a 1989-up engine taking a nitrous shot better, since it has forged pistons. Cast piston = metal poured into a mold. Forged piston = chunk of metal, cut down into a piston.

As to automatic versions, the 82-83 got the three speed "metric" TH-200C - not a good trans at all. 1984 started the 4-speed automatic, the 700r4, which all 84-92 F-bodies (v6 or v8) used as the automatic trans. Problem was, GM didn't get the trans design quite right in 1984. They improved a bit on it in '86. They improved the MOST on it in '87, to extend the tranny's life. Then they improved on it again in later years. What's this mean? An automatic tranny'd f-body (whether V6 or V8) will have the strongest trans from '87-up.

Axle ratios; '85-'89 2.8's with automagic trannies got a lower (numerically higher) 3.42:1 rear gear. 90-92 3.1's w/automatic's got the higher 3.23:1 rear. This means an '85-'89 2.8 will be faster "off the line" than a 3.23:1 geared 3.1. I'm not sure on the specs for the manual-trannied' cars. '82-'84 also got a higher gear, probably the 3.23 also. Higher gear = numerically lower = higher top speed = longer 0-60 time. Lower gear = numerically Higher = lower top speed = faster 0-60 time. Keep in mind axles can be switched; I recently put a 3.73/posi/disc rear axle (from an '84 trans am) into my '86 2.8 Firebird.

All body panels fit between the years. You "can" mix body panels between Firebird & Camaro, but you'll get laughed at, unless it's a door: You can put an '84 Firebird door onto an '89 Camaro. Otherwise, the fenders are different, bumpers are different, hoods are different, etc. But, you -can- put a '92 Firebird bumper onto an '86 Firebird.

New carpet is available from http://www.a1auto.com for $120... and it's the ACC carpet- that's a GM Authorized Reproduction company. Don't let a great car with bad carpet stop you from buying it- get $100 off, then buy the carpet.


------------------
-Tom P (Hot rodded 1986 Firebird 2.8l)

 

So from the last post i c that the 87-89 models are the best??? Am i correct? But is the price range very different between likea 84 and a 87???

 

Attention Tom P u seem 2 know quiet a bit about wut model has wut etc. So i wuz wondering would u mostly recommmend wut years model??? from wut i gather the 87's-89's where the best that will actually be at a cheap price??? How much worse is the 83 model???

 

I would personally go for an 85 or newer Camaro, but it's very doubtful that you are going to find a $100-300 bargain like our southern friends do. Certainly not through the Buy & Sell.
You can always scour the Lower-Mainland scoping out cars in peoples yards, then if you see an F-body with out plates or that has been parked for awhile(months) knock on their door & ask if they want to sell; I know someone who has made a business out of doing just that.

------------------
Black 87 2.8l Camaro

[/URL]http://photos.yahoo.com/bc/z2point8l?d&.flabel=fld1&.src=ph[/URL]

Aka Z2point8



[This message has been edited by CanadianCamaro (edited September 12, 2001).]

 

I've repeated in this post i'm not interested in a camaro its nothing personal i just don't like camaro's because of memories and experiences with these cars and i am obsessed with firebirds. So now can u guyz maybe help me out with firebird tips????Thanx

 

Hi, I hardly know anything about making my 90 camarors 6 run( I do try!!) but, I can help you out with the interior part. So if you want please just ask. camaro1962@hotmail.com
elizabethterral@webtv.com

You're just gonna LOVE your car!!!!!!

 

sorry it's: camaro1952hotmail.com
I guess it's too early for me.

 

Yep, 87-89 seem to be the hot ticket (rear gears, serp. belt drive, internally balance, forged pistons on '89); but there was a message a week ago talking about bad injectors in the '89's. I'd definately put the 85-up's over an 82-84 carb'd model, based on the transmission alone.

When I get around to rebuilding a 2.8, it will be at "earliest" an '87 block.


------------------
-Tom P (Hot rodded 1986 Firebird 2.8l)

 

Hey car guy, I know we're not supposed to do for sale stuff on this board, but I noticed you're from North Van, and I've got a red Firebird for sale. '87 2.8 V6 auto, T-tops, rebuilt engine and transmission, GTA seats, lots of other parts. I'm asking $3500.

There's a pic at http://www.dowco.com/~alexh/car.jpg.

It really depends on how much you have to spend on the car, but even if you don't buy mine , try to find an 87 or newer.

Edit: Send me an email at alexh@dowco.com for all the details (there's lots to hear about) or call me at 224-1048.



[This message has been edited by AlexJH (edited September 13, 2001).]

 

Sorry dude the link didn't work. N e ways i don't have close 2 enough money yet i'm doin this post cuz i'm just getting into cars and i'm learning i won't be buyin the car for at least a couple months could be 2 months could be 4 but if u still have it then i'm sure as hell checkin it out. But i dunno about a 2.8. U wouldn't rip of a fellow Third Gen member right lol?

 

What is it about the 82-84 trannies? Should I be concerned about the quality of my tranny (see sig) It's got 140k on it and doesn't grind or drop gears ever... has a small drip I gotta fix but nothing else (1 drop every other week)

As it pertains to this post I wouldn't pass up the opportunity for a t-topped car even if it's a six... enough power and the girls really dig t-tops... next time I have some money I'm gettin t-tops... Depends how nice this car runs with a new carb, maybe I'll cut off the top and swap LOL...


------------------
1984 Firebird - Daily driver, 305 LG4, T5 - Hurst short shifter, Edelbrock 600 CFM Performer Carb - Edelbrock Pro-Flow air filter, gutted cat, IROC 16x8 Wheels, Goodyear P215/60/R16, AIWA bargain basement (from Sears of course) CD player, Fuzzy dice, Eight-ball shift ****
Check out my ride here $1600!! Bye Bye on board computer!

First Kill: 2002 Subaru Impreza WRX Wagon (1 person vs me with 2 passengers)

 

Hey Alex can u send me some pics??? And me and my friend Kevin are interested in a Test Drive can that be arranged we're both in North Van.Kevin's also on this board 85firebird_nos

 

CPC, sorry to confuse; I'm talking 100% about the 82-83 TH200C (3 speed automatic trans) and the '84 TH700r4 (4 speed automatic). The TH200C just plain sucked (that's why it's gone!), and the '84 700r4 was just designed. GM's fixed all the old problems of the original 700r4 by now.

For automatic trannies:

1982 V8, 82-83 V6 = 200C
1983 V8 = 700r4
1984-up V8/V6 = 700r4


------------------
-Tom P (Hot rodded 1986 Firebird 2.8l)