okay okay i know this has been covered dozens of times. but it seems like some of the threads i read on about the topic before have been buried..
but onto my case.
iv got a 87 camaro with a blew head gasket and the head is warped all to f*ck, well i figured i could take advantage of this mishap and go on ahead and do the 3.4 swap. the motor i plan to drop in in a few weeks is out of a 94 camaro i already have the complete engine & SFI intake manifold with a chopped harness. iv got about a grand to do this with(after i got the engine) so i want to keep it cheap but still be very dependable.

i plan to just use my mpfi intake manifold and just have it ported for some better flow. i just needed a few pointers on what upper intake gasket kit to get, what parts to save from my block, ect..

 

Use the 2.8 intake gaskets, with the 2.8 intake manifold. Heads are identical. They're not buried, they're stickied in the V6 section. Besides, this is more of a replacement than a swap. My 2.8 to LSx is a swap.

 

i actually found a few good threads waiting on a post. this is my first actual motor swap/replacement on my own. but what all do i need off my block to go back onto the 3.4? if im not mistaken the oil pumps flow in different directions

 

u need the oil pan, front timing cover, distributor, and intake off ur original engine

the oil pumps are the same , everything internall on the engines is identical, the 3,4 is nothing more then a bored out 3.1 , a 3.1 is a stroked 2.8


u dont HAVE to use the original timing cover or oilpan but if u dont ur y pipe may hit or be really close to the 3.4 oil pan


the oil pan on the 3.4 is a lil deeper ahead of the sump , but the sump is the same depth

 

thanks dude.

project89 iv read a few of your threads and alot of your post, seems like you really know your v6 'maro stuff. i love the fact that your's has a turbo. eventually i plan to do the almost the same set up as you, but no two projects are the same. im going tear off the front clip next weekend since i dont work and i plan to have the 3.4 block in after the first of august.

 

project89, if you dont mind me asking, what kind of crank and rod do you use in your 3.1?

 

stock and stock , both the cranka nd rods are pretty stout pieces.
though in my current 3.1 my crank and rotating assembly was considerably machined and lightend for the amount of rpms i turn with that engine

but bone stock they will withstand 7,000 rpms

 

How many rpms to you take yours to? I wanted to build a fully forged 3.4 with about 15 lbs of boost and have good enough internals to handle about 8k. I usually shift @ about 3-4k, but i wind'em out occasionally

 

i normally shift around 7,400, ive had the engine to 8,500 by accident a few times

u dont need to build a forged engine for boost , i have cast pistons in mine and so does fasteddi

 

what type of rings are yall using?
so yall are basicly turboing a factory engine with just head work?
iron heads or alum?

 

factory engines with the top ring gap opened up a lil bit , a delta 260 cam , and head/intake work, iron heads

i use moly rings in mine but everyone else is using the stock or stock replacement rings

 

I'm kinda dumb; but, seems like AHELLUVALOT of trouble and expense to go to, and still only have a 6-cyl at the end. But what do I know.

 

what do you mean by opening the top ring gap? and i was looking into a crane cam, grind # h-272-2 part # 253941. could you give me your thoughts on that one? and whats the deal with going from 1.5 rockers to 1.6, less chance of valve float and tighter seal at the valve?

 

if you know what to mod, and if done right, these v6's can eat a built 305 or a mild 350. and still get good fuel mileage instead of 12-15mpg we get 25-30mpg

 

I think you're better off in the V6 forum.

 

You also need a flywheel... Your 2.8 is (or should be as the switch was made in 88) externally balanced... 3.4 is internally balanced. If you don't replace the wheel, you're going to shake the main bearings out of the engine. If your current flywheel has a big weight on the engine side, you need to replace it.

 

why would i need to put a flywheel on it? the engine is out of a 5spd car so it should be fine right?

 

Again, EXternal versus INternal balance on the crank... Wrong wheel equals bad vibrations.

 

i get that much, but if the 3.4 block is internally balanced and is a perfectly running engine in the 94 camaro why would it need re-balanced to go into my 87?

 

I think he's saying you can't run a weighted 2.8 flywheel. If the 3.4 comes with a flywheel, great, it will be fine.

 

Exactly. If it's a straight manual to manual swap and the 3.4 already has the proper wheel on it, you don't need another. If the 3.4 donor is an auto, you need to get a flywheel IF the 2.8 wheel has the weight on it.

 

You had me confused for a minute there lol. But im gonna take alot of photos & notes when i start this. I'm excited to get my 'maro back on the road.

 

I've taken mine to 7k a few times. I don't like to but they can handle a hellof a pounding IMO.

Running a wider top ring gap on a turboed car will stop you from running into this issue like I had last fall on 15psi of boost(it was a weak turbo so that's why the boost was so high along with a slipping tranny)

IMO go with a delta cam for a camshaft. Me and some others including project89 run them and there good cams for a good price.

 

Am i looking at the crack below the compression ring?

 

And can you go a little more in depth to opening up ring gap?

 

Ok your top ring gap should be around .025-.030. When I removed my broken ring and ringland I checked the top ring gap on the other intact pistons. It was about .013ish. Which is way to tight for a forced induction engine.

The crack you see is the ringlands on the piston. The ring cracked either from detination or just too much boost that broke the brittle ring. Having a tight ring gap causes there to be a bit of pressure on the ring to cylinder wall. This can cause some major issues when running up a lot of boost in those cylinders.

I was told to open my gap up when I assembled another stock engine together last fall after the cracked ring engine. I gapped .025 for all the top rings. I have had no issues yet. Havent had excessive blow by for a 100k mile engine put though hellll and back..lol Although last year I ran more boost then id like to admit to. This year im at a steady 12-13psi and happy as ever thanks to a much better turbo for my application.

Heres the chunk of the ring missing.

 

Oh damn lol what do you do to open the gap if its too tight, grind the end of the ring off just a tad bit at a time till its close to comfort? Would moly rings make less of achance of that happening?

 

Moly rings could help. I stuck with all stock stuff on my build. Mainly because it was cheep and I had double of everything from my other engine. So I had some parts to play with incase I messed up. But I just shaved off the rings using one of these puppies. Figured id probly have to do it again someday..lol

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/pr...FUJqMgodtwgAWQ

Grind it down a little at a time and use a feeler guage to measure the results.

My guts in my car are all stock else then the camshaft which is a delta 260 grind cam. Car made high 12 second passes the other weekend on 12.5psi of boost. So you can see what the stock stuff can take if you have it tuned good.

 

moly rinsg are better for the given application but require a specific cyl wall finish when honing for the rings to seat properly

if u remove the rings and put new ones in the old pistons u need to hone the cyls to rough the walls up or the rings will never seat

.025-.028 is all u need to open the ring gap upto

if u are very very carefull u can remove the stock rings open the gap and resinstall them onto the piston without having to hone the cyl walls . but u have to be very careful about removing and reinstalling the rings

 

awhhh i understand what yall are getting at now lol.
i believe im going to wait till tax time, rebuild the engine and follow project89's junkyard build. fasteddi & project89, do yall know anyone with a good turbo for my application for sale? id like to stay around a 11-13psi @ max boost at say 3250rpm.

thanks you two, the information iv got from yall is just crazy.
i just want to keep asking questions and learn more and more.
and again, thank you two.

 

Get a godspeed gt3582 off ebay if you can. Its 260ish bucks and its what I run and I think dave has 2 of them on his iroc? There good turbos for a V6 thirdgen.

Don't worrie about the questions. Ask away and well help as much as we can.

 

thanks man. I get paid every other wed. so im gonna start piecing together everything I need for this. what would be the best size exhaust pipe to use for my app. with the godspeed gt3582 turbo? and I without a doubt know I can put it all together, iv got a wire welder. but im completely in the dark when it comes to tuning it all and making it work together to produce the most power. is there anyone that could program a computer for my application and sell it to me?(since yall have been there and done this)

 

if u swap the ecm form the maf system to the speed density system 90-92 v6 harness and computer fast can prolly burn u a new tune or the same tune he is running which would knock about 5 seconds off ur cars 1/4 mile


u would have to get the same injectors he has and since ur swaping to a 3.4 he would have to add just a touch of fuel to the tune to comensate for the slightly larger engine


i run a megasquirt ecm on all my cars so i dont have the stuff needed to tune the stock ecms

and im currently using ebay gt3076's on my iroc but i have a set of ebay godspeed gt3582's siting here to waiting to be put on it still

 

if u want to make a ton of power go right for the ebay 66mm turbo they are about 100 bucks more then the gt3582 though

 

would you be willing to sell me one of your turbos?
and how hard would it be to swap to speed density, ecm, and harness?
iv taken electrician classes, but wiring a house is nothing like wiring a car lol.

 

i could sell u one of my gt3076's but u dont want those it would take 18 psi to make the same power of the gt3582 at 9/10 psi


the ecm and harness swap should be pretty striaght foward but u would have to ask somone who has done it already to know for sure

fast may be able to tune the maf system, and i forgot member blc85 has been working alot with the maf system + turbo u may want to contact him

 

ahh okay, i may just stick with the gt3582 then lol.
whats really involved with swapping a ecm? and alright ill send him a pm & see what he has to say.

 

i tried to look him up but couldnt find him?

 

cause i spelt his username wrong

its bl85c

https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/diy-...take-look.html

 

ahhhhh lol thanks. ill let you know what he tells me

 

You could probably also just repin the ECM connectors for a 7730 and wire in a MAP sensor pigtail. I repinned a 93 2.5 Sonoma harness a few weeks ago for a 7730 using the gmtuners.com Fiero guide and with a few tweaks it was pretty simple. Just get the pinouts for both ECMs.

 

I can tune a Speed density turbo easily and stand behind the tune but maf is a PITA IMO.

 

what would it take to swap to speed density?
if it would be a better idea id do what ever it takes to make it work. considerind the entire turbo idea on our 6's is making it work lol

 

You have to repin the ecm for a 7730 ecm and change arround a few sensors. Its a cheeper route then a megasquirt or a stand alone system like that but its not to difficult. It can be done and if you can wire up stuff youll have no problem as many thirdgen MAF cars have been swaped to speed density.

 

What would be the best year/model vehicle would out be to pull the ECM i need out of, or does it matter as long as its a 7730 ECM? Sorry for the delay on my post, night shift has been killing me.

 

7730 ecm would work out of any car IIRC. Look that up though to make sure. I got a spare one for 40 bucks a while back. If you really want on phenioxfirebird has on he'll never use. I can contact him since hes my friend and lives close. He was went carbed on his car.

 

That'd be awesome, how much you think he would want for it?

 

Oh and i forgot to ask, would it be wise to go on ahead and get 19lb injectors for a ranger and put in when i do the block swap? I was thinking I'd probably need slightly bigger injectors for the bigger engine.

 

yea 19lbs would be better for the 3.4L. If you ever plan to go turbo though youll need alot more injector then that. 32lbs or higher.

30-50 bucks probly for the ecm. Ill text him today and ask him.

 

I know when i turbo it ill need alotttt more injector lol. But alright awesome. Could you also put a good tune in it for me?