willexoIX

Very true, I read that you HAVE to unplug the coil when loading code, I bet thats exactly what did it too.

Will update as soon as the mail gets here.

Funny thing is is I think it didnt fry until i tried to load the tune and thats what fried it, lol.

willexoIX

ok, new processor is in and ms1extra is loaded. I loaded the base tune file. I have the same AEM UEGO, would that be linear or non linear? Set on P0.

And which code varient? I dont see ms1extra, only ms1?

project89

iTrader: (1)

0-5v 10-20 afr just select whatever matches that, i know why u dont see ms extra let me get u a link

project89

iTrader: (1)

this link doesnt include the html manuals
http://www.msextra.com/doc/ms1extra/..._Installer.exe

this link is the same but includes the manual u can read in ur webbrowser
http://www.msextra.com/doc/ms1extra/..._Installer.exe


u prolly installed the older version of megatune withotu the ms1 extra code

willexoIX

I am editing the settings.ini file correct?
unless I am to set MSnS extra, instead of looking for ms1extra?

willexoIX

That one you linked is the same exact copy I installed.

project89

iTrader: (1)

yes and yes , im heading out on lunch break ill be back in a bit if u run into issues just post up ill answer them when i get back

willexoIX

LOL, where the heck did it put the datalog?

auditlog has this at the bottom
C:\Documents and Settings\Will\Desktop\Camaro tune files\First tune\williebase.msq:Open
WARNING(04): Constant "egoTemp1" units mismatch, "C" in msq, expected "F" from ini.
WARNING(04): Constant "fastIdleT1" units mismatch, "C" in msq, expected "F" from ini.
WARNING(04): Constant "egoTemp2" units mismatch, "C" in msq, expected "F" from ini.
WARNING(04): Constant "fastIdleT2" units mismatch, "C" in msq, expected "F" from ini.
WARNING(04): Constant "IdleAdvCLT" units mismatch, "C" in msq, expected "F" from ini.
WARNING(04): Constant "BoostMaxKn" units mismatch, "PSI" in msq, expected "KPa" from ini.
WARNING(04): Constant "IATBoost" units mismatch, "C" in msq, expected "F" from ini.
WARNING(04): Constant "IATBoostSt" units mismatch, "C" in msq, expected "F" from ini.
WARNING(04): Constant "IgAdvDeg" units mismatch, "C" in msq, expected "F" from ini.
WARNING(04): Constant "IgAdvTemp" units mismatch, "C" in msq, expected "F" from ini.
WARNING(04): Constant "IgRetDeg" units mismatch, "C" in msq, expected "F" from ini.
WARNING(04): Constant "IgRetTemp" units mismatch, "C" in msq, expected "F" from ini.
WARNING(04): Constant "KnockBoost" units mismatch, "PSI" in msq, expected "KPa" from ini.
WARNING(04): Constant "NosClt" units mismatch, "C" in msq, expected "F" from ini.
WARNING(04): Constant "OvrBKpa" units mismatch, "PSI" in msq, expected "KPa" from ini.
WARNING(04): Constant "OvrRunClt" units mismatch, "C" in msq, expected "F" from ini.
WARNING(04): Constant "StartWIKPa" units mismatch, "PSI" in msq, expected "KPa" from ini.
WARNING(04): Constant "WaterIIat" units mismatch, "C" in msq, expected "F" from ini.
WARNING(04): Constant "efanofftemp" units mismatch, "C" in msq, expected "F" from ini.
WARNING(04): Constant "efanontemp" units mismatch, "C" in msq, expected "F" from ini.
WARNING(04): Constant "ASEFixTemp" units mismatch, "C" in msq, expected "F" from ini.
WARNING(04): Constant "afrBins1" units mismatch, "AFR" in msq, expected "Volts" from ini.
WARNING(04): Constant "afrBins2" units mismatch, "AFR" in msq, expected "Volts" from ini.
WARNING(04): Constant "IATCTemp" units mismatch, "C" in msq, expected "F" from ini.
WARNING(04): Constant "fastIdleTemp" units mismatch, "C" in msq, expected "F" from ini.
WARNING(04): Constant "slowIdleTemp" units mismatch, "C" in msq, expected "F" from ini.

project89

iTrader: (1)

oh crap i setup the msq wrong basically its telling u the units of measurement i.e afr vs lamda and psi versus kpa dont match
and also celcius versus farenhieght
ill fix it later when i get back

did it run?none of those are a serious error at this point but still need to be fixed


datalog should be in my documents , program data megatuine etc etc
u can also set it to save the datalog to a specific place


ok on my way out the door now be back in around 45 mins

willexoIX

crap, I forgot to check if pin6 had 5v. when it was just sitting with the key on, not running it only had .14v on it.

It started, and it ran quite a bit rough, but I was able to take it down the street and log. When I gradually went closer to half pedal, it went from straight 10.0 to around 12.5 AFR on the gauge.

soon as I find the datalog, Ill post it up.

willexoIX

Oh and about halfway through the ride, the CONNECTED on the bottom right corner went to RESET 1.

But hey, ITS ALIVE!!!!!!
Man it felt like I put a cam in it! LOL

willexoIX

lol, took some searching but I found it, and here it is

willexoIX

I went out and started it to check pin 6, and it shows 4.89v while running. Is that close enough to the 5v the MS needs to take over timing control?

edit
When I load the next tune, I will go take it a couple miles down the road to get some gas.

project89

iTrader: (1)

sorry man i got tied up woth work stuff , let me grab my other laptop ill check out the dl and fix the base tune file so it doesnt give errors
4.89V is enough for the bypass

project89

iTrader: (1)

something is wrong with ur map sensor , or u have a massive vacum leak

at idle ur map is reading 100 kpa which is 0 vacum , when u rev the motor it drops to around 60 kpa its like reading backwards . u need to fix that befoere going any further


other then that i see the car fired up first shot on the data log

map should read around 40kpa at idle

project89

iTrader: (1)

pic of dl showing bad map

project89

iTrader: (1)

make sure u dont have the map sensor plugged into thte line witht hat check valve

willexoIX

I have the map sensor, well both map sensors run off of the port on the tb that also runs to the FPR. There was the line next to the FPR that I took out and used a barbed vacuum fitting to secure the vaccum line. Could it be that I teed both map sensors off the same line?

willexoIX

I removed all the other vacuum lines and plugged the extra openings. I just went out and looked and the barb fitting I put in the block on the TB is loose, Its raining now so I will put a T before the check valve on the back of the intake manifold and run it from there to see if that fixes it. Other than the map, everything else look good more or less?

willexoIX

I was nervous and excited at the same time, lol. I wanted to start it up then I started asking myself if I covered everything, hit the key and it fired right up, quicker actually than before

project89

iTrader: (1)

the mnap sensor for the gauge and ms can be on the same line , if the line was leaking that could explain the way the map sensor was reading

the car will lean out once thats fixed , the ecm thought the car was at wot when it was idling thats why it was running so rough


ive goten pretty good at tunning megasquirt systems over the years , ive done a bunch of base tunes and tuning for ppl over the years and can normally nail a base tune on the first shot

lol i was the same way the first time i fired up my car on megasquirt its such a good feeling when u hear the motor fire up that first time after the install


try to sort out that map issue right away a few ,minutes of runtime with it running that rich can fuel foul the spark plugs and then u need to replace them

willexoIX

I do have a set of stock replacements handy, when I put the 18.4lb injectors in I went to a hotter plug to compensate for the added fuel to see if that would help. I'm still running the hotter plugs ATM.

I know, i was all like WOOT WOOT when it started, lol

So it should run a bit better once thats fixed. I would take it out right now and get another datalog but its pouring out and the hood is off. It started pouring earlier and my car wasnt under the carport, I think thats the quickest I have ever moved rofl..

project89

iTrader: (1)

yeah it should run 200x better once the map sensor is working lol

willexoIX

and when I get injectors that dont pop out of the fuel rail :/

I went out to move the map line from the TB, to before the check valve, and while i was doing that I smelled gas. Alot of it. So I hit the key to prime the fuel pump and its just spraying out from the drivers side. Looks like the injectors arent the right ones. Im going to PM southbay and see what they can do for me. Maybe straight swap out for 42#s hopefully.

project89

iTrader: (1)

well there is ur massive vacum leak and a dangerous one at that, u get that fuel on a hot manifold or arcing plug wire and the car will burn to the ground in seconds

get it fixed asap

willexoIX

For now since I dont have the turbo setup yet, can you retune for 18.4# injectors? I'll put those in until I get the injectors from southbay taken care of. Just gotta wait for a response from them. I'll throw the 18.4s in tomorrow.

Will the leaking injectors cause a vacuum leak? Or were you talking about the loose barb on the TB?

For now I teed off from right before the check valve and reconnected everything.

project89

iTrader: (1)

yes the leaking injector will be an even bigger vacum leak then the hose

yeah i can retune for the smaller injectors its actually really simple

goto the engine constants page , click req fuel and change the 36 to 18.4, then click calculate and burn

willexoIX

So simple I feel stupid now, LOL. I'll change that and post up another datalog tomorrow when I take it out for gas. I don't know if it was leaking initially, but it sure is now. So thats most likely the massive vacuum leak you were talking about.

willexoIX

One more thing, since pin6 is getting about 5v, should I go ahead and connect it? I can wire the switch later. If I get bad gas, I'll just unplug the bypass connector.

project89

iTrader: (1)

yes u can

willexoIX

Just got done talking to the guys over at southbay. They said to put a secondary oring on the bottom groove of the injectors, above the bottom oring. Said it's how BMW does it.

The one injector popped out of the fuel rail, doing the second oring seems to stop that from happening. The injectors seem to be about an orings thickness shorter than the multecs that I had in. We will see what happens. Still nervous with dealing with leaking fuel by multiple ignition sources.

I will take it out shortly and see how it does, and get another datalog to post up.

willexoIX

Its idling way high, higher than I feel comfortable taking it out on. I also dont really believe what megatune is showing me RPM wise. Im including the datalog I just took, I never got it out of the driveway. Plus something is smoking up by the rad, where there arent any wires....

I'm not driving it until you post back and say its ok to. Also, the AFR in megatune doesnt match whats on my gauge, and the MS reset twice.

I know my tach is off, it says it was idling at 3000rpm in park, megatune said 1800rpm. But it didnt feel or sound like 1800 rpms.

fasteddi

iTrader: (2)

Be careful will the injectors and any leaks. If you would have a leak you would smell it before anything went bad unless you have a spark plug throwing out a spark on the block which happens but "shouldn't" if you have good plug wires. I had a nice explosion last year from my fuel line bursting and a spark getting thrown by a split wire.

Use the retaining clips, lube up the orings good and you should not have any issues as mine are shorter then multechs also. I never had a problem since I now have the retaining clips on the injectors to the rail and use both bottom o-rings. I didnt for awhile though and did have a close call after the first time out at the track last year.

I would try to help but dave knows MS pretty good. I see that datalogg and get lost as there is alot of information that im use to seeing for a 7730 tune that isnt there on your MS log.

Are you forcing the ecm in open loop constantly? And it may be a dumb question but are you retaining the IAC and if so do you have any logs of that?

willexoIX

I cant get the injectors in the rail if i put the retainers on them. And I cant put them on if the injectors are already in the rail. The bosch 3's I got dont have the groove all the way around the top like the stock ones do. The problem is that the connector wont let me turn the injector to get the ring in because it hits the fuel rail. I fiddled with it for about 30 minutes trying to find a way to get them on and I couldn't. The double orings seem to work well for now, but I will keep an eye on them.

Not sure if im in open loop or closed, and I bet I probably need to reset the idle screw because I'm not using the IAC cause its a MS1 processor. Is it possible that the IAC stepper is open further than it should be causing a throttle blade bypass and rasing the idle? Im actually using 2 of the IAC wires for my launch switch.

As for the injector that popped out, I smelled it and heard it, i didnt start the car, just primed the pump and thats how I found it.

Im looking over the datalogs in notepad, and I gather from looking that the vacuum leak I had is gone for the most part. The wideband reading could be that I have megatune set to the AEM non-linear, when It may need to be set to linear cause the AEM gauge isnt matching what MT is displaying.

I just didn't feel comfortable taking it out for a ride; the idle did drop a little when I put it in drive, but putting it in park raised it right back up. Better safe than sorry.

willexoIX

I have also put learning to tune off as well, although I do take a look at the datalogs, and when I get more than one tune, I will be comparing them to see the changes.

Dave does have lots of experience with MS, which is why I'm letting him do it because I'm not all that comfortable with tuning right now.

willexoIX

Also probably worth posting, I connected pin6 to the bypass wire, I started the car and it showed around 17* spark timing. I shut the car off and unplugged the bypass and it still showed 17*, compared to reverting to base 10* where its set.

fasteddi

iTrader: (2)

I got my 48lbs bosch 3 style from southbay and they had the groves on them for the retainers... Was a pita to get them to right but once they did they were on very solid.

Yea dave can help ya alot. Just retain as much as you can. Its not rocket science but once you get it im sure youll understand it well and have no problem getting the tuning done yourself.

Its amazing that there no provisions for it on MS? Being that your car isnt a race car and your just learning, I would think you would want the IAC because it sure can really help you troubleshoot issues with the car. And understanding the provisions that control it also help.

You will need to dial in your IAC as much as you can to get a nice smooth idle. Because if its open too much it will cause alot of problems with idle and if its closed to much it will have problems arise too. I would make sure your timing is accurate with a gun, then make sure the timing goes up and down as its suppose to with the SA tables, then start to work that IAC and get a nice clean idle. Make sure its in open loop and first get the wideband working right. Its a linear output. So make sure that coincides with what MS wants as a input.

As for the timing being off from what you have as a set angle... dave can help again as im no good as MS. But my 2 cents....I would make sure that there is no additives or anything of that nature that will raise up your timing. Make sure the timing on the dizzy is set the same as the ecm. Set the dizzy to 10 degrees with no esc connected at a warm low rpm idle. If its reving up to 2k or around there the icm will add in timing anyways so thats another reason it can be off. Get that puppy to idle at 1k or lower, set it or just check the timing and then match the ecm angle to that.

willexoIX

did your injectors have the groove all the way around or just on the sides?

Well I know I can wire up a PWM idle valve, but unless I go to an MS2 processor I'm just going to leave it be for now.

willexoIX

I had set the timing shortly before removing the original harness and putting the MS in. I set it to 10* BTDC, stock setting. First time I fired it up, I didnt have MS controlling the timing and MT showed 10.4* BTDC as base timing. Just trying to figure out how when I connected the wire for MS to take over timing, it set it to around 17*, When I unplugged the bypass wire it should have reverted to base timing but it stayed at 17*, even shutting the car off then restarting it didn't change it.

fasteddi

iTrader: (2)

Just on 2/3's of the injector. There made to be twisted on so that once there on there not coming off, unless you take them out just right. If you've never done it before its a task for a first timer. Took me about 30 minuets to get them all in the first time i did it. But just put the injector in the rail first then put the clip in and you will see the only way it can turn in. The retainer isnt a full circle its about 2/3's of the injector also.

hmm that is weird with the timing.. How high was the cars RPM when you unpluged the esc wire? If it was higher then about 1500 then the timing starts to go up because of the ignition control module in the dizzy. I found that out last summer when I couldnt get a good base reading from adding a MSD 6+ box. It has multiple sparks so you couldnt see the timing very well, then when I reved it up to make the multiple spark drop out i could see the timing perfect but it was off because of the ICM. Upwards of 10 degrees@2K rpm with the esc disconnected.

Just putting it out there be did you make sure to really tighten down that dizzy hold down good? I have seen them get turned a tad bit after tightening them down or that they were just loose enough to move a few mm.

Turning the MS off and on wont change what is either programmed in the MS or if there is a timing issue. It is either a underlying table/scalar in the program that is adding timing, a wiring problem, your dizzy is off now, or your ICM is adding timing in because of the limp home mode your ICM may sence. When you disconnect the esc the icm could see that you are in need of limp home mode, and will add specific linear timing above a certain rpm

Six_Shooter

iTrader: (2)

What's MT? Mega Tune?

Are you looking at what the screen on your laptop is telling you for timing? It will always lie to you, when the bypass is disconnected, always.

You need to grab a timing light and check it at the crank. The ECM (any ECM) will have no way to know what actual base timing is, to report through datalog.

willexoIX

Yes MT=Megatune.

I left the bypass disconnected when I first hooked up the MS as we were unsure of whether or not that pin6 would have 5v for MS to take control of the timing. On the initial startup and run, MT reported 10.4* BTDC. If it was coincidence that MT had the correct base timing then oh well. I know for a fact I set the car at 10*BTDC, and yes I made sure the dizzy bold was tight, man what a PITA that 1 bolt is. Double checked after and still at 10*.

Once I saw pin6 had the 5v on it, I went ahead and connected it when the car was off, Thats when MT showed 17* BTDC. Whatever the case may be, thats what was on the screen both times.

I switched the WBO2 to linear from non-linear in the settings.ini file.

As far as the rpms when unplugging the bypass(EST) wire, I did the same as checking the timing with the stock ECM, turn the car off, unplug the connector, start the car and check the timing. Couldnt check the rpms cause the car was off when I unplugged it.

willexoIX

Took a look over the datalog with Megalog. Looks like my idle started at around 1800rpms then gradually increased to 2000rpms both times I ran it. Guess I forgot how loud my car was with just a muffler where the cat was, lol

willexoIX

On another note. The torque converter plug, Screw it, Im not going to type it all in. Is this link correct for TCC wiring? I was thinking doing option 1 or 2.

http://www.high-impact.net/700r4lockupcontrol.htm

what are your opinions?

willexoIX

I'm just throwing Ideas here, thinking maybe the IAC is open or partly open. To compensate wouldnt you back the Idle screw out or would you somehow power the valve to close it? If you arent using the IAC that is. If the idle is that high then the spark table matches up to the rpms. Which leads me to believe that since the IAC is out of the loop, the Idle screw is too high....

Even with the increased rpms, it runs great, just wanna get that idle down before I take it out.

project89

iTrader: (1)

ok lots of posts to go threw , ill post up some quick answers real fast and then read threw all the posts


#1 u will have to adjust the throttle opening , but first remove the iac valve and pull on the pintle so its full extended then reinastall it . this will fully close off the iac circut
then u adjust the throttle plate open just the slightest amount to set the idle

#2 spark advance was showing 17* because thats what it was commanding due tot he higher rpm , what megatune shows u is the commanded spark advance if ur base timing is set with 10* with the est wire unplugged that is what it will be when u have the est wire unhooked

i have the tune setup with 10* base timing in mind so with the est connected the shown commanded timing is what u should have for actual timing


ill look at the datalog shortly and read the posts

project89

iTrader: (1)

data log checked , looks ok except for o2 and high idle , map sensor is fixed

what afr was ur gauge reading ? looks like u have the wrong setting on the gauge for the ecm output , ill check the aem manual and let u know what setting to use

to fix the idle do what i posted

fast he dont need an iac i dont use iac on any of my cars never had an issue at all , ms1 cant control a gm stepper , if it turns out he needs an iac he can hook up a different style one though

project89

iTrader: (1)

on pilsburys car once we extended the pintle on the iac we cut a piece of rubber hose and put that over the pintle and reinstalled it the rubber hose helped seal it off 100%

being u have a 2.8 u can just cap off the hose that runs down to the plenum from the iac to completely close it off , this is propably a much simpler way to do it

willexoIX

That answers that question, Which is what my thought was after a bit.

Thats pretty much what I figured after looking at the spark table and the datalog.

I'm learning, lol. I can usually figure things out on my own, just not right away. Takes a bit of thinking about how it works.

project89

iTrader: (1)

see above post for a simpler way to disable the iac on the 2.8 , sinc ei think we posted at the same time