Old school forum guys... upgrade path for stock carb early 2.8?
Thread Starter
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 3,466
Likes: 5
From: MA, USA
Car: 83 bird
Engine: 305/383
Transmission: WC T5
Axle/Gears: 3:42
Old school forum guys... upgrade path for stock carb early 2.8?
383 build is going slow and now that I have this 2.8 running so smooth I'm thinking of building it first for fun if I can locate the parts on the cheap.
I'm sure back in the day when the different versions of the 2.8 carbed motors were out there in the S10s, 3rd gens, Citations (LH7 in the X11 mmm), etc people were beefing them up to make a few more HP.
I'm also sure that most (if not all) of those performance parts that used to be available have long since been melted down to make Kias and Red Bull cans. Therefore, I'm most interested in junkyard upgrades and less interested in expensive two-piece Edelbrock intake manifolds and holy grail vintage items
Firstly... the emissions equipment. Holy Jebus. I mean, you can't even see the valve covers!
The car is emissions-exempt and will be receiving a motor swap in the future anyways... not worried in that aspect.
I've removed the AIR pump since it was noisy anyways as well as the bracketry and hose up to the valve above the passenger side valve cover. But what else can I remove? And if I do, what do I cap off?
I've read about using a same-era S10 carb as they weren't computer controlled. That sounds like something I can do... so if I do, what can be eliminated?
What about using newer heads? Anything bolt on and flow better? Gen II FWD stuff maybe or is that an entire new can of worms?
And no, I don't want MPFI! Nothing against it... just trying to go wireless here in case of that solar flare I keep hearing about...
I'm sure back in the day when the different versions of the 2.8 carbed motors were out there in the S10s, 3rd gens, Citations (LH7 in the X11 mmm), etc people were beefing them up to make a few more HP.
I'm also sure that most (if not all) of those performance parts that used to be available have long since been melted down to make Kias and Red Bull cans. Therefore, I'm most interested in junkyard upgrades and less interested in expensive two-piece Edelbrock intake manifolds and holy grail vintage items
Firstly... the emissions equipment. Holy Jebus. I mean, you can't even see the valve covers!
The car is emissions-exempt and will be receiving a motor swap in the future anyways... not worried in that aspect.
I've removed the AIR pump since it was noisy anyways as well as the bracketry and hose up to the valve above the passenger side valve cover. But what else can I remove? And if I do, what do I cap off?
I've read about using a same-era S10 carb as they weren't computer controlled. That sounds like something I can do... so if I do, what can be eliminated?
What about using newer heads? Anything bolt on and flow better? Gen II FWD stuff maybe or is that an entire new can of worms?
And no, I don't want MPFI! Nothing against it... just trying to go wireless here in case of that solar flare I keep hearing about...
Last edited by aaron7; Nov 5, 2014 at 09:24 AM.
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Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 2,435
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From: Central Florida
Car: 89 Camaro RS running MS2X
Engine: .48/.60AR T3/T4 2.8L V6
Transmission: Rebuilt 700R4 2500 stall
Axle/Gears: Next to break...
383 build is going slow and now that I have this 2.8 running so smooth I'm thinking of building it first for fun if I can locate the parts on the cheap.
I'm sure back in the day when the different versions of the 2.8 carbed motors were out there in the S10s, 3rd gens, Citations (LH7 in the X11 mmm), etc people were beefing them up to make a few more HP.
I'm also sure that most (if not all) of those performance parts that used to be available have long since been melted down to make Kias and Red Bull cans. Therefore, I'm most interested in junkyard upgrades and less interested in expensive two-piece Edelbrock intake manifolds and holy grail vintage items
Firstly... the emissions equipment. Holy Jebus. I mean, you can't even see the valve covers!
The car is emissions-exempt and will be receiving a motor swap in the future anyways... not worried in that aspect.
I've removed the AIR pump since it was noisy anyways as well as the bracketry and hose up to the valve above the passenger side valve cover. But what else can I remove? And if I do, what do I cap off?
I've read about using a same-era S10 carb as they weren't computer controlled. That sounds like something I can do... so if I do, what can be eliminated?
What about using newer heads? Anything bolt on and flow better? Gen II FWD stuff maybe or is that an entire new can of worms?
And no, I don't want MPFI! Nothing against it... just trying to go wireless here in case of that solar flare I keep hearing about...
I'm sure back in the day when the different versions of the 2.8 carbed motors were out there in the S10s, 3rd gens, Citations (LH7 in the X11 mmm), etc people were beefing them up to make a few more HP.
I'm also sure that most (if not all) of those performance parts that used to be available have long since been melted down to make Kias and Red Bull cans. Therefore, I'm most interested in junkyard upgrades and less interested in expensive two-piece Edelbrock intake manifolds and holy grail vintage items
Firstly... the emissions equipment. Holy Jebus. I mean, you can't even see the valve covers!
The car is emissions-exempt and will be receiving a motor swap in the future anyways... not worried in that aspect.
I've removed the AIR pump since it was noisy anyways as well as the bracketry and hose up to the valve above the passenger side valve cover. But what else can I remove? And if I do, what do I cap off?
I've read about using a same-era S10 carb as they weren't computer controlled. That sounds like something I can do... so if I do, what can be eliminated?
What about using newer heads? Anything bolt on and flow better? Gen II FWD stuff maybe or is that an entire new can of worms?
And no, I don't want MPFI! Nothing against it... just trying to go wireless here in case of that solar flare I keep hearing about...
Weak crank and not alot of power at all. Just dump your money in the 383.
Thread Starter
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 3,466
Likes: 5
From: MA, USA
Car: 83 bird
Engine: 305/383
Transmission: WC T5
Axle/Gears: 3:42
Re: Old school forum guys... upgrade path for stock carb early 2.8?
Except that the motor has low miles and runs fine. Not worried about cranks.
Also don't want MPFI, as I said, old school guys. You don't sound very old school.
Ideas of what I'm looking for are in my main post.
Not looking to debate if it's worth it or not to someone else!
Also don't want MPFI, as I said, old school guys. You don't sound very old school.
Ideas of what I'm looking for are in my main post.
Not looking to debate if it's worth it or not to someone else!
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From: NJ
Car: 90 formula, 89 formula 350 vert
Engine: 305, 355
Transmission: T5, t56
Axle/Gears: 3:45 9 bolt, 8.8 3:73
Re: Old school forum guys... upgrade path for stock carb early 2.8?
Low miles doesn't have much of an impact on the strength of the crank. It was a weak design. I've had an 84 berlinetta where the original crank was damaged after 70k miles. Now that that is out of the way, swap to a set of later heads and do some port work on them before installation a delta 260 cam and 1.6 rockers would be another good upgrade. While the intake is off you can port match and switch to a non cc carb such as a Holley 2brl. Swapping to an electric fan would be wise to eliminate the drag of a mechanical fan , plus it can be reused in your v8 swap. Those are the cheapest upgrades that make the most sense financially since the motor will be swapped anyway.
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From: Utah
Car: 89 RS 89 iroc 87 firebird
Engine: 3.1 Turbo/ 355 twin turbo
Transmission: a4 w/ 4500 stall/ a4 / t5
Axle/Gears: strange s60 /w 3:42's
Re: Old school forum guys... upgrade path for stock carb early 2.8?
^^ what he said
buy a set of 1.6 sbc rockers , and reuse the pivot ***** form the v6 rockers , then when u put the v8 in u can resue the rockers with the v8 piviot ***** on the v8
260 cam is cheap and one of the best upgrades
get some fuel injected heads post in the classifieds we practically give away the iron heads
and please flip the air cleaner lid back onthe right way , having it on upside down does nothing but let in extra dirt , and sucks up alot of hot underhood air
buy a set of 1.6 sbc rockers , and reuse the pivot ***** form the v6 rockers , then when u put the v8 in u can resue the rockers with the v8 piviot ***** on the v8
260 cam is cheap and one of the best upgrades
get some fuel injected heads post in the classifieds we practically give away the iron heads
and please flip the air cleaner lid back onthe right way , having it on upside down does nothing but let in extra dirt , and sucks up alot of hot underhood air
Thread Starter
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 3,466
Likes: 5
From: MA, USA
Car: 83 bird
Engine: 305/383
Transmission: WC T5
Axle/Gears: 3:42
Re: Old school forum guys... upgrade path for stock carb early 2.8?
Actually, having the air cleaner lid flipped,with a cowl hood, sucks in nothing but nice cold air. Actually tested it and saw the string get sucked into the scoop
As for later heads, what years/motors work? FWD heads the same?
That paired with the non computer controlled S10 carb to get rid of the emissions stuff is a great start!
Easy cheap junkyard finds that I can do for more fun/power, that's all I'm asking
Can you elaborate a bit on the rockers? Would I need different springs too?
I do have a TPI dual-fan setup and a Painless harness for it to free up space and power that I haven't gotten to install yet!
As for later heads, what years/motors work? FWD heads the same?
That paired with the non computer controlled S10 carb to get rid of the emissions stuff is a great start!
Easy cheap junkyard finds that I can do for more fun/power, that's all I'm asking
Can you elaborate a bit on the rockers? Would I need different springs too?
I do have a TPI dual-fan setup and a Painless harness for it to free up space and power that I haven't gotten to install yet!
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From: Utah
Car: 89 RS 89 iroc 87 firebird
Engine: 3.1 Turbo/ 355 twin turbo
Transmission: a4 w/ 4500 stall/ a4 / t5
Axle/Gears: strange s60 /w 3:42's
Re: Old school forum guys... upgrade path for stock carb early 2.8?
Actually, having the air cleaner lid flipped,with a cowl hood, sucks in nothing but nice cold air. Actually tested it and saw the string get sucked into the scoop
As for later heads, what years/motors work? FWD heads the same?
That paired with the non computer controlled S10 carb to get rid of the emissions stuff is a great start!
Easy cheap junkyard finds that I can do for more fun/power, that's all I'm asking
Can you elaborate a bit on the rockers? Would I need different springs too?
I do have a TPI dual-fan setup and a Painless harness for it to free up space and power that I haven't gotten to install yet!
As for later heads, what years/motors work? FWD heads the same?
That paired with the non computer controlled S10 carb to get rid of the emissions stuff is a great start!
Easy cheap junkyard finds that I can do for more fun/power, that's all I'm asking
Can you elaborate a bit on the rockers? Would I need different springs too?
I do have a TPI dual-fan setup and a Painless harness for it to free up space and power that I haven't gotten to install yet!
cant use the carb with fwd heads
grab heads of any 2.8/3.1/3.4 rwd fuel injected engine
withthe stock cam and 1.6 rockers the stock springs will be fine
the v6 uses the same pivot ball as the v8 the exception is the center hole were it slides over the rocker stud is 10mm for the v6 and 3/8's for the v8
but the v6/v8 rockers are identical so u just reuse the v6 pivot *****
this only works with roller tip or std rockers , doesnt work with full rollers
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Thread Starter
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 3,466
Likes: 5
From: MA, USA
Car: 83 bird
Engine: 305/383
Transmission: WC T5
Axle/Gears: 3:42
Re: Old school forum guys... upgrade path for stock carb early 2.8?
Ok cool, wasn't sure about that.
I can get V6 heads free from a guy who strips f-bodies locally. He just scraps all the V6 motors :/
What are the best, most bolt on, heads for my early motor?
I have roller tip rockers for my 383 build but not sure what size (ratio?) they are (1.5, 1.6, etc). Any way to measure or find out?
I can get V6 heads free from a guy who strips f-bodies locally. He just scraps all the V6 motors :/
What are the best, most bolt on, heads for my early motor?
I have roller tip rockers for my 383 build but not sure what size (ratio?) they are (1.5, 1.6, etc). Any way to measure or find out?
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Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 10,401
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From: Utah
Car: 89 RS 89 iroc 87 firebird
Engine: 3.1 Turbo/ 355 twin turbo
Transmission: a4 w/ 4500 stall/ a4 / t5
Axle/Gears: strange s60 /w 3:42's
Re: Old school forum guys... upgrade path for stock carb early 2.8?
Ok cool, wasn't sure about that.
I can get V6 heads free from a guy who strips f-bodies locally. He just scraps all the V6 motors :/
What are the best, most bolt on, heads for my early motor?
I have roller tip rockers for my 383 build but not sure what size (ratio?) they are (1.5, 1.6, etc). Any way to measure or find out?
I can get V6 heads free from a guy who strips f-bodies locally. He just scraps all the V6 motors :/
What are the best, most bolt on, heads for my early motor?
I have roller tip rockers for my 383 build but not sure what size (ratio?) they are (1.5, 1.6, etc). Any way to measure or find out?
all the heads are the same , just make sure they are off a fuel injected motor they have different ports and bigger valves
the rockers are probably stamped 1.5 or 1.6 on them
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 4,367
Likes: 15
Car: 1973 Datsun 240Z/ 1985 S-15 Jimmy
Engine: Turbo LX9/To be decided
Transmission: 5-speed/T-5
Axle/Gears: R200 3.90/7.5" 3.73
Re: Old school forum guys... upgrade path for stock carb early 2.8?
Except that the motor has low miles and runs fine. Not worried about cranks.
Also don't want MPFI, as I said, old school guys. You don't sound very old school.
Ideas of what I'm looking for are in my main post.
Not looking to debate if it's worth it or not to someone else!
Also don't want MPFI, as I said, old school guys. You don't sound very old school.
Ideas of what I'm looking for are in my main post.
Not looking to debate if it's worth it or not to someone else!
If you want a real boost, pull that 2.8 and drop in a 3.4 from a 1993 to 1995 F-body. At that point you would be better off not wasting the time and money since you plan on a V8 swap anyway.
If you didn't already have a V8 swap planned, there's a lot of junkyard parts from the newer FWD engines that can be made to really wake up a 660, and turbos, which is the best bang for the buck, but is not a bolt on deal.
Swapping to an electric fan would be wise to eliminate the drag of a mechanical fan , plus it can be reused in your v8 swap. Those are the cheapest upgrades that make the most sense financially since the motor will be swapped anyway.
The only thing I would do if I were in your shoes is to swap in the electric fan, and drive the 2.8 as it is until you're ready to do your swap. Anything else is just wasted time and effort in the end delaying your end goal.
FWIW, I'm a HUGE fan of the 60 degree V6, in fact I swapped a late model 660 into my Datsun recently, over any other engine, because they are a really great engine. So the advice I'm giving you is based on what your end goal is and the restrictions you are putting on this "upgrade" path for the current engine. There's only one V8 I would ever consider swapping and that's not going to happen. No, it DEFINITELY NOT an LS, I HATE those engines.
Last edited by Six_Shooter; Nov 9, 2014 at 12:01 PM.
Thread Starter
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 3,466
Likes: 5
From: MA, USA
Car: 83 bird
Engine: 305/383
Transmission: WC T5
Axle/Gears: 3:42
Re: Old school forum guys... upgrade path for stock carb early 2.8?
Reason for this thread was because I love getting my hands dirty and find working on my car relaxing.
Since I can't afford to go forward with my 383 build at the moment, but I really want to wrench on the 'bird, this was the plan.
I have access to many 3rd and 4th gen carcasses for parts; especially V6 cars. Wasn't planning on spending any money other than gaskets and hardware.
If I can pull off my emissions junk, throw on later heads & a non cc carb, and gain a few ponies all while having some fun... why not?
If the crank decides to split in two then so be it. I'll drop a later 2.8/3.1 in with my carb intake... just because
Not trying to say that you don't know what you're talking about or that it's worth it or even that I'll gain many (if any) HP!
Since I can't afford to go forward with my 383 build at the moment, but I really want to wrench on the 'bird, this was the plan.
I have access to many 3rd and 4th gen carcasses for parts; especially V6 cars. Wasn't planning on spending any money other than gaskets and hardware.
If I can pull off my emissions junk, throw on later heads & a non cc carb, and gain a few ponies all while having some fun... why not?
If the crank decides to split in two then so be it. I'll drop a later 2.8/3.1 in with my carb intake... just because
Not trying to say that you don't know what you're talking about or that it's worth it or even that I'll gain many (if any) HP!
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 4,367
Likes: 15
Car: 1973 Datsun 240Z/ 1985 S-15 Jimmy
Engine: Turbo LX9/To be decided
Transmission: 5-speed/T-5
Axle/Gears: R200 3.90/7.5" 3.73
Re: Old school forum guys... upgrade path for stock carb early 2.8?
It doesn't matter how many times you ask, state it or put it in different terms, it's never going to change the real world fact that what you want to do with the restrictions you placed on it is a complete and utter waste of time.
If you just want busy work, fine swap parts around but don't expect any gains, or at least not any appreciable gains.
The "HO"/EFI heads do have larger ports than the early carb engines, but you may already have "HO" heads, which I know for sure where on the X11, but can't recall what else they came on. There's also the possibility that your engine may have been replaced at some point and it may already have the larger valve heads. FYI, There is ZERO difference in gen1 heads after 1986, regardless of engine displacement. 2.8, 3.1 and 3.4 with iron heads all share the exact same head, where port flow and valve size is concerned. Performing a en extreme porting job on these will only get you about half way to what a gen3 head will in stock form, the iron heads were just never intended to have the words "high performance" attached to them. This means that they do not have any appreciable qualities to really gain any appreciable power increase.
The fact that you want to stay carb, and use only (junkyard) bolt on parts negates any use of later generation parts that would give you appreciable gains. The most you'll gain from any bolt on junkyard part swap is a few horsepower overall, this would be the use of "HO"/EFI heads (assuming you don't already have them) and the swap to 1992 to 1994 3100 (not 3.1) rockers, since they are stamped steel 1.6:1 rockers. Other parts will have ZERO gain, assuming that what you have is already in proper running condition.
So in the end if you simply want to twist some wrenches on your car, do it, but don't do it under the guise of gaining performance.
If you just want busy work, fine swap parts around but don't expect any gains, or at least not any appreciable gains.
The "HO"/EFI heads do have larger ports than the early carb engines, but you may already have "HO" heads, which I know for sure where on the X11, but can't recall what else they came on. There's also the possibility that your engine may have been replaced at some point and it may already have the larger valve heads. FYI, There is ZERO difference in gen1 heads after 1986, regardless of engine displacement. 2.8, 3.1 and 3.4 with iron heads all share the exact same head, where port flow and valve size is concerned. Performing a en extreme porting job on these will only get you about half way to what a gen3 head will in stock form, the iron heads were just never intended to have the words "high performance" attached to them. This means that they do not have any appreciable qualities to really gain any appreciable power increase.
The fact that you want to stay carb, and use only (junkyard) bolt on parts negates any use of later generation parts that would give you appreciable gains. The most you'll gain from any bolt on junkyard part swap is a few horsepower overall, this would be the use of "HO"/EFI heads (assuming you don't already have them) and the swap to 1992 to 1994 3100 (not 3.1) rockers, since they are stamped steel 1.6:1 rockers. Other parts will have ZERO gain, assuming that what you have is already in proper running condition.
So in the end if you simply want to twist some wrenches on your car, do it, but don't do it under the guise of gaining performance.
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Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 2,435
Likes: 1
From: Central Florida
Car: 89 Camaro RS running MS2X
Engine: .48/.60AR T3/T4 2.8L V6
Transmission: Rebuilt 700R4 2500 stall
Axle/Gears: Next to break...
It doesn't matter how many times you ask, state it or put it in different terms, it's never going to change the real world fact that what you want to do with the restrictions you placed on it is a complete and utter waste of time.
If you just want busy work, fine swap parts around but don't expect any gains, or at least not any appreciable gains.
The "HO"/EFI heads do have larger ports than the early carb engines, but you may already have "HO" heads, which I know for sure where on the X11, but can't recall what else they came on. There's also the possibility that your engine may have been replaced at some point and it may already have the larger valve heads. FYI, There is ZERO difference in gen1 heads after 1986, regardless of engine displacement. 2.8, 3.1 and 3.4 with iron heads all share the exact same head, where port flow and valve size is concerned. Performing a en extreme porting job on these will only get you about half way to what a gen3 head will in stock form, the iron heads were just never intended to have the words "high performance" attached to them. This means that they do not have any appreciable qualities to really gain any appreciable power increase.
The fact that you want to stay carb, and use only (junkyard) bolt on parts negates any use of later generation parts that would give you appreciable gains. The most you'll gain from any bolt on junkyard part swap is a few horsepower overall, this would be the use of "HO"/EFI heads (assuming you don't already have them) and the swap to 1992 to 1994 3100 (not 3.1) rockers, since they are stamped steel 1.6:1 rockers. Other parts will have ZERO gain, assuming that what you have is already in proper running condition.
So in the end if you simply want to twist some wrenches on your car, do it, but don't do it under the guise of gaining performance.
If you just want busy work, fine swap parts around but don't expect any gains, or at least not any appreciable gains.
The "HO"/EFI heads do have larger ports than the early carb engines, but you may already have "HO" heads, which I know for sure where on the X11, but can't recall what else they came on. There's also the possibility that your engine may have been replaced at some point and it may already have the larger valve heads. FYI, There is ZERO difference in gen1 heads after 1986, regardless of engine displacement. 2.8, 3.1 and 3.4 with iron heads all share the exact same head, where port flow and valve size is concerned. Performing a en extreme porting job on these will only get you about half way to what a gen3 head will in stock form, the iron heads were just never intended to have the words "high performance" attached to them. This means that they do not have any appreciable qualities to really gain any appreciable power increase.
The fact that you want to stay carb, and use only (junkyard) bolt on parts negates any use of later generation parts that would give you appreciable gains. The most you'll gain from any bolt on junkyard part swap is a few horsepower overall, this would be the use of "HO"/EFI heads (assuming you don't already have them) and the swap to 1992 to 1994 3100 (not 3.1) rockers, since they are stamped steel 1.6:1 rockers. Other parts will have ZERO gain, assuming that what you have is already in proper running condition.
So in the end if you simply want to twist some wrenches on your car, do it, but don't do it under the guise of gaining performance.
Trust us when we tell you its a waste. But if you just wanna wrench the car, everything above is about all the answers you need.
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From: NJ
Car: 90 formula, 89 formula 350 vert
Engine: 305, 355
Transmission: T5, t56
Axle/Gears: 3:45 9 bolt, 8.8 3:73
Re: Old school forum guys... upgrade path for stock carb early 2.8?
If you want to wrench on the car I would focus on revamping the suspension so when the v8 swap happens, your car will drive a lot nicer. Jmo. If your dead set on working with your existing 2.8 that's cool to, as long as your having fun that's all that matters. Make sure you make some kind of thread though, I'd defiantly follow.
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